#109: The Future Of Meat with Olivia Fox Cabane [Industry Spotlight: Alternative Protien]

#109: The Future Of Meat with Olivia Fox Cabane [Industry Spotlight: Alternative Protien]

Is alternative meat the future of food?

In today’s episode, we are chatting with Olivia Fox Cabane, a best selling author, public speaker, and co-founder of Kindearth.Tech. Olivia is known as the author of The Charisma Myth and her upcoming release, The Genius Myth. She has taught leadership, innovation, genius, and charisma at Harvard, Yale, MIT, and the United Nations. She previously worked as a columnist for Forbes and The Huffington Post, and has been featured in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

In this episode, we chat about the charisma and genius myths, the alternative meat industry, and cell agriculture. We’ll also talk more about Olivia’s definition of meat, the issues the industry faces, and the future of alternative meat.

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Follow Hala on ClubHouse: @halataha

Check out our website to meet the team, view show notes and transcripts: www.youngandprofiting.com

Timestamps:

03:50 – Olivia’s Transition from Author Into the Alternative Meat Industry

06:31 – How Charisma Myth, Genius Myth, and Alternative Protein are Related

09:15 – What Are Alternative Protein Maps?

13:05 – How Big is the Alternative Protein Industry?

14:42 – Olivia’s Definition of Meat

16:12 – What Does Cell Agriculture Look Like?

18:40 – The Arguments Against Cell Agriculture

22:38 – Agriculture Isn’t a Revolution of Food, It’s the Logical Evolution of Food

24:42

– The Global Protein Crisis

26:58 – Why Gen Z Will Get People to Stop Eating Meat

31:25

– Why Gen Z & Millennials Are More Open to Cell-Based Meat

34:50 – The Barriers of the Industry

37:12 – What is the Scope of the Industry?

44:04 – Where Can People Learn More About Cell Agriculture?

49:51 – Olivia’s Perspective on Using Bugs for Protein

51:10 – What is the Genius Myth?

53:13 – Olivia’s Message to the World

56:09 – Olivia’s Secret to Profiting in Life

Mentioned in the Episode:

Olivia’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ofc/

Olivia’s Website: https://www.askolivia.com/

Alternative Protein Maps: https://newprotein.org/

Kindearth.Tech: https://www.kindearth.tech/

The Good Food Institute: https://gfi.org/

#109: The Future Of Meat with Olivia Fox Cabane [Industry Spotlight: Alternative Protien]

[00:00:00] Hala Taha: [00:00:00] You're listening to YAP young and profiting podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Hala Taha, and on young and profiting podcast, we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life.

No matter your age, profession, or industry, there's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guests. By doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex FBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs,

and best-selling authors. Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain, influence the art of entrepreneurship and more if you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here. At young [00:01:00] and profiting podcast this week on YAP. We're chatting with Olivia Fox Cabane, a bestselling author, public speaker, and co-founder. Olivia is super well known for her breakout book, The Charisma Myth , which I used to be obsessed with back in 2012, 2013.

And I must've listened to it about five times. It's so funny how I went from listening to her and idolizing her to now interviewing her and texting her frequently. That's the power of podcasting. In fact, this is the first interview Olivia has taken in two years and she says, it's the last one she's going to take until her new book, The Genius Myth comes out in 2022.

I feel so honored to have this opportunity. Olivia has taught leadership, innovation, genius, and charisma at Harvard, Yale, MIT, and the United Nations. She previously worked as a columnist for Forbes and The Huffington Post and has been featured in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. These days, Olivia spends her time working on saving the world and she's thought leader on climate and [00:02:00] environmental sustainability, alternative protein and impact investing within the food industry.

She's also the current chair of the International Alliance for Alternative Protein and the co-founder of kindearth.tech. In our conversation, we actually won't talk much about charisma and you'll find out why in the episode instead, we'll discuss about an exciting new space, full of opportunity, the alternative meat industry and cellular agriculture.

We'll also talk more about Olivia's definition of meat, the issues this new industry faces when it comes to scaling to the masses and so much more. Hey Olivia! Welcome to young and profiting podcast.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:02:40] Thanks.

It's such a pleasure to be here.

Hala Taha: [00:02:43] I am so excited to talk with you, to give my listeners some background.

I've been trying to interview Olivia for over two years. I was a huge fan of her book, The Charisma Myth, which came out in 2012. It was like the biggest book of the year. Everybody read that book. If you're into [00:03:00] self-improvement, she became super famous for that. She had a huge Ted Talk. I feel like it was one of the most popular Ted Talks ever.

And I've been trying to interview her since then. And it's been a lot of back and forth. And then finally, I've been able to get Olivia on the line. I'm so excited, but we're not talking about charisma. We're not going to be talking about charisma. All, maybe my last question might be on charisma.

We're going to be talking about the alternative meat industry and it's very exciting. The future of food, you are really like, leading the forefront. You're one of the main players right now. So definitely want to pick your brain on that. But first I want to understand how you went from best-selling author all about charisma to alternative meats, leadership.

How did that happen?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:03:47] I think it really stems from the fact that as I now know, and I learned this maybe two years ago, I have Asperger's, which if only I known 30 bloody years ago, my life would have been so much easier. [00:04:00] But what this means for me is that I grew up in Paris, half French, half American, half Jewish, half Protestant, all wrong for Paris.

Trust me on that. And A, I didn't fit in, but B it's always been like obsessively drawn to reduce the suffering of others. And it was just a matter of what was the biggest suffering I knew at the time. So when I was a kid that was animal testing, so that's what I was working against. Then I learned about child sex trafficking.

And so that was my focus for a couple of years. Then I discovered genocide. So it gets where I was focusing on. Then that was, it was at the worst of door four. And then I learned about animal factory farming and everything else paled in comparison, the numbers are just staggering. So for me, it's always a question of what will reduce the most suffering for the greatest number of sentient beings.

And. What I'm hoping is that there isn't a parallel universe because my God, I've got enough to worry about [00:05:00] with one planet. Thank you very much. And I'm hoping that factory farming is the worst suffering I'll ever encounter. Cause otherwise we're in really deep trouble. So it wasn't so much a question of going from charisma to alternative meat so much as going from one disaster to another, looking for the greatest amount of suffering where I could have the greatest impact.

And it's more transition from charisma to genius in the sense that I like when I was 18, I looked around myself and said, all right, I got two choices either. I can exert myself to a desert island or I can learn how to make this whole human thing work. And I chose option two for the moment. I'm still keeping the desert island option open.

Trust me. But so I, I had to learn how to figure this human thing out. That was charisma, it's the classic people said it was black box. Can't learn. I looked at it, took it apart. It planted others moved on goodbye. Now it's the same thing for genius. So now we find know which part of the brain is responsible for all of that.

And here's what it is. You say it works have fun. Goodbye. Sorry. That was a pretty long [00:06:00] winded way of answering your question to have answered a question at all. And I can try to give you a shorter answer to.

Hala Taha: [00:06:05] No, it's fine. I'd love to hear about, so just to give my listeners some context, you're talking about The Genius Myth, which is your new book coming out.

And I think a year or two, it's coming out in a while. So help us understand how this all is related because you're doing so many different things. You've got charisma myth, genius myth, alternative protein. How is it all related?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:06:25] In a sense, the two are separate. Everything that's alternative protein related is, or at least started as my, the pro bono side of my life, which usually takes up between one quarter.

And one third of my time, The Genius Myth, wasn't a sense a logical extension of The Charisma Myth with charisma, we were looking at a complete black box that people were certain was innate magic you have it, you don't. Turns out no, it's learned behavior. With genius, same thing. People assume that either you're a genius or you're not.

No, it turns out that there was a specific part of your brain. We finally know which part of the human brain is responsible for all [00:07:00] human genius, innovation source of inspiration, what have you. And this is the first time that it will be explained from a practical angle. I E most, even most neuroscientists, if you tell them about the default mode network, they wouldn't did never have heard of it.

Okay. The default mode network, this is the part of your brain that's responsible for all genius use the. Absolutely bloody marvelous thing. You can't be born without it. You are literally a genius by default. The only difference with okay, fine. There's a few more differences between most of us in Einstein, but the main difference really is how good of an access you have to that genius engine inside your brain and how good of a shape and sin, and you know how to get the most out of it.

But I can promise you that every single human being, if you can walk, talk, and breathe, you've got of genius engine inside your brain.

Hala Taha: [00:07:54] So that's amazing that we all have a little bit of genius inside of us. And once that book comes out, I [00:08:00] definitely want you back on the show. Hopefully you're doing interviews again.

We were talking offline and Olivia told me this is her last interview for the next two years. So lucky me, I'm very excited about that opportunity. And Olivia, by the way, I know you're in a very remote location. So your internet is cutting a little bit in and out, but we're going to be catching a local copy anyway.

So I think the interview will be fine, but just know that there's a little bit of a delay. So let's focus this interview on alternative meats and cell ag. And then two years from now, when you got your book out and you're ready to do interviews, I'm going to pick your brain on genius myth and you have to promise me you'll come back.

Okay. So let's start with landscape. Let's start with the landscape of the industry. So you've been doing something called alternative protein maps, and they've been changing so fast. I've noticed you've put out so many different iterations of them. So talk to us about why you decided to start these protein maps essentially for my listeners.

So you guys have a visual, it's a big poster with lots of different logos and it keeps getting bigger and [00:09:00] bigger. So talk to us about how fast this industry is growing and why you decided to put out these maps.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:09:06] So the maps suggested to me by really good friend, who's the founder of moon express and actually the guy who created being and sold it to Microsoft.

Absolutely brilliant guy. When we were talking about, all right, did The Charisma Myth. I now want to give a couple of years entirely pro bono. This is currently the greatest source of suffering. Plus it has the greatest impact on climate change. What's the biggest way to impact it? And I was all like, okay, let me focus on policy.

I'm going to work with nonprofits. And he, because have I mentioned, he has really, and told me, hang on, tell me more about that lab grown meat. You showed me on this little piece of paper over there. Cause I think that if you're going to have a real measurable impact, it's not gonna be through non-profit or through government action.

It's going to be through business and he suggested the maps as a way to understand the industry. This is 2018. The Game Changers hadn't yet come out. If any of [00:10:00] your audiences not seen the James Cameron documentary, The Game Changers have you been living under a rock? Go watch it. It'll blow your mind.

It is now the number one most watched documentary of all time on any platform you name it. It's brilliant. At that time, when people thought alternative meat, they usually thought, boca burgers or something like that now, rather than give you the slow process. I want to tell you what we are now, and you have to realize how that right now, as in already, now I swear to God, this is already real.

We have currently lab grown or cell base for a bluefin tuna, wagyu beef, kobe beef, obviously sturgeon horse, alpaca sheep, rabbit, antelope, kangaroo, and I'm missing quite a few of them. All of these meats can be grown molecularly identical to their natural counterparts in clean factory setting.

So that's still nothing. Believe it or not because that's [00:11:00] just creating meat in a lab. Fine. The thing that's really mind blowing is what the air protein people are doing. And what they're doing is they're literally creating food from thin air or rather they're growing protein and car exhaust. So they're able to take industrial emissions like car exhaust, like direct factory emissions and turn them into feed flavoring, amino acids, oil, fats, fertilizer, biopolymers, petroleum, and I'm missing them.

But a lot of things. So theoretically, you could take an entire city, jettison it into space and would be completely self-sustained, which is why we were originally looking at Dubai for the first world space accelerator, and then COVID hit and all of that. But that's what we're looking at. Fear radically.

There's one company. For example, Kiverdi run by a brilliant woman called Lisa Dyson. They could hypothetically take a scientific magic wand and make entire landfills disappear. So you can take a city state the size of Dubai jettison and into space, and it would be [00:12:00] completely self-sustained. So that's what alternative protein and essentially cell-based agriculture is today.

It's not just orbital farms. It's not just being able to grow meat up aboard the ISS, which is happening. The international space station is already happening. It's also really a, you can take any country and if there's enough investment, if the government is willing to invest enough, you could turn any country into the highest producer of food in the world.

Theoretically speaking.

Hala Taha: [00:12:27] This is like crazy because nobody talks about this, right? Nobody's talking about this yet. Like you're at this like forefront of this information, it's still getting disseminated. People don't know what's going on. And so I want to understand how many players are in this space right now.

I know there's plant-based players or cell ag players. There's VC people involved, like how big is this space? How big is the economic opportunity in the industry in general right now?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:12:54] Okay. So if you're wonderful tech, people can show 'em the 1.0 of the [00:13:00] map and compare it with V 2.4, it's going to blow your mind and you have to realize that's just one year that's January, 2018 versus January 2019.

If you look at January 2021, we've now had to move to five maps because listen, I spent some time at Steinbeck Stanford student enterprise accelerator. And after a while my co-author Jude, and I stopped telling kids to focus on social media and told them, listen, screw social media. You want to be a successful entrepreneurs.

Alternate protein is where it's at because I have never seen. And this is from one who spent a couple of years living at the heart of Silicon Valley. I have never seen so much investment back in 2018, especially for every one company looking for funding. There were four to five VCs trying to fund it. So COVID has changed things somewhat.

Nonetheless, there was a reason why Bill Gates, Richard Branson, it's all of the big funders are throwing money at alternative protein. You're [00:14:00] right. There's both cell based and plant-based big difference. Cell-based literally it's molecular cell to cell identical to an animal product. Plant based it's of course made with plants or fungi.

Hala Taha: [00:14:13] So I want to set some foundation for my listeners. I want to talk about the definition of meat, because I think the definition of meat keeps changing. We used to think meat had to be alive. It no longer has to be alive. So tell us about your, what is your definition of meat?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:14:30] If you want to take the biblical definition or you can even take some 14th century definitions, meat has always been literally the meat of the matter.

I eat the heart of something and the meat of nuts is quite literally mentioned in the Bible. It is mentioned in 14th century recipe and same way that milk when Scott Gottlieb bless his cotton socks, the FDA former commissioner said an element cap, lactate. Guess what? That's not what the people in the middle ages thought [00:15:00] not Milts have been called milks for many hundreds of years.

I think the easiest definition, and I understand that lobbyists will have a problem with this, but for me, meat is center of the plate protein. The thing is, as time goes on, the source is going to become less and less important. When we're at the point, when we're creating full cuts of chicken out of thin air and it's molecularly identical molecule for molecule to what you would actually get off the back of a cow, the only difference being that animal agriculture creates, what is it?

40% of the total greenhouse gas emissions. Whereas of course plant-based, and cell-based cut that by a factor of quintillions.

Hala Taha: [00:15:43] And so help me visualize what cell agriculture looks like. Cause like you said, everything's in a lab right now for the most part. Is it a factory? Is it a farm? What does cell ag look like mass produced.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:15:58] Yeah. Scale is always the biggest [00:16:00] challenge and it will always be, if you're looking specifically at cell ag cellular agriculture than it is a factory setting, it looks like a lab now, but it's just going to look like a giant lab slash factory. That's the reason why it is almost guaranteed to be able to undercut animal agriculture in price at some point, because animals are insanely inefficient.

If you look at everything that you have to put into an animal in order to get one pound of beef, it's actually Winston Churchill, who in like the thirties, 1932, I think said one day we will find it absolutely insane to grow an entire chicken. When all we want is the chicken breast. Guess what? In a clean factory setting, not only can you grow the chicken breast, but also, and I'm sorry, this is going to shock some of your listeners, but in most countries in the world, specifically in the US, meat is allowed to have a certain percentage allowed by the FDA to have a certain percentage of feces and

human byproducts. I eat hair, nails, skin in it and be sold. So that is again,  legal. [00:17:00] You can literally have crap in your meat and there's a certain percentage of that. And rat poison also on rats also, that wouldn't happen. So the reason it was originally called clean meat is of course it's grown in a sterile environment.

Then the meat lobby, wasn't too happy about the name, clean meat, because then of course it made people wonder, what do you mean? Is normal meat dirty? Yes it is, but they didn't exactly want the focus beyond that. So clean factory setting and think of when you only need to buy one cell, it can be a really expensive cell.

That's why kobe beef is, too cheap and too basic. Now they're moving onto wagyu beef and that's what they're already selling in Singapore. It's on the market. It's now it's not 10 years from now. A group of teenagers ate at a restaurant in Singapore a couple of weeks ago.

Hala Taha: [00:17:47] That's insane. It's insane that this is already available.

And I saw that Singapore is like, leading the way in terms of allowing this kind of new meat. Now it sounds like on the [00:18:00] surface, considering how bad regular meat is for the environment and how morally wrong it is, to kill animals and how a lot of people feel that way, but there's still some people who are against this and they feel like ethically, it's wrong, spiritually,

it's wrong. Talk to us about some of the arguments against cell agriculture and maybe, your perspective on that.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:18:23] Let's get started first of all, GMOs. So I I love my fellow activists and vegans very much, but my God, we've got to wake up on GMOs. Listen, we have been genetically modifying organisms ever since we created the first hybrid, the very first guy who a couple thousand years ago, across the first wild cherry with the first prune tree was making a genetically modified organism.

So let's get that out on the table. There is no such thing as natural chickens, and I promise you as someone who raises them are anything but natural they're human created. So if you're looking from a quote unquote natural perspective, first of [00:19:00] all, the meat that is produced or the protein, the anything that's produced in those settings is molecule by molecule identical.

Now here's a problem. Red meat and white meat are actually genuinely not good for you. The FDA has finally accepted that. It's going to be putting a cancer warning label on cheese. You're going to see that come out in the next year or two red meat and white meat is going to come out at some point. At the moment we're purely in proof of concept mode, so the meat that has to be made, has got to be perfectly, completely molecule by molecule identical, with all the good stuff and all the bad stuff.

In five years, once humanity has woken up and realized that this is possible, then we can remove all the terrible shit from meat. And then you can have meat. That's actually genuinely healthy for you. In addition to tasting , really good. The issue that people have with regards to this is still exploiting animals, because this is taking one self from them bullshit.

Anyone who has ever seen the inside of a factory farm and tells me that it's still wrong to take one [00:20:00] cell from an animal when it can save multiple. And I wish I were kidding, but trillions of chickens every year, I would like to slap them up, wake them up and smell the coffee. It's not just that this could put such a dent in the fight against climate change because again, 40% of greenhouse gas emissions, it's also because

you we've seen with COVID now. The circumstances in which all too often, undocumented immigrants are forced in horrific conditions to work in meat factories. That would be gone. But even beyond that, there's in the plant-based world, for example, there are certain algae protein cultivation methods where the crop literally doubles in size every 48 hours.

Find me another crop that grows this big. This could genuinely, I'm not kidding. I actually asked the professor who was in charge of it. And he said, are you saying that in the right circumstances, theoretically with enough money , this could end world hunger. And he was like, Yeah, technically a good.

[00:21:00] Sorry, send me the objections again. Cause I'd like to hear them.

Hala Taha: [00:21:03] I heard some objections that it keeps me on a pedestal because the basis of eating meat is that humans are superior to animals. And because we are basically creating meats that it just like pushes that further that agenda further in terms of that, like meat and humans are superior than animals because we're still eating

meat.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:21:26] Listen, meat is a status product. If you want to go fight that good luck, more power to you. That's a great thing. But I think that if the US,Europe, et cetera, I have spent the past couple of centuries now promoting meat as the ultimate status symbol, we can't then turn around and say now could the rest of the world please avoid all of that.

Meat is going to be a status symbol, whether we like it or not. We might as well, supply meat that is less harmful in every possible way, but we're not going to race the demand. So we better [00:22:00] make a better supply.

Hala Taha: [00:22:01] Your co-founder Ira, she once said that agriculture is not a revolution of food, but the logical evolution of food.

So why do you think she said that? Why is it an evolution and not a revolution?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:22:15] So you're

on, I feel slightly differently about this. You're his father, if you don't mind, the Elon is actually the guy who came up with the practical way of creating clean meat. And it's his patents that Doc Tetrick bought to create the world's first lab garden burger in 2013.

So urines kind of the keeper of the flame. And her perspective is that agriculture was she's in favor, I'm personally against. But then on the other hand, I think the humanity is a plague of pestilence and the worst thing to ever have happened to this planet, every other human being on it, you relax humans.

So you're looking at two co-founders with slightly different views of  how to approach the world. And from her perspective, cell lag is the [00:23:00] logical evolution because this finally genuinely makes the most of our scientific knowledge. Agriculture at the moment is one of the most inefficient and frankly, stupid ways we have of creating food.

The subsidy issue with farmers being paid really millions to dump milk. That's just one example because it's so common in the west. Where there are people being paid to trash, a product that could feed other people who are hungry and the money that has been paid to those people to trash the product could also be it's crazy.

So our agricultural system is profoundly broken. Our farming system is worse. And yeah, this is a logical evolution for agriculture. Now, personally, I would prefer it. If you could just, wave one, a little magic wand and get rid of humanity altogether, get rid of the humans, all the problems go away.

Unfortunately, I don't yet have a good way to do that. So in the meantime, I'll try to minimize the impact of humans as much as possible.

Hala Taha: [00:23:57] I love that. I love how passionate you are. So [00:24:00] something I heard you say before is that you think that there's going to be a global protein crisis and you anticipate that this is going to happen in the future.

So why do you think we're going to have a global protein crisis? What do you see coming up?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:24:15] No credit whatsoever to me the data is out it's, well-known, we're not ready to feed 9 billion people and we're especially not ready to feed 9 billion people who each of them think that they need more protein than they actually do.

Almost all of us in the developed world consume far more protein than is good for us. And again, watch The Game Changers. It will bloody well blow your mind, but meat consumption is continuously rising and we're already past any sustainable point for meat. Now, what's really interesting to see if you look at some of the most advanced countries in the world, Finland, which has one of the,

frankly, most events societies in terms of education, healthcare, you name it, they've passed peak meat consumption, and Finland is starting to decrease for the first time. [00:25:00] So we can only hope that this will be the case for other Western countries, but in the meantime, China, India, the brick country, they're all ready to get their meat now.

And again, since the west has been leading the charge on this, we can't exactly say fine. We had a fun time, gobbling meat and screwing up the environment, but you can't now because it's too late. So there is a protein crisis it's here already. And either we find a way to supply the protein in a way that does not finish bringing about complete climate chaos or worse crude.

Hala Taha: [00:25:41] So let's talk about how much people are eating meat. I'm going to rattle off some stats here. The share of Americans who call themselves vegan or vegetarian has not increased in 20 years. And the 1970s, the typical American ate about 120 pounds of meat each year. In the 1990s, she ate [00:26:00] 130 pounds of meat

each year. Today she eats over 140 pounds or 2.5 pounds a week, which is a record high. So Americans at least are eating more meat than ever. Let's talk about how we're going to convince people to stop eating meat. I know you're of the perspective that gen Z is going to lead the way. Why do you believe that is true?

Why do you think the younger generation is going to have an easier time eating cell agriculture?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:26:28] Cause they're awesome. I'm a big fan of gen Z. Listen, millennials. I'm very glad you're here. You're lovely. But man, gen Z they're fabulous. So depending on who you listen to gen Z is nine to 95 ish to 2012 ish.

Millinnials depending on who you listen to. It's 1981 to two, 1997. First of all, there, there is a one number that's thrown around. I don't know how accurate it is, but apparently one American eats as much in a year as 32 Kenyans. The amount of food that America wastes, it [00:27:00] feeds several countries. Yes.

So there's a couple of differences. Listen, baby boomers. Sorry for anyone who's listening are spoiled brats. And the problem is that they were raised with the mentality of, if you work hard enough, you can and should and will get a perfect life. Millennials your generation is the the last generation that was raised with still the apparent promise of perfection.

You still, if you do the right things, work hard enough, have the right airbrushing and you to have Kim Kardashians, a prep team can look like the glossy cover of Cosmo that changed. And I heard a really interesting theory that it's because millennials are the kids of boomers and boomers again, last generation.

That was where they had a better standard of living than their parents, whereas gen Z or the kids are gen X and mentality was the world is crude. There's nothing we can do about it. And they raised their kids. Who now gen Z are saying the world is [00:28:00] screwed, but thank heavens.

They're saying, and there's only us to do something about it. So if you look at the trifecta, the holy trifecta for food buyers up until now, it's been price, taste, convenience. That's the three elements. Gen Z has flipped that on its head. All of a sudden price taste and convenience have got to compete with ethics, with sustainability and the number one value for gen Z.

Number one of vowels   is always transparency. Transparency is not something big food's a huge fan of. And so you look at the revolution that's happening right now in the food world. Everything's changing because of gen Z. And if you think gen Z is serious, you should gen alpha there's kids five years old who are telling their parents at the dinner table.

Sorry, I don't eat corpses. What's the parent going to say that is literally a dead animal on the table. It is a cadaver. The kid says I'm not as Omni. I don't eat corpses. It's hard to argue against and gen [00:29:00] Z. What's fabulous about them is that they're so idealism driven that they can't wait to try products of cellular agriculture because of the dramatic change is going to have for the people, the planet, the animals, frankly, most of us, aren't trying to convert people to veganism.

I'm not vegan my chickens lay eggs. I eat the eggs and the percentage of Americans who are, if you can, are probably not going to grow that's okay. Impossible burger and beyond meat, they weren't focused on vegans. They were focused on meat eaters. That's the revolution. And the reason that big meat is not trying to get as scared as big dairy is because the same way that since 1970s Americans are drinking one fourth, less milk than they used to.

In the same way plant-based foods have grown by what was it? 538% during the pandemic, something insane. So the quick [00:30:00] answer is Jensey rocks. They care about the planet more than they care about money in many cases. And for the first time plant-based products are tastes close to tastes identical with meat products.

So when taste is no longer an issue and health is on the side of plant based, there's very little left aside from price and price is not going to be an advantage. The meat industry has much

longer.

Hala Taha: [00:30:29] So I know that you also have the perspective that gen Z and millennials are more open to cell-based meat because they're used to like test tube babies, and some of them were testing babies themselves.

And so there's no weird thing with that. Tell us about that.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:30:45] The question I usually ask boomers is when's the last time you heard anyone use the phrase attest to baby, and it's been a while because these days IVF is such a normal part of life, that it would feel as weird to call an IVF, born kid, a [00:31:00] fake human.

That is how weird and not that long, it will be to call meat grown out of a test tube in a lab, fake meat. Most millennials and gen Zs will have a problem with life coming out of the lab because many of them and their friends came out of a lab. So when you've grown up with the Avengers, life being born under laboratory experimental conditions, isn't that unusual.

And for them also, I think the differences is that, none of the gen Z, no gen Z with that I've ever met is under any illusion that we can keep going the way we are. There is not a single gen Z that I've ever met that says we're doing just fine. Every single one of them knows that it's going to take a drastic change and they're ready for it.

So in a way, gen Z for me is more in common with the greatest generation, the one that fought World War II than they have with any previous generation, because that's the size and scope of the problem they're facing. It's a worldwide [00:32:00] problem.

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What are some of the obstacles that you know, these companies are going to face as they try to, mass produce.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:34:07] The first and biggest one, let's be honest, it's regulation, active social, usually absolute crap at lobbying. And thankfully they're finally starting to get their act together. And so now the cell based world and the plant-based world both have their own lobbying organizations, but the first one biggest barrier is always going to be regulation.

Second biggest barrier is probably going to be subsidies, but after that, yes, it's size scale scope. All of the actual technical challenges plant-based is going to be solved so much faster with plant-based. I can never remember see Ethan Brown, Pat Brown. One of the Browns, whoever is started impossible. I think it's Pat, he's aiming to undercut the price of conventional meat in less than five years.

So he wants beyond, sorry. He wants impossible burger to be cheaper than the cheapest possible crappiest White Castle's lighter in under [00:35:00] five years. With cell based, it's going to be a lot longer before it's price parody, because it's harder. This is where 3d printing plays an interesting role. 3d printing is really taking off and there's 3d printing of cell based, but also 3d printing of plant-based.

And with 3d printing, I don't know if it'll happen, but if they want to, China has the opportunity to at a single stroke, reduce their dependency on foreign pork imports greatly progressed towards their climate goals and become the leader in 3d printed protein, all in one go because no one does cheap manufacturing better than China.

So depending on whether the Chinese government wants to get into that or not, they may speed things up, but otherwise it depends who you ask, but five to 10 years, at least until it is affordable to a well-off consumer in the Western world. That's the [00:36:00] current estimation that being said, it's been moving Ellison five years ago.

No one would ever thought we'd be making food out of thin air. So who knows, honestly.

Hala Taha: [00:36:09] Let's talk about the breadth and scope of this space, because it's not just scientists who need to be working on this. What kind of skills does this industry need? What kind of companies are involved aside from just direct to consumer or business to consumer?

What's the scope of this industry?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:36:27] Really fascinating. Now let me pretend and talk as if your audience can see the slide. If you look at the industry overview of alternative protein, what you'll see is that. It's an astonishingly diverse coalition of stakeholders that's coming together. You've got the governments.

China is very into this Singapore smart as government. It's really a problem. Singapore government is way too smart for, I was going to say its own good, but no, for our own good. They already are so far ahead that [00:37:00] they're already invested in so many of the incubators that are working on this. That can create its own problem for innovation later on, but point being.

The smart governments are already onto this. Oh, by the way, as someone who grew up in France, guess which government is the most retrograde, the stupidest and most backwards, France, of course. The French minister of agriculture tweeted saying, you think this would be a hotel and I'm like, Jesus Christ. And this is why Frances   we'll never be a world player on the world stage again, like that's it.

But you also have big meat. The biggest funders of the cell-based ag is actually Tyson, JBS, PHW, because big meat, they're not better people than big dairy. They just have more money or more smarter people. And so we'll as big dairy is still trying to fight plant-based milk. Good luck on that one. Please show your audience the number of different milks we have because people still think there's like a handful.

We're up to 34 now, [00:38:00] including banana milk, Lotus blossom flower milk, pumpkin seed milk, et cetera, et cetera. And by the way, cell-based milk and breast milk, of course. The other really interesting thing is venture capitalists. And this is, I think what's unusual celebrity investors. So whether it's ultra high net worth individuals, interestingly and fascinatingly, for some reason, the heirs of family fortunes are really into this.

They've got a strong, they tend to have a strong sense of family responsibility. And so you'll find a lot of successful entrepreneurs, the founder of Twitch, for example, founders of Reddit, you'll get a lot of the actors. And what's really interesting is how genuinely passionate they are. It's really a nice marriage because the startups need the attention.

Now, the celebrities say that they have to be involved in some form of a sustainability, something it's Delia, if she will. And of course the public benefits. Sorry, [00:39:00] your question originally was what I have no idea already.

Hala Taha: [00:39:04] It was what kind of jobs are involved in this like marketing engineers?

It's not just scientists, it's all different kinds of people and all different types of companies, that need to be involved.  

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:39:14] Yes.

The scientists it's obvious, but we really need as engineers. We badly need people who are experts in automation. So software hardware, you name it. We've got plenty of a tissue culture engineer though, by the way, if you want a career where you're guaranteed a job, go for tissue engineering, cellular engineering, all of that, you will be hired before you even get your diploma.

It's crazy. A plant-based is going to make a big difference the world, and that's fine. That's lovely syllabus. It's going to make an equally big difference the world. That's fine. That's lovely. But neither of these can have even the king of the impact that the fun guide world could have. And the problem is that fun guy has a terrible PR image in the US.

I love my fellow [00:40:00] Americans really? I do, but when you say the word fungus and American, they usually think tonal fungus, right? Because Americans have no culinary history of mush. They have no culinary history whatsoever. Sorry. I'm French, what you have to realize is what we're making with plants and with algae, for example, out of the plants we know is already stunning.

We're making silk out of algae. We're making pigments paint, pharmaceuticals, cosmetic. It's really impressive, but that's one part of the plant kingdom, fungi aren't entire bloody kingdom, all to themselves of which we've barely scratched the surface. Fun guy can replace a common break. Jeffery starters, you can grow tables, chairs, conference, room furniture out of

mushrooms, Eco Veta, for example, Eco Veta design, there have gorgeous lampshades and everything eventually, and not too long, you will literally be able to grow your own house out of mushrooms. Talk about an infinitely renewable resource. Like the construction industry is going to be [00:41:00] turned on its head, but that's just construction in food from I can solve pretty much anything.

All the scaffolding problems that silver agriculture has enter fund guy. Fund guys, what is helping us finally get the exact taste of meat that we need from non-meat plant-based products? The biggest revolution potentially from fund is going to be in fashion because leather silk cashmere, the cashmere was amazing.

Every possible textile, really that I felt the leather was just stunning made from fungi and at a speed and for a price that's going to leave traditional leather, so far behind, because you don't need to grow an animal anymore. All you need is a basement. And at the same time, some guys also the most democratically, anyone can start a fungi factory in their cellar.

There's I saw through no he's not seven year old anymore. He must be 11 now. Kid in Detroit, who started a mushroom farm in his basement and is now employing, I believe a dozen people [00:42:00] and has a, he can't hire fast enough. That's one of the reasons there's so many mushroom kidpreneurs and that's where I see where millions could really come into play.

Gen Z isn't as interested in marketing and PR and the appearance. Listen, if millennials can take over the fungi world, fix the PR problem, you could fix climate change significantly, put a dent in world hunger, cut the negative size of the fashion industry. By at least half revolutionize, the construction industry also solve a lot of big pharma's problems as well as let me see environmental remediation.

Oh. And the ocean plastics. Yeah. Please take over a fund guy. We need your help badly.

Hala Taha: [00:42:47] It's so crazy. I've heard you say before that, like mushrooms can basically save the world and it's so crazy to just hear you talk about this. And like I said, I don't, I've never heard about this before you it's not really mainstream at all.

So where can people [00:43:00] learn more about fungi, mushrooms, cell ag? What are the companies that we should know their names of and start to, I guess they're all private now, but once they go public invest in, like, where should we go learn more about this?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:43:14] Okay. So first of all, I should have invested in beyond the minute they hit the market and honest to goodness, I literally wasn't paying attention to that week.

And so by the time I realized that, yeah, this was the week they went public. It was too late. So don't necessarily take any investment advice from me. But what I can tell you is the companies are making the most extraordinary products. So in fungi, the one that's going to blow your freaking mind is Ecovative.

I will. If she sent me an email I'll send you all the links to all the companies. You're also going to see them on the maps. Ecovative already makes not just that. They now have had to split the companies because people are so ignorant of just how much I can do that. They weren't people weren't understanding that [00:44:00] the same source from guy could make not just furniture, but also pigments food, et cetera.

So they split into several companies now. So Ecovative is where you're going to find all the furniture. You'll want to head to bolt threads for everything. That's my psyllium leather. Oh, this is the other thing. Oh man. I think it's bolt. So another thing that we can make in the lab is of course ivory. So elephant and rhino horn, for example, right?

Vietnamese government genius idea. Just brilliant. So apparently in Vietnam, big problem with illegal rhino horn trade because traditional medicine, right? The Vietnamese government blessed them, came up with the idea of buying as much as they could have. As soon as it's available the lab grown rhino horn and flooding the black market with it.

So then once they announced the population, you're welcome, still buy black market rhino horns, just, you won't be able to know cause molecules, molecule, if it was from a real rhino or grown in the lab, there goes a lot [00:45:00] of the potency. That's just a brilliant move. And imagine if we can do that with the rhino horns, the elephant tusks, because we can replicate anything.

So bolt threads is great to learn about a lot of the ivory leather. I'm pretty sure they're doing the spider silk and Kashmir lab grown Kashmere. The 3d printed at the best company to look up right now is Nova Meat  Nova and then Meat they're doing 3d printed plant-based meat. One thing too, I think that is absolutely stunning.

Is what at south by Southwest when, all right. You know what? Imagine this 20 years from now, you wake up in the morning, you go down to the breakfast room, you put your index finger, you scattered on the family food, 3d printer, and it prints for you. Hot piping, hot, the exact breakfast. You want eggs, bacon, everything is being grown right there [00:46:00] in your own personal machine.

Cause by the way, we have consumer size meat groin machines already, but also it will have put every single supplement and medication that you ever need to take. So the D H E omega three, six, 12, whatevers, you need never take another pill in your life again. So hopefully there'll be your breakfast someday.

Nova Meats, that's what they're working on. If you want the single most advanced companies in the entire world, that would be air protein, literally air protein.com. They're the ones who were creating chicken out of thin air. And their sister company ConvertI is the one that can wave a magic wand and have entirely landfield disappear.

I don't know if it's public yet. I'm about to say something and you're welcome to put it out. I just don't know if the website is available to the public, but the project that we were working on pre COVID was the world's first space food accelerator. So why [00:47:00] was it called the first space food accelerator, honestly marketing.

I personally, we don't give a crap about space. Have I mentioned that I'm not a fan of humanity? I don't think we should be spreading it anywhere else. However NASA is a big fan of spreading humanity all over the place. And as it so happens, cellular agriculture is genuinely made for space because cell ag grows anaerobically.

So in fact, orbital farms are an even better medium for growing food. As far as cell ag is concerned than the earth. So for me, it was more question of great NASA is into this all the big billionaires, want to fund space, traveling to this I'm into the science that comes out of it. And so this was the world's first space food accelerator was going to be based in the UAE.

We had an official discriminatory hiring policy in three steps. This is what it was Zoe. So step one. This is for the staff, not for the startups. Step one, is there a GCC Gulf council [00:48:00] country woman qualified and available for the job? Step two, is there a middle Eastern MENA, middle Eastern north Africa woman qualifying available for the job? Step three, bloody hell,

is there any woman qualified, available for the job? Step four, fine now the men can apply. So as far as the staff went, including the security detail, we were very clear that we were going to hire every single woman we could get our hands on in the UAE, which is one of the reasons that a couple of the various Emirates were quite interested in having us come because we were going to hire

almost every, some tissue page, female cell tissue, PG engineer. They could give us in one go.

Hala Taha: [00:48:43] I have one more question about meat. I want to talk about crickets because that's the thing that people keep talking about is this like cricket option for meat. What's your perspective on bugs and using bugs for protein.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:48:56] Okay. If you're looking from an ethical standpoint, the problem of course [00:49:00] is, are our bugs sentient. And I don't want to worry anyone, but crickets have been shown to react to Prozac, which means that they can feel certain emotions that are then impacted by Prozac, which is not a great sign. If you want to believe that they're not sentient, but even more than that. Listen, bugs

aren't going to take off in the west. You can try all you want, but I think it's going to be just like the the digital gap. How Africa is right over landlines and went straight to cell phones. I don't think we're going to go via bugs. I really do think that it's going to be a straight shot into cell ag because by the time bugs, even have the hint of a chance to be accepted as a protein source by then, if wagyu beef is affordable, what the hell are you going to eat some crickets?

If you can, get a ribeye steak printed in front of you.

Hala Taha: [00:49:48] All right. So let's skip over to genius myth. Great discussion on meats. Let's talk about The Genius  Myth. So like I said, you came out with The Charisma Myth back in 2012. It was one of the biggest books out. I think everybody [00:50:00] either listened or read that book at some point, if you were around in 2012.

So what's The Genius Myth? Why did you decide that you needed to write it? And what can people look forward to in terms of the takeaways for that book?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:50:13] Both books are pretty simple. The Charisma Myth in one sentence, charisma, it's not an eight. It can be learned. Curious how genius myth is pretty much the same thing.

Genius. It's well, genius it is innate. You do have the capacity and here's how to get the most out of it. In both cases, I like taking things that people say are unexplainable, unteachable, magical and incomprehensible, and then just taking them apart, figuring out. How they work, teaching others how to get the most out of them.

And then moving on The Charisma Myth, this please don't get out, leave it. And would you please people stop buying the damn book? It is more than 10 years old. It shouldn't still be the [00:51:00] Bible in the field. The science has got to be out of date by now. Someone should have written a better book. That's the reason why don't give interviews on it anymore because it's 10 years old so far.

Apparently no one has written an update, but someone please do The Genius Myth is going to be the first time that the brains genius engine, which is that part of the brain, which we now know is responsible for pretty much all human genius, innovation, inspiration, artistic creation, you name it. We finally know what it is, what it looks like, how it works well, more or less how you can get the most out of it, how you can screw it up.

And so The Genius Myth   has literally that, here's what she says inside your brain. Here's how you make it work well, here's how it doesn't work. Goodbye. There you go. That's The Genius Myth.

Hala Taha: [00:51:50] Awesome. I can't wait to pick your brain about that. The next time you come on young and profiting podcast, once that book is released to the public.

So this is your [00:52:00] last interview for two years. So hopefully, lots and lots of people will listen to this. Is there anything that you want people to know? What is your message to the world? You're not going to do another interview for the next two years. What is your message to the world?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:52:13] Okay.

Totally different. This is probably going to be weird, but cheese is what I want to talk about. The one thing that keeps most people back from going plant-based and when I say plant-based it's because that means mainly eating plants. That's why I don't say vegan, which is an ethical stance, but the main thing that keeps them from going plant-based, which is better for them, the environment, the everything you want is cheese.

And that's because traditionally plant-based cheese is crap. It's genuinely terrible. It's plastic fats. The thing has changed the most in the past two years. So if there's one message I could send out the world is guess what? Vegan cheese has arrived. It has forgive me matured and. [00:53:00] Now, thanks to precision fermentation.

You are getting cheese. That is, and I'm French. So I'm serious about this. You're getting cheese that is stunningly close to actual buddy demo, bear, Sonic tail hook, phone, you name it. And the most shocking part of this is that, do you know which nationality of all of the people on earth were the best at this, the country that are the best at making cheese?

The British are the best at making plant-based cheese. I do not know what happened. I honestly don't. Maybe they just wanted to embarrass us because God knows the French aren't on the plant-based train either. But if Jesus was holding you back from adopting a healthier lifestyle, I promise you that's where you should be looking in terms of food.

And actually, if you're looking at investing. Nope, if you look in investing, you should be investing in plant-based ice cream. Okay. If you're talking, investing, what big dairy should be really worried about. Isn't plant-based, as I said, we've got more than 30 different kinds of plant-based milk. [00:54:00] What's really going to put them out of business is micro flora because with micro flora, it's literally dairy molecules, just grown without the animals and the micro floor ice creams that are coming out.

If I remember correctly, when perfect day auction there's off, it went for a thousand dollars a pint, which obviously is just because novelty, but invest in a micro flora based ice cream company. That's probably where you'll get the fastest return. If you're looking at investments. I don't know if that was at all the message you wanted, but yeah, cheese and ice cream.

Hala Taha: [00:54:33] You know what all of this is just so interesting. You've been rattling off so many, just interesting facts, things that people don't think about often. So I really appreciate it. I think my listeners are going to really appreciate it. So everything that you said today is valuable. I just want you to understand that the last question I ask all my guests is what is your secret to profiting in life?

And this doesn't have to be financial. It can be, personal, like what is your secret to profiting in life? And [00:55:00] you are a very successful woman. You have, like I said, one of the biggest authors of our generation, what's your secret?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:55:07] I got a lot done early on and burnt out because of it. I think I had my first burnout having experience of, having more money than I knew what to do with more time more, everything you want at 25.

And the adventure of that is that once you bring it out at 25, a lot of the things that people spend time chasing whole less appeal for you. If there's one thing that has made my life measurably better. The past couple of decades, it really has been getting comfortable with who I am now.

Granted, I may have gone a bit too far in that direction. It says, no, I really don't give up. And that's a problem of not having anything to prove anymore, but had I, but known when I was in high school, just how much easier and better my life would have been. If I did not care what other people thought that [00:56:00] it was in fact the best way to have before I got married, I had a harem.

And if I had only known that the best way to get your own personal hair, I'm simply not care what boys thought about you. And then they'd all fall at your feet and same for business in many ways. So self-acceptance, I think really is it, and don't get me wrong. Self-acceptance is tough work, especially for those of us who are more comfortable in our heads.

You're going to have to meditate at some point, sorry. And for those of us who are more mind oriented, we tend to gravitate towards Vipassana, nice dry cognitive work of the mind, insight meditation, but you have to think of meditation as a toolbox and the same way you wouldn't use a screwdriver or a hammer for the same thing.

You shouldn't use Vipassana or Metta for the same purpose. People like you like me, all the overachievers, we don't need more intellectual insight. What we need is the messy, awkward, uncomfortable work of the heart and Metta and [00:57:00] METTA loving kindness meditation. Now don't get me wrong Metta  as a bitch.

I hate Metta. It's awful. It's bloody awful, but that. Is what got me the biggest and fastest transformations. Personally, if you look at the person I was pre my first Metta retreat and post different human being, and I'm going to horribly paraphrase. I think it was the RO who said, I could feel my soul growing like corn in the night.

And by God, it was painful. My first Vipassana meditation retreat, seventies, seven days of silence. No, it's not actually silent. There's way too much talking on a meditation retreat. Trust me about this. But the seven days are still in silence and solitude. Really? Not that much of a problem. Seven days of Metta.

I wasn't sure I was going to survive because that is work. I wasn't ready for.

Hala Taha: [00:57:48] I was going to say what was that retreat? Say that slower and explain to us what this retreat was.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [00:57:53] So I went on my first meditation retreat when I was 22 or [00:58:00] 23, I think. And listen, it was a life-changing experience.

There aren't that many things of which I would say this will change your life. I promise you that a someday meditation retreat will, even if it's built as a silent meditation retreat, usually there's at least two periods per day of times, the teacher, when there's Q and A's. So for me, it was far too noisy and it might be a silent meditation retreat, but you're surrounded with like at least 30 people.

So there's lots of humans, a real silent retreat. Let me put it this way. My teacher was a Rabbi David Cooper who wrote God is a Verb, was a Jewish Rabbi who taught Buddhist meditation in a Catholic convent. And he doesn't believe in God didn't believe in God. What he asked for his 60th birthday is called a dark retreat.

So a dark retreat is when you are alone in a cell with not light, not sound. [00:59:00] No human contact, nothing. Your food is delivered by a special chutes that not one photon of light or sound will come through. And so he said, it's really interesting because after a couple of days with nothing for stimuli, your brain starts to hallucinate.

So you start walking through fields of gold and you get some really intense experiences. And so I asked them all instance. So how long did you spend in there? And I was assuming, he'd say I don't know, a couple of days. And he was like, oh, I didn't know. A couple of weeks, not more, much more than a month.

He was without light or sound.  That's what a real silent retreat is. Metta retreats, M E T A loving kindness. So it's one of the different forms of meditation. I'm going to piss off so many people, but sorry, I really do see meditation as a toolbox. So TM, for example, transcendental meditation, it's really useful to help you concentrate.

It'll get you to Gianna one, the first stage of concentration meditation faster than any other form. I know, however, that's all, it'll get you. [01:00:00] You're not going to get the same kind of blending insights you get from the past. And I don't think you're going to get the kind of my God, I don't know if I'm going to survive this, but it is incredible healing that you'll get from Metta, decide what you want to get out of it.

And then go after it. If you want to schizophrenia episode, then go ahead, jump into Zen meditation and see how you like it. If you're going for emotional trauma healing, that's Metta. But my God be ready because as said, when you're in a Metta meditation retreat, it's like your brain goes, oh, we're in a safe zone.

Now we want to do healing. Excellent. Let's release all the trauma. We didn't know we had. And so often on metric retreat, you'll get people who are hit by things that happened there, pat that they had repressed and their brains like sweet say space, it's tough. It's really tough. But Metta retreats, Vipassana retreats, transcendental meditation, Zen don't use.

Then you've got all the meditation in motion and that can be really helpful for people. Five [01:01:00] rhythms also known as barefoot bookie, also known as dance in motion. That's a form of meditation that is just as valid as any other. And personally I'm a dancer by family, by blood, by whatever you want.

So I've always danced my way out of trauma. That's how I do it. Stop thinking of meditation as a spiritual path and start thinking of it as a mental and physical health toolkit. And you'll get so much more out of it and you'll actually get meditation for what it actually is.

Hala Taha: [01:01:28] So I'm going to ask the last question, where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do?

Olivia Fox Cabane: [01:01:34] They can go to my website, but I'm not gonna be spending a lot of time on there. LinkedIn honestly, is it's the one and only social media outlet on which I'm ever active at all. And anything that I do in the saving of the world arena is going to be there actually. That's where you know what LinkedIn.

Yeah. And my LinkedIn profile is linkedin.com/in and just the three letters, OFC, that's it. [01:02:00] And sources for learning more about the future of food and how to save the planet kindearth.tech. That's the event side of the company. I guess I put together new protein.org is where you're going to find all the maps, but I think it will be easier if I just send your type people, all of them, you can put them on your website or anything.

We made them to be used, but. I'm not the best resource. Jon Kabat, Zinn, wherever you go, there you are. Don't even read the whole book. Just read the introduction and maybe chapter one, you will already know more and have a better understanding meditation. Then nine, 9% of people on this planet for the food world, the good food Institute that really is the prime resource for how to save the world by food, the subway stuff just isn't public yet whatever's public is going to be on LinkedIn.

I think those are the best resources I can give you. Don't get the audio. I do not know why, because she's an amazing person on audio, [01:03:00] but the audio version of this book will make you want to shoot yourself. Get the actual paper version of a book called radical acceptance by Tara Brach. Have you ever met a guy called Tim Ferris?

Hala Taha: [01:03:12] Yes.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [01:03:13] Okay. Tim is not necessarily an easy guy to convince. And as he said himself on his podcast, everyone tells me some, this book will change your life. And so he usually doesn't this one. Hey, he read it. I was quite forceful about it. And B he Tara Brach on his podcast, because guess what? It did change his life.

This is one of the few books that will probably change the life of anyone who reads it. If they can make it through, it's not an easy one is going to ask you to look at it. Some pretty tough stuff. But once, that you can handle pretty much anything that happens inside of you. And that's another thing why ministers should retreat are fabulous by the way.

There's not much that your average business life could [01:04:00] throw at you. That's going to scare you. Meditation retreats as fabulous training for handling any intensity that can happen inside your own. That's it. Meditation is like a jungle gym for your mind. And meditation retreats are like bootcamps for your mind, yourself, your psyche, you come back from a meditation retreat.

You're going to be a whole lot harder to rattle.

Hala Taha: [01:04:23] Thank you so much, Olivia for joining young and profiting podcast.

Olivia Fox Cabane: [01:04:26] And it was absolutely a pleasure. And as soon as I'm doing interviews again, I promise I will be happy to.

Hala Taha: [01:04:32] Thank you for listening to young and profiting podcast. I hope you enjoyed listening to my conversation with Olivia.

She is such a bright and unique mind, and I personally find the alternative protein and cellular agriculture space to be so fascinating and full of opportunity. I hope this industry spotlight was eye opening for you too. The future of food and meat, the way Olivia describes it almost seems unbelievable, but let's remember that [01:05:00] associations and perceptions of food can change quickly.

Our grandparents and great grandparents used to eat whale in their school dinners back in the day. And now nobody thinks of whale when it comes to eating meat. So things can change and not to mention diet soda used to be associated with health. And now everyone knows it's quite the opposite. So when you consider these things, a world where we only eat lab grown meat, doesn't really seem that farfetched after all.

And plus we have so much on the line morally, and when it comes to our planet and the environment that should help guide the world to make the smartest decisions about what we eat and how we source it. Olivia's work reminds me of an episode. We recorded way back when number 22, becoming astronomically ambitious with billionaire CEO, Naveen Jain, and that episode, he talked about solving some of the world's biggest problems on earth by looking into space exploration.

Let's hear a clip from that episode.

Naveen Jain: [01:05:56] I haven't talked about concept of going to the moon. [01:06:00] Why go to the moon? Or why do the space exploration when there are so many problems on planet earth? What people don't realize is these are not mutually exclusive. First of all, any time you have a choice of going to this space or solving a problem on planet earth, that two eyes should be to do both.

We can explore the space and we can solve the planet on art. And by the way, we can explore the space to solve the problem on planet earth. Let's take an example of energy today. We believe the energy can only be produced by the resources that we have on planet earth. What if we can bring helium 3, which is an isotope of helium.

What if we can bring the helium 3  from moon or other places on space to planet earth, and it can be used as a completely non radioactive, clean energy source for [01:07:00] fusion energy.

Hala Taha: [01:07:01] Again, if you love learning about what's in store for the feature, check out our YAP classic episode. Number 22, becoming astronomically ambitious with Naveen Jain.

If you're a new listener, it would mean the world to us at younger profiting podcast. If you could drop us a review on apple podcasts, apple podcast reviews are the most impactful reviews for podcasters. Why? Because it directly affects all of our podcast rankings. And it's the number one way to support our show.

If you don't have access to apple podcasts, like you have an Android or something, five borrowing someone's iPhone and write us a review, don't forget to include your name and location so I can properly shout you out. And speaking of which I want to shout out a reviewer on apple podcasts, Lalala349 great podcast.

So many good things to say about young and profiting, Hala's in-depth research and sharp questions for guests rival that of James Lipton on inside the actors, studio, her warmth [01:08:00] and enthusiasm make for an environment where guests feel comfortable sharing deep parts of their lives. Everything you want out of your time, TV talk show hosting must be next on her list.

If you want, thought provoking content, great guests and life lessons. Look no further. Wow. LA that is probably one of the best reviews I've ever gotten. I appreciate you taking the time to leave us feedback and giving me that amazing compliment. Comparing me to James Lipton. I am so honored that you see that in me and TV show hosting.

I would love to do that. And I agree. I see that in my feature as well. Thank you so much again, and for everybody out there listening, please take the time to write us an apple podcast review at YAP, we really don't ask much from our listeners. Nothing is ever on Patrion we never asked you guys to pay.

We never ask for donations. I'm even on clubhouse, coaching, social media and podcasting every single day for free. We just love to serve our listeners. And so that's why if you find value in YAP, if you listen to [01:09:00] YAP, please rate us on apple podcast review. It would mean the world to me and guys the other thing that I love to see lately, and I've been

seeing it a lot more often is people taking screenshots of them, listening to yap, and then tagging me in their stories on Instagram at Yap with Hala, I'm getting way more active on Instagram. My following is growing there every single day. And so if you post that to stories, I'm going to repost, whoever supports me.

So go ahead, take a screenshot of you listening, tag me at Yap with Hala and I promise I will reshare it on my stories. And I'm also on LinkedIn of course you can find me at Hala Taha and also clubhouse. I host clubhouse events every single day. Follow me at Hala Taha. Big thanks to the YAP team is always, this is Hala signing off.