Richard Moore: The Laws of Selling | E26

#26: The Laws of Selling with Richard Moore

Get ready to amp up your sales skills! In this episode of YAP, Hala uncovers the laws of selling with Richard Moore, a sales guru and consultant with over 16 years of experience in online, in-person and phone-based selling. Tune in to learn his #RichTips on selling— like how to create a winning pitch, when to switch from relationship building to selling, how to turn engagement on social into leads, the difference between solution selling and product selling, the definition of a sales funnel and more!

#26: The Laws of Selling with Richard Moore

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[00:01:07] You're listening to YAP Young And Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn and profit.

[00:01:14] I'm your host, Hala Taha. And today we're uncovering, The Laws of Selling with Richard Moore. A sales guru with over 16 years of experience in online in-person and phone-based selling. Richard currently heads, a wildly successful consulting firm and event business, traveling the world to share his knowledge on sales. Helping others turn leads into clients, and close more deals.

[00:01:37] And now Rich has joined us to share his insights here onYAP.

[00:01:42] Hey Richard, thanks for joining Young And Profiting Podcast. It's lovely to have you.

[00:01:46] Richard Moore: Thank you so much and real honor to be on here. And a lot of amazing guests before me.

[00:01:50] Hala Taha: Awesome. So let's kick it off, talking a little bit about your background.

[00:01:55] You used to work 12 hours a day in London before you decided to start your own [00:02:00] company. And you also were a student, who didn't do very well and you flunked out of your exams in high school and just barely gotten to college. So how did you end up, leaving your traditional nine to five and how did you become a super seller? When you couldn't even really manage high school. Very well.

[00:02:18] Richard Moore: Good points. The end part of work was already bad space, where I was doing a crazy hours every week and I really just knew it was time to move on. And I think what it is there's an interesting thread, through my career and indeed this school and academia before that is that I've always tried to do the best I possibly can.

[00:02:39] And if I can't. Then I do something about it and that's the trend, if you like. So I flunked my exams at high school. Which meant I scraped into a very average university. And my example of fixing that was that I then made sure I came top of the year at that university. Pass that degree and then went to a [00:03:00] really good university and got a degree from a great place.

[00:03:03] So it was a top five university. So that was my way of fixing it. And then it was the same with the career. It was like, you can't do 60 to 80 hour weeks. And I was doing this for best part of a year at times. I really horrible space I was in and it was. The difficult time, because, I had mortgages cars.

[00:03:19] I had a wife and a young child as well, so I had to be responsible. But I backed myself and I knew that I could sell. Cause that's something I'd done so well in my career. And all of my career has been different forms of selling roles and taking that with me. It was a case of saying, I'm not going to have.

[00:03:37] This dialogue of, can I do it? I hope it works out. Let's hope it doesn't go wrong. It was just, it is happening. It's going to work, force it through, and I'm quite aggressive with myself when I need to be in order to get the outcome after I suppose. I suppose your short version of that is it doesn't matter if you stumble get up and fix it.

[00:03:56] And that's very much my theme through my life.

[00:03:58] Hala Taha: Cool. So what do [00:04:00] you do today? Tell us about your life.

[00:04:02] Richard Moore: Today two main things I do in work. And one is that I consult and coach businesses in London. And it may be very high ticket items. So sometimes five figure or six figure deals. And it's really exciting working in that space.

[00:04:16] The face to face coaching is wonderful, especially when you get that impact. When someone comes to you and says, I've doubled my revenue this month, because of those things you showed me. That's really lovely to do and spinning out of that, Hala. I also do things like help people with their online engagement.

[00:04:31] So LinkedIn and so on too. And that's why I'm quite busy on there. But the other side of what I do, which is my new baby is since May last year, in fact, there's almost a year or so that I've decided to do it is an events business. Running events called entrepreneur business live, started in London, really simply they are networking events with everyone has speakers talking about wonderful things.

[00:04:54] We donate money to charity as well, and it's just gone so well. The is really got. [00:05:00] So we're readying for Melbourne in Australia next week, we've got San Francisco next month. We just had New York last week. It's just going crazy. Some loving those two things. And if I may, there is a third thing it's I spend as much time as possible with my two beautiful daughters.

[00:05:14] Hala Taha: Oh, that's cute. So you started after college working a corporate job and then you transitioned to become an entrepreneur. So what was that thought process? Like, why did you decide to take the plunge and did you start it as a side hustle or did you cut your day job? Cold Turkey?

[00:05:31] Richard Moore: Yeah, I'm very lucky in a way.

[00:05:32] My first job in 2002 was actually selling internet marketing. So it was a long time ago and people like really the internet, but I really learned how to back myself, and what it meant was that when it came to taking the plunge, about 10 years later. I was able to say, you've got this, go do it. And so I went cold Turkey and as I was drawing to a close of my corporate jobs, some people were asking me to do some offline consulting, but rather than transitioning and doing it part-time I was like,

[00:06:00] let's go.

[00:06:01] And then you can just go for it. And in fact, my first thing, other than a bit of consulting was I launched to Taekwondo academies because I'd been coaching that in London for a while. And I thought maybe this is something to start with. To answer your question directly. The thought process was one born of perspective.

[00:06:15] I'd have a very hard year before that, I'd lost two very close family members. And when my daughter was born, she almost died a lot. And we actually lived literally in the hospital for three months. So I was commuting to London from there. Very hard time. And you probably seen this more than most in your interviews on your podcast, is that out of adversity, often come new perspectives on the world and I just stop. I stopped moaning and complaining or looking for pity and started fixing stuff and just being a bit more grateful about where I was in my life. I'm very able bodied. I have the capability to do great things, I think. And so I was like, let's just go for it. And it's a nice [00:07:00] thing when you know. You've got responsibility as well, because it means you don't drop the ball because I'm accountable to a family as well as just to myself.

[00:07:06] So I had all the right motivations and I just wanted to make sure that I made the most of my life when some people weren't able to, they were snuffed out early. So I don't want to go too deep on that if you don't need me to, but that was important.

[00:07:18] Hala Taha: Yeah, that's amazing and congrats on all your success.

[00:07:21] So let's get into the crux of your expertise. You are known to be an incredible seller. Do you think that great salespeople are born or made?

[00:07:32] Richard Moore: I think they are made. I really do. I don't think that born. I think there are circumstances that can happen to people and to be fair as oppose. It's been in my DNA, that I've often looked for angles on things.

[00:07:48] When I was like 13, I built my first computer and sold it for a hundred pounds. And I've, I was a bit of a nerd and I did like the taste of trying to look for the angle and how I make a [00:08:00] close on something. But I do feel that people are made. And it's exposure to scenarios, where you might need to sell that, get you comfortable in doing it.

[00:08:11] Both my degrees are in history, not in business. I didn't do an entrepreneurship course or anything like that. I just had time on the pitch. And the reason why I believe that selling is something that you learn is that, although I have personality traits that might've helped a bit. I was always a very shy and introverted person, not the classical skill set you'd expect in someone who's selling.

[00:08:35] And the first job was one where I had to sell, because otherwise I hadn't got enough money. And my mother was very much the kind of person who pushed me. She said, after university, you're not coming home, by the way. You need to go and get a job. And I didn't get funding for a PhD. So I had to find a job in the first one I went for was simply a phone-based selling job.

[00:08:56] And so I went. Okay, let's try this then. And it's not that I [00:09:00] had sales in my DNA. Not being allowed to quit in my DNA. And I think that has helped me, but in terms of the nuances and how I got good at selling. It's just making sure I had that contact time. You couldn't get me off the phone cause I needed to crack it and spending money on books or on courses and things like that.

[00:09:18] I'm very much a student of it, as opposed to someone who's had it intrinsically built into me as well.

[00:09:24] Hala Taha: What are some of the skills that people should try to hone if they're trying to improve their selling? What is it that they should try to learn?

[00:09:32] Richard Moore: Yeah. Very good question. It sounds cliche, but often the cliches are true.

[00:09:35] Selling is a people sport and that's never been more true than in 2019. People hate being sold to, they hate being gamed. The feeling of being gamed. Imagine, think about all those ads on your mobile or Facebook. It really winds you up a bit. So people need to feel a little bit more like it's an organic process.

[00:09:55] People love to buy though. And what you need to do is position yourself [00:10:00] as someone who can offer value to sufficiently, relevant and enough people that some people then pick themselves off and buy, and the skills really. Grounded in interpersonal skills. So for me as an introvert, as a shy person, to start with someone who naturally wouldn't be able to open people up the way to do it was have contact time.

[00:10:24] And I started by doing it on the phone. I strongly advise anyone in this kind of space to make sure they network at least once a month. I actually do a lot of work now with shy and introverted people and helping them learn those first steps. And just exposure to people who might be interested parties, or just simply other people is essential, sitting behind your keyboard is a dangerous place to be. Because you're losing touch with those nuances and subtleties that actually are quite valuable.

[00:10:56] It comes to selling. And I think from there, you can learn a structure. You [00:11:00] can learn a process of selling, but really if you get people. You hone the empathy side and being able to see things from their perspective and therefore react the way that the prospect would like is where success lies at the moment in my opinion.

[00:11:14] Hala Taha: So you just mentioned a lot about getting that personal contact and based on some of the research that we've done. I see that you're still a champion of cold calling, despite that it has reputation of a method that's really going out of style. I personally hate when people cold call me. So tell me why do you still encourage it?

[00:11:34] Richard Moore: The short answer is cause a lot of people still use it and pay me to help them with it. And I think that doesn't mean that I'm championing something. I don't believe. The good thing about it is that there are ways in which you can separate yourself, from those who give it a bad name. There is a right way of doing cold calling.

[00:11:51] And what we've got to be is really clear here. If you're starting a business and you have no inbound [00:12:00] traffic, if you haven't done content creation. If you've got no one who's warm as a lead, you have to go and manually close people. And learning how to open people up in a way that isn't irritating or parasitic is really wonderful, because it allows you to move process along nice and swiftly.

[00:12:19] But again, when it comes down to is how to really understand the position. The mindset of that person who is called from whom you've earned nothing. And how you going to relate to that person in the first few seconds? And it's all about sharing great wins for them, rather than sounding cliche or like some kind of game show host. Just a little bit of well-placed research and doing it right.

[00:12:44] Means that you can warm them up. And probably the best bit of advice is if you can find someone who it has a mutual contact of yours. Where you have something in common, then everyone knows, sure. This person's probably calling me to sell something, but at least you've got something in common or something to [00:13:00] work off.

[00:13:00] Do you see what I mean? So for instance, when I first spoke it to you before we recorded this podcast, I saw that you lived in Brooklyn and my sister had lived there for a few years, even something on that high level is just at least something to break the ice. I'm a big fan of it because it can get you results in the moment.

[00:13:16] Something like Facebook ads can be really effective, but that might take you a lot longer. And a lot of the sales methods out there are softer and more fulfilling in the stimulating sense, but they need a lot more runway, do I cold call? No, I don't. I use inbounds, but for those who still use it, I think it can be applicable.

[00:13:36] But only if you recognize that it is dying because mostly people are irritated.

[00:13:42] Hala Taha: Yeah. Cool. Great advice. I like your perspective. So let's talk about having the right pitch. So in sales, I know that having the right pitch and kind of earning someone's attention is very important. So what's your recipe that?

[00:13:57] Richard Moore: I often give people lots of different ways of doing it, but if people [00:14:00] are taking notes. Then it is something along the lines of wins plus peer or mutual equals interest straight away. And just to explain that a win is like a, some kind of a benefit for that person. It's an explanation of the fact that you might be able to help them look good, make money, save money, save time, something along those lines.

[00:14:21] The problem is that on its own. It's math with cynicism, right? It's you know, we're skeptical about someone who says, Hey, I can make you lots of money. What's known as the big fat claim and it doesn't work. And now you sound like everyone else who cold calls. But if you combine that with a person or a contact or a connection or a business, that has got the buy-in of that prospect, then you're in a better place.

[00:14:47] So what I'm saying is if I was to cold call you, Hala. And say. Hi, can I sell you something? It doesn't work. If I say hi, I'd like to sell you something, that can get you this [00:15:00] wit and it can help save you time. It probably still won't work because I've not earned the right, or you're not willing to buy into me.

[00:15:06] I've got to earn that first, if I was to become the messenger and position this from a different perspective of maybe someone, so if I was to mention one of your team that have worked. But if I said something like. Hi, you don't know me, but I've worked with Timothy Tan, your business development manager.

[00:15:22] Okay. And Timothy, and I've worked with together for two years and I've been helping save him a lot of time with his business leads. I just love to take a couple of minutes, grab a coffee with you to speak about it. I'm validated. By proxy through Timothy Tan, you've gone through the pain of working out if he's a crazy guy or if he's all right.

[00:15:40] And if I'm good enough for him, then by proxy, I'm good enough for you. Do you see what I mean? And it's, and what it is it's taking cues from the offline world. 'cause you wouldn't sell to someone in the park. The first time you meet them. What you do is you ask them how they're doing, and it's a little bit awkward, but if you had a mutual [00:16:00] contact, my goodness, it's easy.

[00:16:02] And it's just funny because the evidence of this working is staring everyone in the face. When you went to the last wedding you attended, the person sitting next to you at that table was the first thing you ask. So how do you know the bride or groom, and you'd laugh and joke about what they did at university or how crazy they were on their stag, do whatever.

[00:16:20] And the reason why you can do that and you open up and the barriers dropped because you have that mutual connection. So if they're good enough for one of us, they must be good enough for the other. Do you see what I mean? So leveraging. The benefit and the win. Great. Good for you. You're talking about how the product can help, but no one believes it because we've been conditioned against it nowadays.

[00:16:38] But when it's attached to someone, or a person that we believe in and we trust. Then it goes a long way. And the thing is, even if you don't have a mutual connection, you could use a business. That's well, And that's why, for example, the star wars franchise, if they release a film, that's terrible. Everyone goes watches it still not [00:17:00] because the film, it might be good or not.

[00:17:01] It's because it's a star wars film, and there's a bunch of fans. It's the same principle, so you can leverage a brand that's well-known and of course you can leverage people that are connected to. And so that little, extra bit of research, can go on.

[00:17:13] Hala Taha: Cool. So then how do we switch from this relationship building to then selling our actual product?

[00:17:20] Richard Moore: Yeah, I think this is the important part is that people have this issue of connecting with people, building a network, even a community. And they're like, how do I pivot that into a monetized moment? The way you do it is you're looking for, what's known as a cue. Okay. So a cue is like a compliment or some form of engagement from that person that suggests that you're being useful.

[00:17:44] So if I focus on them, if I focus on giving them some wins and talking about how I've helped Timothy Tan and all the a few anecdotes or war stories. That might help a bit, but what I need to do is get you talking. So ask some questions along the lines of, if you think they might be [00:18:00] useful. And if I get any form of positivity from you, then that's you essentially saying you've earned the right Richard to now ask me something.

[00:18:08] And that's the point where I can say. Do you know, I really think I can help you. Would you like to explore what that might look like? And you don't have to be pushy. You just simply have to position it in front of someone who's receptive. And if someone's not risking. Work harder at that front end of building rapport and taking your time and know pretty much with more questions.

[00:18:28] And then there was a lot of other techniques but that's a really important part is being a bit more patient. Don't try and hard pivot into now let me talk about my thing, trying to have it more conversational. And again, that's what people would prefer these days.

[00:18:40] Hala Taha: So what's an example of a cue that your prospect would give you?

[00:18:45] Richard Moore: Totally. And this is how I started doing online consulting. I would open 20 new conversations per day, when I started out and I would start them on Facebook messenger and I would just get engaged with people. Just have a chat, talk about things we had in common. I would make sure [00:19:00] I, maybe in the same group or something.

[00:19:01] And we talk about what we did cause you naturally do. And for some of them, they might ask something about what I do. And then I would give them a bit of value and some ideas. And they'd say, gee, you know what? I'd never looked at it that way, or, wow, that's really inspiring. Or, oh my God, that's a really good way of putting it Richard.

[00:19:19] And what it is if you're genuinely good at what you do. Or if you have a product that genuinely can help. Then that will come through and that earns you the right to get these compliments. And that compliment is the moment when that person's saying. You know what, you've earned now the opportunity to ask me something and that ask is, would you like to explore a bit more or even something like that, then I would say I know I can help you here.

[00:19:44] Thanks so much for that compliment. I know I can help you here. Why don't we hop on a call and or why don't we meet up or something like that. And there's no pressure. Cause, I'm not going to win with every single one, but it's about exploring those things and no need for pressure at all. Just simply keep them feeling [00:20:00] good.

[00:20:00] The advice I give to those who are nervous about this, or lack a bit of confidence is no problem go for the second cue. And by the time you get the second queue, it's okay, that person is like screaming out now. Okay. I really think you're great and valuable. So now's the time. And you know what, if you don't get the cue.

[00:20:17] So work harder, so be more useful. And if you screw it up well. Then that's that try again with someone else. And I think being cool. With the fact that you're not going to win them all is important as well.

[00:20:29] Hala Taha: Speaking of that, you have an interesting story about a customer in one of your Taekwondo academies.

[00:20:34] And you talk about how they're not your highest paying customer, but they're great advocates of your business and they earn you a lot of income indirectly. And you still say that people who don't buy from you. I still have an opportunity to become your advocate. So can you explain that principle and how we can leverage it?

[00:20:50] Richard Moore: This is so important nowadays, our customer is no longer a single entity. It really isn't and someone who doesn't buy is not a lost [00:21:00] cause if I look at my profile on LinkedIn. It will say this many thousands of people have viewed your profile this month and they haven't all converted to sales, but plenty of them stick and turn into something.

[00:21:13] And it was the same with this customer. She was paying a lower level of subscription to my Taekwondo Academy, this is a few years back and she loved it so much. She was never going to buy more because she was a mom. She had children, she wasn't going to attend more classes, but because she loved it so much. She told her friends and the thing got to remember, especially on nine is if you do something good for a single person, They might share your stuff amongst loads in their network.

[00:21:40] I've got people who have followed my live Q and A's for almost three years now, since they started, I've got some of them who are broke and they would never buy a thing. But they share everything. They love everything. They do everything they can because they've loved being part of the ecosystem.

[00:21:53] And so building those advocates are essential because everyone has a network. Nowadays, [00:22:00] if you post something about me online. Some of your network. Who've never heard of me will see me. And that's why, even though doing something like a podcast, isn't something you necessarily get paid for. It's worth doing, because there are more people than just you hearing me speak.

[00:22:17] Do you see what I mean? So thinking about that networks.

[00:22:21] Hala Taha: Cool. So the next question is really to calibrate for those who may not be so familiar with sales. I've got listeners who do all different kinds of things. So can you describe one of your sales funnels for any of your businesses, just to walk through what a sales funnel is and give it a live example.

[00:22:38] Richard Moore: The concept is very simple.

[00:22:39] Imagine the shape of a funnel. Obviously the bottom being within a par at the bottom of the funnel is where your customers drop out at the very top. It's why. To receive a volume of people and that's crucial at the start. So what you need to do at the beginning of your sales funnel is create something that's going to attract a new mass.

[00:22:57] So a large number of [00:23:00] ideally fairly relevant people, from that set of fairly relevant. Go through a number of hoops or jump through a number of gates and the consume number of types of content or whatever it might be. And move to a place where less and less of them come through. But ultimately there's a piece of business or whatever conversion you're after.

[00:23:17] So an example of that. I'm going to use this one, cause this is one that everyone, can do is one that is free. Okay, and that's using the power of your social media platforms, and the best organic traffic online in 2019 is on LinkedIn, better than Facebook and Instagram and so on is LinkedIn right now. So as a content platform, if you post a piece of content and you do it the right way in terms of working or community, and connecting with contacts and showing appreciation by engaging with those who write comments and stuff. What happens is you're leveraging one of the most useful part of human psychology.

[00:23:57] Which is curiosity, human [00:24:00] curiosity is so powerful. It's the reason why compete cars slow down when there's an accident. The other side of the road, people can't help themselves. They have to look. It's the reason why, when you meet someone in a, you know, in the bar. When you go home, you check out their Facebook to see what they really like.

[00:24:16] Or when you meet someone in business, you have a look at their LinkedIn profile. So just by being, interesting and of value and having something to say in your space. It means that people, as I call it, they come into orbit. Around you, you're providing a sense of gravity against a topic at the top of your funnel.

[00:24:36] It's essentially you have some sense of pure signal, that you're going to put out. So maybe for me, for instance, I'll talk a lot about how to generate engagement online, because that's one of my sweet spots or how to do well on LinkedIn or how to sell. For instance, just tips and ideas. More people will check that out than anything else, but some of them because they can't help themselves.

[00:24:57] And that's because they're people. They will say, who's [00:25:00] this Richard. Some will say I don't care. And then we've all no problem. But someone will say, let's just click on his link. Now they're on my profile. So that's a step further down the funnel. And then a few of them we'll look through the actual information.

[00:25:13] Oh, look, he's got this basics of sales course or they'll click on my website for more information. You might have 4,000 people look at a piece of content, 570. Look at the profile then. 89, go to my website. 16, look at the landing page for the basics of sales and then four buy it. And that might seem like terrible numbers, but do that every day.

[00:25:34] And you soon move to a wonderful place where people like you invite people like me on the podcast.

[00:25:41] Hala Taha: That's great. Thanks for that advice. So let's move on to some of the pitfalls of sales. What are some big mistakes that people typically make and how can we avoid them?

[00:25:51] Richard Moore: One of the biggest issues. Also to do with being a human is that you have to manage your [00:26:00] head and to stop.

[00:26:01] It's a very emotional thing because you invest a lot in it. And ultimately you might be selling a product for the right reason. My events raise money for charity, and I'm really doing my best to educate and help people. But ultimately there is a money component, there as well that I'm trying to sell. If you don't get a sale, it can really hurt you, especially if it's a big one you've worked on and so on.

[00:26:20] So there's a way in which you can handle this is to recognize that you won't win them all. You simply, don't. I'm really fortunate that I've worked with some of the greatest salespeople, some that make huge amounts of money. And for all of them, none of them are infallible. They make mistakes and you got to be at peace with the fact that they're not always going to go your way.

[00:26:40] And the best way to hack that was two ways. One is to have enough prospects, in what's known as your pipeline, enough people you're speaking to that. It doesn't really matter if you do some. It's like that thing of, if you win the lottery, it doesn't matter if you lose $50. If you only have [00:27:00] $50 in the weld, now, it really matters.

[00:27:02] It's the same here. Enough prospects helps you a law. And the other thing as well is harder, but it's so essential. I run it clean. Don't focus on the money. So much focus on doing a really good job. And I know this might sound cheesy, but if you look at the reason. Why you're really doing it, look at the reason, the reason why the person at the other end of the desk or phone might be wanting to buy. Like what's the relationship or outcome they might be after do it for good reasons.

[00:27:31] And you'll end up, focusing on the reasons. Why someone should be involved rather than your deal and your money. Ultimately the reason why I feel I do well in sales now is because I'm, of course I'm interested in closing things, but at the same time I'm. And some people will be a deal or a sale within 10 minutes.

[00:27:50] And some people will take months, and that's cool. And as long as you have enough. Then you have the fun of engaging with different levels of people that they take different [00:28:00] amounts of time. Just try it quickly to not focus on just making money all the time, focused on doing a great job and have enough prospects out there that it is okay.

[00:28:09] And you can be patient. I can hold my breath forever and it means that if someone's no, not now or, they don't buy for a long time. I'm okay with it because you have alternatives and that's not the point. Anyway, I suppose what I'm saying is I enjoy the process of engaging with people and if they turn into deals, then that's wonderful.

[00:28:28] And it's a nicer, organic way of selling.

[00:28:31] Hala Taha: So do you like keep tabs on how many meetings or conversations you have with each person? I know that in the past you've mentioned, it takes six to eight meetings, for a cold prospect before they can turn into a sale. So is there a point where you're like, this is just a waste of time and I can't talk to you anymore?

[00:28:47] Or do you just keep it going?

[00:28:48] Richard Moore: Yeah. So pretty good question, because the more you move towards corporates and businesses, the more they want to audit that kind of thing. And they get that on average. It's six to eight touch points or points of contact on

[00:29:00] average that it takes to engage someone. And that might be messages that might be meetings.

[00:29:03] It depends on what you're selling. I suppose I don't as much. What that number is a reflection of the reality of how many times you'll probably be in touch with someone in some form or other, but in terms of taking a note of it. I don't tend to do it so much because it's organic. Some things you can be robotic about, some things you should say to yourself as I did.

[00:29:24] How many people am I starting new conversations with each. So that you don't think a day's going really well. Cause you had a nice chat with someone, but you feel like a day's going really well because you had 10 nice chats with people, and that's one of your kind of points of focus. But I do my best to remember that when I'm in a process with someone. It's now down to the individual, so doing a piece of business with you will be different to do.

[00:29:51] Piece of business with our celebrity, Timothy Tan. So it might be that he takes six months. He might've been burned in the past. It might be that he's just closed a big [00:30:00] deal and was feeling really flush. And I think forgetting certain things like that is a good idea. What could the person in front of you, you can nudge and you can create urgency, but ultimately you need.

[00:30:12] Feel, or they need to feel like they are in control of the agenda to a degree. Otherwise they'll feel like they're being backed into a corner. And again, then they feel like they're being sold to.

[00:30:22] Hala Taha: Another mistake in sales is that sometimes people really focus on the product. What's so cool about the product and they forget about the customer needs, and what the customer is trying to solve.

[00:30:33] So do you have any tips on how we can uncover what a prospect is actually trying to solve?

[00:30:39] Richard Moore: Absolutely huge and thrilled. You brought this up because this is something that's so overlooked. It's so overlooked, especially by the kind of solo, preneur and startup space. And the reason why they overlook it is because they are in love.

[00:30:55] With their baby. Which is the product that been polishing. You may really want [00:31:00] everyone to love it. And so naturally they want to evangelize about all the little bells and whistles, but the fact is that no one cares and the answer to your point is so fundamental to good selling. And it's also the reason it's salespeople can have a very bad name, and it's because the product, this might sound crazy, but the product doesn't matter at all.

[00:31:25] If you look at it and I think surveys have been done. The suggestion is that the reason why someone buys something is relevant to the product to about 10%. The rest is about the connection. So if I take a perfect example, something you might have an iPhone, the iPhone is the device. You don't buy an iPhone.

[00:31:46] You buy looking good. The reason why you don't have a black. Is that it's not called right now. People buy an iPhone because it makes a statement of, I have an $800 phone [00:32:00] and I'm part of a tribe. And I buy into the values of apple and you buy things because as a human, they make you look or feel good.

[00:32:10] They make you money. They save you money. They save you time. That's the reason why we buy stuff. The reason why people buy a Ferrari, isn't to buy the Ferrari. They buy that device because it makes them look good, feel successful and probably get more attention from people. And that's what you're actually buying.

[00:32:30] And there's a very famous markets are called Seth Goden, who says that the product is the souvenir. All of that process of buying these outcomes. So in practical terms, what we need to be doing is remembering, that if the product is just the device. For someone to get these wins as I've called them. So looking good, making money, whatever, and everything does genuinely reduce down to those base things.

[00:32:56] Then what we need to do is focus on those outcomes for that [00:33:00] person. So like I suggested in the example earlier, if I talk to you about how I've helped Timothy Tan saved time. Look good in not so many words, more of an elegant way and make money. Then that's compelling. If I talk about a product and how it works and, whatever screen size it has and stuff like that's just boring because people don't care, unless you're part of a very small minority of people. Who are buying something for a particular set of product reasons.

[00:33:29] But in the main it's about giving someone a set of outcome. Being a great connection as well. And so being someone who's call and that's trustworthy and builds familiarity, and the product is, as I say, it's simply the device. I know it sounds crazy, but if you break it down to looking at the psychology and behavior, that's actually why we buy it.

[00:33:48] Hala Taha: Very cool. I loved all that advice. So let's move on to social selling. It's something you were mentioning before. Everyone's trying to do it, but not many people get it. So what are the types of [00:34:00] habits that we need to build into our social media strategy, and how do we actually convert engagement into leads?

[00:34:06] Richard Moore: The first part I have a process I use called the care process. C A R E. Which I developed many years ago, and it's just a really solid way of getting it right. So C stands for consistency, which means you need to show up, each day in a number of ways, both in terms of content, but also in terms of with the community and community is far more important than content, far more.

[00:34:28] It's about the people that are in your network and keeping them warm and, people who will advocate for you. Dropping the DM every so often, or seeing how they're doing or checking into their content and supporting them and so on. So being consistent in that sense. A is for abundance because you could be consistent and show up with one piece of content once a month, but that's not going to be enough, because there is a thing called an algorithm.

[00:34:52] Plus. You drop off people's radar, right? So a level of frequency. That's going to help you. For instance, [00:35:00] LinkedIn, I post about once ish a day, so maybe four or five times a week is all I do, but at least that's enough that I don't drop off people's radar. So that kind of level of abundance is important and cumulatively across a day. I might spend between an hour and a half.

[00:35:16] In the abundance space, engaging with people's comments and on their posts and things like that. And R is for relevancy. You'll see that on any videos of cats playing xylophones, because that would be a bit confusing. You need to put out that kind of pure sick. About what it is you do. And so if you look at when people create lists of here's a guy I know who does this kind of thing, people always talk about online engagement and sales, and now increasing, they talk about the events I do, because that's the pure signal they get from me.

[00:35:49] If someone wants to speak to someone about finance. They don't actually think of me because there's no content suggesting that so you need to keep that clarity, and that constant, pure signal about what it is you do. [00:36:00] Relevancy is huge. And then the E of care is engagement. And this is one of the areas where people fail the most.

[00:36:08] And this is answering your second part, which is how you get conversion, from connections into leads. The engagement is everything. So many people post and run, so many people post them, leave it at that. Some people. Post and check in and they see. They got a few likes and comments and don't engage.

[00:36:23] The game is in the comments and the community. Your content will not do the selling. The content is the gravity to get people into orbit around you. And if you don't validate, their decision to like or comment, or even shale staff by giving something back, such as a meaningful comment in return, they just don't show up again.

[00:36:50] And I've used this analogy before. It sounds a bit awful, if a dog does a trick, you give them a treat, right? So it's the same here. If someone shows up for you [00:37:00] and writes, wow, I love this post. This is really useful to not give them something to validate that decision. Is absurd. It's almost rude.

[00:37:09] So give them a meaningful comment back that engagement is the reason why people will then show up again and again, it's algorithmic, but it's also your you're treating them well, they can feel good. And it's wow, the person who did this content is now writing me a comment back. So don't write.

[00:37:25] That's really you thanks so much. Maybe Chuck him a DM go crazy when you're starting out. This is what I first did. My first ever bits of content. If someone dead like it. I would send them a message and say, thank you for liking it. And a lot of people overlook that oh, I just got a few likes.

[00:37:40] I've got no leads. It's no, man likes our leads are sitting right there. You've just got to go and warm them up to what people need to do. And this is the mistake, I think is that you need to come down from your. Go into the people who are spending some time on your stuff, and have some kind of discourse with them, do that every day.[00:38:00]

[00:38:00] And then people will start showing up for you and then they will convert. And the nice thing is that they convert themselves at all the time. They feel familiar. And again, this is a human thing. Familiarity is where trust is bread and trust is the thing you have to get. If anyone's going to ever convert to a core, an opt-in or a sale of something.

[00:38:19] So the game really is that community and doing it really right in 2019 is beyond comments and conversations and threads in your content. It's over on other people's.

[00:38:33] Hala Taha: Yeah. That's amazing. I think you brought up so many good points and personally. Through my podcast, the only reason why my podcast has become successful is because I've grew a community on LinkedIn and everybody shares my content.

[00:38:46] I have advocates and it's so important to build that community, and take the time to get to know. People all across the world, like you said, step off your throne and take some time to get to know the people who are supporting you.

[00:38:59] Richard Moore: Yeah. And as a [00:39:00] human, by this age, we're insurance have enough. You can tell people are wasting your time.

[00:39:04] So find you leave them alone a bit. But in the main, if you do this, what happens is you're not just warming a community. You're warming your distribution platform and that's not LinkedIn. It's actually the people. And that's why some people will share everything you ever do. That's why some people.

[00:39:19] Always see you top of feed. They will be following you. They'll follow your hashtag or whatever it is. And they will show up every single time. And that's so essential again, to the point I've made a bit earlier because it's not that individual anymore. It's not, it's the individual and 725 people of their network who are now seeing it as well.

[00:39:39] And so what you're doing is you're really cultivating a set of people. Who are showing up for you, and that's how you build momentum behind a product like your podcast. And that's why, for instance, in January, our first New York event. They've only just signed themselves up, and when they arrived, it was the community that had been built online and they were

[00:40:00] hugging each other.

[00:40:01] A business networking event. Think about it. Normally a business networking event is an awkward here's my business card. What do you do? Kind of thing. But instead it was like a reunion. It was a party of people who are really close. And that's this recurring theme we're seeing with all of the events, because we're building a community. And giving them an event in the same way as you're building a community and giving them a podcast, not the classic way of building a podcast and hoping you can get people to come and listen to it.

[00:40:27] It's far better doing it the other way.

[00:40:30] Hala Taha: Okay. So last question on sales, before we move to productivity and entrepreneurship. I heard your sales go down in the DM's you mentioned it earlier. So tell me about some strategies you use with your direct messaging.

[00:40:43] Richard Moore: Yeah. It comes back to this thing of patience.

[00:40:46] And it's funny. I saw someone earlier with an ad on Facebook talking about their secrets. It's there's no secrets, volume, and empathy and patience are just that all you need to be doing really. Remember that everyone's different, [00:41:00] show keenness in them dare to do nine seconds of research on someone's profile.

[00:41:05] A really good technique. Here is the DMs is look at the last piece of content. Someone did, oh, two days ago you wrote a piece of content. Yeah. And I often won't go to a DM first. I won't even go to a connection request. First. I will go to their content. I would engage with them a bit. I'll write something meaningful, maybe tag a friend and bring them over, because now I've got the attention of the person who created that content.

[00:41:30] And then if you think about it, if you do that a couple of times, when you then send a connection request and say, Hey, we've been chatting on your content, thought we should connect. You always get accepted. And again, then you can just. Talk find out about that person. And I really think this organic manual way not really using bots is the way to do it.

[00:41:50] Especially with higher ticket offerings, a bit of making a relationship with someone is really important. The move from. That DM conversation to a conversion [00:42:00] comes back to that idea of the queue again, and your looking for that. But it might be that it never happens. And so that's fine. That's why you have plenty of conversations and look, this is fun, right?

[00:42:10] You get to engage with new people every day. There's no better way of selling now than one. When you engage with new people, it's tremendously stimulating.

[00:42:18] Hala Taha: Awesome.

[00:42:19] So many takeaways for all of you guys to try to implement. Let's move on to productivity because you seem like a very productive person.

[00:42:26] You have a counter-intuitive approach to productivity, that you explain through an analogy of a Greyhound race. One where one of the greyhounds is actually chained. Can you tell us about this example, how you've applied it and how our listeners can apply it to their projects?

[00:42:42] Richard Moore: I will be honest. I don't remember that analogy, but I do write a lot.

[00:42:45] So maybe you feel me and I will try and remember.

[00:42:48] Hala Taha: So basically I think there was like some sort of a Greyhound race. One of them is chained up and it basically bottled up all his energy, so that when he was unchanged, he beat everybody in the race. [00:43:00]

[00:43:00] Richard Moore: Okay. One thing I can say is that there's a lot of sense.

[00:43:04] If you want to be productive in doing two things. One is counter-intuitive. One is to make sure that. Taking time out, which seems weird. Cause being productive, people think it means you actually getting on with your work, but actually you can be more productive. What it is that if you hold yourself back from doing things, you start getting that kind of hunger, especially if it's against something that you want to do.

[00:43:29] Another analogy to make things more easy to digest is imagine I put a piece of gorgeous chocolate in front of you. You can eat it right away, but imagine what happens if you don't allow yourself to eat it for an hour. You just sit there, smelling it and looking at it. And there's this marvelous build off the suspense.

[00:43:45] When you are finally allowed to eat it. You're going to gobble that thing up. And so there's something really exciting. I think, in stewing over how you're about to launch it, something so jumping all the time isn't necessarily [00:44:00] practical because. Sometimes you can really hack at your own motivation and a good way of doing this is because you can have that time-out and it allows you to recharge.

[00:44:10] Sure. But it also allows you to get yourself charged up on the start line again, and ready to run at something in a few weeks time. I'm running an event in San Francisco. Part of that trip will be visiting my sister who lives now over there and a vineyard. That we invested in recently and just have me spending some time for about a week, just chilling out, being a bit off grid.

[00:44:30] It will allow me to think and theorize about what I'm going to do, but it will also. Build up, that kind of sense of, I really want to get back at it and, you get that kind of, that hunger goes deeper as well. So that's a really important thing. The other thing I was going to add is that when you are in it, doing it, productivity is essential.

[00:44:48] So you think about how you're going to be efficient during a day and how you're going to be mindful and intentional, because a lot of people are very good at being busy, but not necessarily being productive. [00:45:00] And last year, there was an article in Forbes that covered this concept. I brought up very kindly called the when to do list, because I felt like the, to do lists, it's a recipe for disaster.

[00:45:11] It's a list of things you notionally would like to complete, but never do. The when to do this is simply taking it a step further. It's not just what you want to do, but you assign a time to it. So if I'm in my office, there are set times for everything. And I build into my day, not just meeting. Podcasts with you.

[00:45:30] It will be also at this time, until this time go and have tea with my wife or go and play with the children and people might think. Oh, wow, that's really soulless ritual. Richard. You're scheduling time with your children. But the reason why I win by doing it this way is because if you say. Things like, oh, I'll go and play with my children when I've done this work.

[00:45:50] Or I'll go to the gym at some point today, stuff never gets done, but if you make it mandatory, as much as it's important to breathe in and out or go to certain [00:46:00] business meeting. It's spending that hour with my children or it's going to the gym this morning at six o'clock. Those things are as mandatory stuff gets done.

[00:46:08] There's no dead time, then there's no kind of slippage and it moves you from this ridiculous concept of work and life. And you make it into one big, fun thing where you weave the two together and everything's nightly schedule. So I'm very productive because I'm intentional about how I run the day.

[00:46:26] Hala Taha: Very cool. And I'm totally on the same page. It's all about scheduling your time, blocking out your time being very dedicated. Awesome. So last question, before we go. You have a monetize, you course, where you say you're so convinced this course will generate income for your clients. That you guarantee at least two paying customers within two weeks of completing the lessons and you actually offer to give their money back.

[00:46:49] If you don't make good on your promise.

[00:46:51] Richard Moore: Yes. With the caveat that you have. Do what it says. It's not like magic gift, but yes, a hundred percent, of course. Happy to give money back if it didn't work [00:47:00] and no one's ever done that.

[00:47:01] Hala Taha: And I had Mike Winnet, on my show. Who is a really interesting guest, I don't know if you've heard of him.

[00:47:06] He's a, UK is number one demotivation speaker and he uncovers entrepreneurs. So people who make false promises and prey on those who lack skills like motivation or follow through. You don't seem to be a Contra preneur at all. In fact, You seem like the opposite, like your course actually works. So can you tell us about your course, any success stories that came out of it and where people can find it?

[00:47:30] Richard Moore: Yeah. Thank you. There's been other courses as well, and I love this one. It's one of my babies because I was getting a bit sick and tired a while back about people selling courses, and essentially people weren't buying the course. What they were buying was the hype. And the problem is that you have someone who has learnt something.

[00:47:48] Really difficult or niche like Bitcoin or cryptocurrency or MLM or Forex trading and something that you have to learn. And they're like, oh, you can do it [00:48:00] too. You can make lots of money. But the problem is that not only do you have to learn the process. You also have to learn this new skill. The concept that monetize you, because I was doing so much consulting with solo, preneurs and startups is that you already know something.

[00:48:14] Probably really well that you could monetize and this isn't to make you a millionaire necessarily. This might be that it makes you $700 or something like that. And so what's essential about it is it's leveraging knowledge you already have. And what I show is the process, literally the language. So in, in the direct messages at this moment, when this thing happens, here's what you say, and how you convert.

[00:48:39] And so literally the template. And it's so transparent that there's been wonderful success stories. And one of my favorites was a guy over in Australia and he actually I think he did the course, but I was coaching through it. It was very early days and he was an Uber driver and he wanted to be a [00:49:00] relationship coach to women.

[00:49:01] And the reason why was because he had always been, you know what it's like, there's, it was always that guy. That everyone confided in. He always had great advice and he was like. I'm just innately good at this. Everyone always comes to me for help. And it's here are some processes and steps that will just simply move you from a guy who knows stuff and knows it really well.

[00:49:21] And it gives good advice to how to monetize it. And I think within two or three weeks, and he was like, I've just made $2,000. Onboarding people. And the other one I've got to share was a guy who was, I think it was 21. And he was like, he was just dabbling in trading on his phone. He was really good at it.

[00:49:38] He made good profit every day. And only he did was using the course. He opened a Facebook group, a private Facebook group, and people paid I think it was like $20 a month to watch him. And he said, it's great. Cause I'm literally doing. All I was doing before. There are any differences, I'm saying it to a camera.

[00:49:57] So right now I'm going to make this trade. Here's the reason why, [00:50:00] and $20 a month is nothing, but when you've got 50 people doing it. Then 60 then 90, and then so on a more people watching it. Now you've got this recurring revenue and he's now I've got funds. I can invest as well. So it doesn't matter what it is.

[00:50:12] There's been people who play video games and make money doing it, or someone I've worked with who makes flowers out of card. And it's the same kind of principles. So I love those. Yeah. If you do it right, as in, if you follow the steps and actually put effort in you get results, because it's not difficult.

[00:50:29] Cause it's knowing how to work with people. It's none of the rubbish. Oh, you can do it motivational stuff because that's not particularly useful, when you need the practical right. Done. You get results. That's why all my courses have money back guarantees because if you do them properly, you do get results simple as that.

[00:50:45] But I'm very focused on the practical.

[00:50:47] Hala Taha: Cool. That sounds awesome. Definitely. We'll link to that in all our show notes to your course. Okay. So where can our listeners go to learn more about you and keep up with their latest content?

[00:50:57] Richard Moore: Thank you. And so I am probably most active now [00:51:00] on LinkedIn.

[00:51:00] So if it's Richard Moelis taken annoyingly, or you can go to my website and it' Again, Richard Moore home was taken, so it was the Richard Moore. And you can see all of my social places in there, but I'm happy to take any emails or questions. So you can DM or that no problem.

[00:51:21] Hala Taha: Awesome. Cool. Thanks so much. I love this interview. Appreciate your time.

[00:51:25] Richard Moore: It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on there.

[00:51:28] Hala Taha: Thanks for listening to Young And Profiting Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to write us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to the show.

[00:51:36] Follow us on Instagram @youngprofiting and check us out at and I can chat live with us every single day on YAP Society on Slack. Check out our show notes or for the registration link. You can find me on Instagram @yapwithhala or LinkedIn, just search for my name, Hala Taha. Big thanks to the YAP team for another successful episode.

[00:51:57] This week on YAP. I'd like to give a special thanks [00:52:00] to Hisham for helping to book some awesome guests for the summer. And I'd also like to congratulate Tim and Steves for finishing their undergraduate studies and thank them for their continued dedication to the show. Even during tough times like finals, this is Hala signing off.

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