#127: Sleep Habits for High Performance with Dr. Meeta Singh

[00:00:00] Hala Taha: You're listening to YAP, Young And Profiting Podcast, a place where you can listen, learn, and profit. Welcome to the show. I'm your host Hala Taha. And on Young And Profiting Podcast we investigate a new topic each week and interview some of the brightest minds in the world. My goal is to turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your everyday life.

[00:00:24] No matter your age, profession, or industry, there's no fluff on this podcast and that's on purpose. I'm here to uncover value from my guest by doing the proper research and asking the right questions. If you're new to the show, we've chatted with the likes of ex FBI agents, real estate moguls, self-made billionaires, CEOs, and bestselling authors.

[00:00:46] Our subject matter ranges from enhancing productivity, how to gain influence, the art of entrepreneurship, and more. If you're smart and like to continually improve yourself, hit the subscribe button because you'll love it here at Young [00:01:00] And Profiting Podcast. This week on YAP, we're chatting with Dr. Meeta Singh a sleep medicine, doctor keynote speaker, and sports science trainer whose work focuses on coaching the sleep muscle to help maximize performance in both individual athletes and sports teams.

[00:01:16] Her principle philosophy is to cut through the hype and disinformation about sleep and provide an evidence-based guide to getting your sleep right. Dr. Meeta. Former chief of sleep medicine and medical director at the Henry Ford sleep center and has served as a consultant for the NFL NBA, NHL, and MLB amongst other sports teams.

[00:01:37] Aside from helping athletes get better sleep Meeta also coaches, CEOs, and executives like our former guest David Meltzer, Meeta is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology as a Psychiatrist and Sleep Medicine Subspecialist. In this episode, we talk about why Dr. Meeta became a sleep medicine doctor. The importance of sleep and the real amount of sleep you should be [00:02:00] getting.

[00:02:00] We'll also discuss sleeps effect on decision-making, how to use caffeine in the right way, understanding the difference between insomnia and sleep deprivation and how to get rid of the habit of late night overthinking. If you've been looking to level up your sleep habits for high-performance, this episode is a must.

[00:02:18] Listen. Hi, Dr. Meeta welcome to Young And Profiting Podcast.

[00:02:24] Dr. Meeta Singh: Hello. Thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me a platform

[00:02:27] Hala Taha: Of course, that's what we're here for. I love the topic of sleep. In fact, sleep is one of our most popular topics that we cover on Young And Profiting Podcast. We had Dr.

[00:02:37] Daniel Gartenberg back in episode number 12, and he was actually one of our most popular episodes. So just really excited to dive deeper and see if we can uncover some new gems for our listeners. And before we do that, I do want to introduce you to our listeners. So you are a world famous sleep coach.

[00:02:56] You've coached CEOs like David Meltzer. Who's been on the podcast a [00:03:00] couple of times already. You also coach sports teams, NFL NBA, MLB, you name it. And you even have a world series champion ring, which is huge. We'll get into that later. So you know everything about sleep. You worked at the Henry Ford, a sleep center as well.

[00:03:16] So can't wait to pick your brain, but we always like to get background on our guests at first. And so I'd love to understand how you got into sports? How you got into sleep. From my understanding, you were never into sports as a kid. You were quite nerdy and that's how you ended up going into medicine.

[00:03:33] But I'd love to understand the evolution, what you've done, why you are a sleep expert.

[00:03:38] Dr. Meeta Singh: First of all, I'm not surprised that sleep is so popular. We spend a third of our life sleeping. A third. And so oftentimes almost everybody has some issue. It's such a fascinating subject, right? Everybody wants to learn something about it now.

[00:03:52] So my background, so I am a sleep medicine doctor. I did my training in psychiatry at the Mayo Clinic and [00:04:00] then I came to the Henry Ford Health system to do a training. I did a fellowship in sleep medicine for many years about I've actually been in clinical there. So all along, I've always wanted to work with optimizing sleep with a goal of optimizing performance.

[00:04:18] And it was really easy because I was based in the greater Detroit area in Michigan, and we have the car companies and they often travel there, they're jet lagged, et cetera. So I was helping with them. And then, and of course, sports just happened by happenstance. I heard something on the radio.

[00:04:34] Somebody was like a sleep expert was talking about what they were suggesting to the local NFL team. And I called the team physician for the NFL team. And I was like, whoa. Complete bullshit. And he said why don't you come and give us a talk? And that was about eight or nine years ago.

[00:04:50] And so I started with the, people started on levels, sports has this, it's called the Fort Knox effect, which is it's really difficult to get in. But once you get in [00:05:00] and if you do good work, Then it's easy to get ahead. And so once I started with a local NFL team and I talked to them and the team physician also worked in major league baseball.

[00:05:11] So I started working with them and then the NBA teams and then the NFL, and, I've done some work for international soccer. I've done some work for cricket. I've done some work in major league soccer in the U S and actually I just got about three weeks ago, I got asked to work with the US Soccer, the women's national team, which is going to the Olympics.

[00:05:36] They're the number one soccer team in the world right now in women's. And so

[00:05:40] Hala Taha: it's really cool.

[00:05:41] Dr. Meeta Singh: It's all inspiring. And it's humbling at the same time. It's scary. Exhilarating. It's just a fantastic field to be in. When I started working with professional sports, the parallel is that people who are C-suite executives, top CEOs are lift exact same life.

[00:05:59] They are [00:06:00] like gladiators, right? They always want to be at the level best. And one of the things that suffers a lot is the fact that they're not sleeping. And I remember that when I met David, I think I met him about four or five years ago. He said everything is going so well in my life. I sleep really poorly.

[00:06:16] And so one of the things I was doing is so when you work in sport in sports people, you look at any skill. You are you have a coach who looks at that skill, seeds. If you're doing it correctly, it gives you the how to tools on a one-on-one basis. And basically that's what I did with David.

[00:06:33] And it just word of mouth, because if you do good work with one person, school.

[00:06:39] Hala Taha: I can totally relate. It's all about, I love the fact that you cold emailed someone when you heard somebody on the radio and you're like, I could do better than this. And he just that's. So like me, I do the same thing.

[00:06:50] And to your point, when you're good at your job. It just becomes referrals, and you don't really even have to do advertising. If you guys, if you have strong relationships with [00:07:00] your clients, you'll never have to do an ad in your life because you just get referred and referred same thing with me.

[00:07:05] So totally can relate there. Let's talk about the main topic of today. Let's talk about sleep because there's so much to cover and I really want to get some actionable insights for my listeners. So from my understanding, you were the medical director at Henry Ford Sleep Center. And over there, you really focused on sleep disorders.

[00:07:24] So first of all, what are some of the sleep disorders that we need to know about?

[00:07:28] Dr. Meeta Singh: Okay. So yes, I'm now I'm doing the exact same work, but under my own flag, but for almost 15 or 16 years. So I've been the medical director and the service chief at the Henry Ford Sleep lab here. So sleep medicine as a field is rather young.

[00:07:45] And so it's about 35 years old. Asleep physician. Like I am, We, I am board certified and fellowship trained to evaluate and diagnose any sort of sleep disorder. And then it, and [00:08:00] typically when people come to me, they have either they have difficulty initiating or sleeping or maintaining sleep at night or hell or they're too sleepy or tired during the day or while they're asleep.

[00:08:14] There's something going on that they're not even aware of. So people who snore loudly, who may have sleep apnea, who may have, they may kick their legs a lot at night and that might disrupt their sleep and that results in excessive sleepiness during the day. So those are the kinds of patients I see. I see in my clinical practice.

[00:08:34] Hala Taha: Really interesting. Okay. So like sleep apnea and . I guess those are two really big ones. And so I know that you mentioned earlier, we need to spend one third of our lives sleeping, or we typically spend a third of our lives sleeping. That's a long time. And so why is sleep so important?

[00:08:51] Because we always hear, like you need seven to nine hours of sleep. What does sleep impact for those who don't know?

[00:08:56] Dr. Meeta Singh: That is an excellent question. And I think that the best way [00:09:00] to start for your audience would be to give them a little bit of background, right? So when you're asleep, Hala your brain is disengaged from the environment as well as unresponsive.

[00:09:11] And because your brain is disengaged, it forces both your brain and your body to rest. So unless sleep had some absolutely essential . It would be a colossal waste of time. So imagine while you're asleep, you can't protect yourself. You cannot procreate, you can't eat food or, you can't get nutrition.

[00:09:31] So it really, it has to be serving some essential purpose. Otherwise it would be evolutions biggest mistake. And in fact, now we know that sleep affects every physiological function. So every physiological function that you have is affected, if you don't get enough sleep. So let's, if we don't, we can start with the head, we know sleep exists deep in the brain. So you need sleep to pay attention to. For your reaction time, you need. For [00:10:00] good judgment. If you don't get enough sleep, if you wake up in the morning, you're that part of the brain that's responsible for? Good judgment, multitasking creativity.

[00:10:10] Good. Decision-making gets impaired while the emotional part of your brain becomes overactive. And can you imagine, like there is no other field, there's no job that people can do in which that would be a good thing. That has to be something that people want to avoid. And for people like you, Hala creativity is really important.

[00:10:29] That aspect of creativity in which you take in new information, put it together with previously stored information and then come up with new solutions or, novel ideas that happens while you're sleeping. It's so important. So any information you take in during the day memory consolidation happens at night.

[00:10:46] So that was just the brain. But in fact, and the other thing I would say mental health is, so sleep has this bi-directional relationship with mental health. So if you don't get enough sleep, you're likely to be grumpier. You're more anxious, more,

[00:11:00] less likely to be able to cope with the stresses of the next day.

[00:11:04] And if you can't cope with these stresses, then you're going to be more anxious and that's going to be a bad thing. And I suppose if you go down the body. Your heart, your liver, your kidneys, your every organ you have, has to have that nightly reset in which it prepares for functioning the next day.

[00:11:22] And that's what happens when you're sleeping.

[00:11:25] Hala Taha: It's so interesting how sleep literally impacts everything. It just, it seems like it impacts everything and you wouldn't suspect that the way you sleep might impact the way you perform at work, but it drastically does, like drastically does. So what is the proper amount of sleep that everybody should get?

[00:11:44] Because there are some people out there that's claim they can sleep on two to four hours a night, and is that like BS? Is there a different amount per person? Does it depend on your profession? How much sleep should we get?

[00:11:58] Dr. Meeta Singh: So the simple answer is [00:12:00] that according to the American Academy of sleep medicine, adults need seven to nine hours of sleep.

[00:12:05] There is of course some human variability, right? So somebody may need a little bit more, somebody may need a little less, but if you're getting less than six hours, You're likely to be impaired, but here's the funny part. And that might explain why people say that, oh, I can get by with less sleep. So one of the things that happens when you get less sleep on a chronic basis.

[00:12:26] So instead of getting, if you need about eight hours and instead of eight hours, you're getting six and a half hours every day. And so you're sleep deprived, that sleep deprivation, it accumulates.

[00:12:36] Hala Taha: You get used to it, right?

[00:12:38] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yes, exactly. So that self perception of knowing how sleepy you are, you lose that big.

[00:12:45] So your judgment gets impaired. So it's very much when you're drinking alcohol, the person who's drinking is the last person you should be asking, whether they're fit to drive. Similarly, if you're getting less sleep on a chronic basis, your perception of how much sleep [00:13:00] you need is really off and your judgment is off.

[00:13:02] So I'm not surprised I say that they can get by with Leslie. So of course there's some variability, but yeah. That's answer.

[00:13:10] Hala Taha: That's really interesting because I know what you mean. I, for a long time, I worked in corporate and I had this podcast. And so I had a very busy life where I would get five hours of sleep, honestly, every night, max, sometimes four hours.

[00:13:23] I was really unhealthy at that time because I was just trying to make things happen, and to your point. Once I like quit my full-time job and became an entrepreneur and started getting more sleep. I'm like, wow, I feel so much better. Now that I'm getting all this sleep. I felt like a new person, like just so much more energetic and so much quicker.

[00:13:43] So it is true. Like you just get used to not getting enough sleep. So be careful don't just become a chronic non-sleeper

[00:13:51] Dr. Meeta Singh: I gotta say one thing. So an entrepreneur, one of the things they do is they look at ideas and see whether those ideas are they valid ideas? Are they ideas that are [00:14:00] going to be useful?

[00:14:01] You need judgment for that right? And if you don't get enough sleep, your judgment is impaired. And there's been studies that show that the ability to tell whether an idea or a business idea is viable or not is affected by how much sleep you're getting. And the other thing I'd say is that things like, and especially amongst the people that I work with. When it comes to like top athletes or, CEOs, their emotional intelligence makes a big difference to how they're going to operate, right?

[00:14:32] Whether they have empathy, whether they have the ability to connect with people, but then they have the ability to motivate and inspire the people. That all of that, all those functions, Hala are a function of a well rested brain. You can't really get there if you don't get enough sleep. And the other thing is that because most of the athletes I work with are elite athletes.

[00:14:59] These elite [00:15:00] athletes. One thing that, to be an elite athlete, you need to be able to recognize your emotions and you need to be able to regulate it, those emotions while you're playing, everybody can play really well while you're practicing, but when you're out on the field or when you're on that court and you're, it's the NBA game five going on, you have all that pressure of your coach, your family members, the fans, et cetera, to be able to keep your cool then.

[00:15:29] That is what differentiates you from, another elite athlete. And that's what gives you that competitive edge and guess what that emotional. Every step of that emotional regulation, that is what sleep is important for. So if you don't get enough sleep that gets dysregulated. And I always tell people when I'm working with them, I remind them of that.

[00:15:51] You're very young. You may not even remember. I don't know if you remember that story of Mike Tyson, he was in a fight.

[00:15:56] Hala Taha: Or an invent the air.

[00:15:57] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yeah. So when [00:16:00] he, the year, first of all, he immediately lost. He got fine $3 million and he couldn't play or he couldn't fight for another year. So that's, that decision in which somebody said something, he got angry and decided to pay attention to the situation.

[00:16:16] And then that's decision-making of whether you should respond or walk away. That's split second decision. That's what gets impaired. If you don't get enough sleep.

[00:16:27] Hala Taha: So interesting. I'd love to understand like the science behind it. There's a couple of things that really piqued my interest.

[00:16:34] The fact that you said that creativity is really impacted by how much sleep you get. And then also the judgment decision-making what's like the science behind all of that. Like why does it get impacted if you get less sleep?

[00:16:47] Dr. Meeta Singh: So what we know right now, We can tell, because when you get let in sleep deprivation studies that the part of the brain that are responsible for good decision-making judgment, et [00:17:00] cetera, they get impaired.

[00:17:02] Like they're not lighting up as much as while the amygdala, which is the emotional brain is overactive. So that's the first step in these research studies. And the second research studies and these experiments are designed in which people are either they're sleep deprived or, at another time they get enough sleep and then they're actually, their judgment is measured.

[00:17:22] And in fact, there's this really interesting story from Harvard. And what they found is that when sleep deprived individuals are given stimulants like caffeine or Modafinil, there are drugs out there that can increase your reaction time. They get less sleepy. Their reaction time improves.

[00:17:39] They become faster and more accurate, but the one thing that doesn't get affected is their job. So they just continue to make bad decisions faster. So sleep occurs deep in the brain. And typically what happens while you're sleeping is that there is memories are played and they're there. They may be played at faster rates.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] There is pruning off unnecessary information. There are more connections and circuits being formed of information that you need. There's also this function during your sleep, that while you're asleep, blood rushes through your brain, like a power wash and it washes out all the toxins that have accumulated during the day.

[00:18:20] And so it's the simplest way to explain. It would be to think of it as a nightly reset button. So it's the same thing that happens to a machine, right? Whenever you have a machine, you have to give it some downtime so that it can recover so they can do the work again the next day. So think of it as a nightly investment for your, for optimal functioning the next day.

[00:18:42] Hala Taha: I love that analogy. And I think it's so key to know more about sleep and to care about sleep when you spend so much time sleeping. And I feel like this is like you said, when you said it's 30 years old, your field, it's just this new thing that people are starting to pay attention to, which I think is really cool.

[00:18:58] And I think there's lots of, [00:19:00] there's lots of space in here to create innovation, to create companies money. Like it's a great field to look at, because I think it's really emerging. So let's talk about athletes since we're on the topic of athletes. Do athletes need more sleep than other people?

[00:19:15] Dr. Meeta Singh: So most athletes are young adults. There are studies in which these are sleep extension studies done on Stanford athletes and College athletes. And what they did is over a period of six weeks, they made sure they were spending nine to 10 hours in bed. And they found there was improvement in their reaction time, in the actual games, when in basketball players, the three point field goals.

[00:19:37] And so the actual game improved in football players, they shaved off some time off their, a 40 yard dash. Then in swimmers, they were swimming faster in tennis players. They were served accuracy improved. So there was actual improvement in their performance. And since most people are walking around with a sleep debt, right?

[00:19:57] They're not getting enough sleep. So for athletes, we say on a [00:20:00] regular basis, getting nine to 10 hours is really important. And how about this is not new information? So it act Dr. Timothy Roehrs is used to be one of my colleagues at the Henry Ford Center and they would do these studies in the late eighties and they looked at optimal alertness and they found that to be optimally alert the next day. To do? They want to be optimally enough? So there is a school of thought that says that because you're an athlete and because you want to perform at your level best. You need more sleep than somebody else. So I, and I always tell people that, sleep does not make you a better athlete, but if you're already, no amount of sleep has got to make me a basketball player.

[00:20:39] However, when, when you're an elite athlete and you have those abilities and your competitors are also elite athletes. Then that getting enough sleep gives you that competitive edge. And they're always looking for that little extra that it put them over the edge as compared to their competitors.

[00:20:58] Hala Taha: This is so [00:21:00] interesting to me. So let's talk about ways that we can improve our sleep. So I'm always looking for ways to maximize my time. So I'm wondering, can you get deeper sleep? And then save on the amount of time that you're sleeping. Is there a levels of sleep? Can you explain those levels of sleep?

[00:21:18] And if we get really deep sleep, can we sleep less and get the same benefits or no?

[00:21:24] Dr. Meeta Singh: You're absolutely right. There are different levels or stages of sleep. Now you have to know that these stages of sleep are artificial because scientists have looked at what your brain waves look like while you're asleep and decided. This is stage one and one and two stage three or deep sleep and REM sleep, right?

[00:21:43] So it is artificial. It's from, from outside. But typically people fall into sleep, to light sleep, which is stage and one. Then they have some amount of, and to stay asleep, but just slightly deeper sleep. Then they have M3 or deep sleep or Delta sleep,

[00:22:00] and then they have some amount of dream sleep or REM sleep, and then they wake up and that's an approximately 90 minutes cycle.

[00:22:07] Now, first of all, every stage. So some function. So you really can't get rid of one versus the other. That would be my first point, deep sleep or Delta sleep is the most restorative and if you were regularly not getting enough sleep, then whenever you play catch up, your brain realizes. I have to recuperate, the fact that this person has not been getting enough sleep and your brain will consume more deep sleep that you really can't artificially, or you don't need to artificially increase.

[00:22:36] Hala Taha: You can't like hack it. I can't feel like I'm getting more REM sleep today.

[00:22:40] Dr. Meeta Singh: Well, There are devices out there. There are things out there that say you can get, it can get you better deep sleep. What I'd like to see is a study that shows that, getting sleep this way is better than just normal sleep. Right. So I would say the benefit of that would be maybe in people who are older, who naturally don't get enough [00:23:00] deep sleep.

[00:23:00] So as you get older, as you age, the amount of deep sleep decreases, so that would be a good population to try this study. To see if, increasing that deep sleep would actually help. So deep sleep is where your blood pressure's low. Your heart rate is low. Everything relaxes.

[00:23:14] It's the most restaurateur part. If your, your muscles are relaxed so that it restores, it's where growth hormone gets secreted. So it's kinda good for an athlete. It's good for all of us and what dreams the, usually occurs in the second half of the night and dreams deep is where emotional context is added to your memories.

[00:23:32] And so it also serves some completely inviting function. So I tell people that since every percent, every stage of sleep is a percentage of the total amount of sleep. The best thing you can do Hala is to make sure you get enough time. I don't know, that's bad news because I know you've tried to because you're very busy.

[00:23:51] The other way to look at it is that. And again, I think that you will relate because you're very busy and some of the

[00:24:00] CEOs and CC suite executives or athletes I work with are exactly the same boat, right? They want to maximize the number of hours that they're working, but smart work doesn't always mean working longer, being more effective.

[00:24:17] So work is when you can get work done. And one of the things that happens when you get less sleep is there's this concept of presenteeism in which you're present, but you're not giving it to a level. And that's something, you want to avoid that. So it's no use if you're going to be up and you're, you can't even really pay attention to, can't read, what's written in front of you and you're reading the same line again and again, and you're tired and you're grumpy and you're,

[00:24:41] Hala Taha: making bad decisions like you said before.

[00:24:43] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yeah, exactly. You're making poor relationship decisions with the team that you work with. So when it comes to making sure you get enough sleep. I think I would say common sense, small, simple things can make a big difference. So first of all, [00:25:00] be mindful about the amount of caffeine you drink.

[00:25:02] Hala Taha: I was just going to bring up caffeine because I know that you're not really the biggest proponent of caffeine and.

[00:25:09] Tell me about it. Yeah.

[00:25:10] Dr. Meeta Singh: I wouldn't tell you, caffeine is very effect. It is a performance. It is performance enhancing, but when done correctly. So one of the things that happens is if you drink caffeine on a regular basis. So if you drink one cup every day, in three weeks or so, you're going to need one and a half cups for the same effect and you develop tolerance.

[00:25:30] And when you stop using it, you can get withdrawals. You want to use it when you actually need it. So you want to use it very strategically, but when it comes to sleep, as if you drink it too close to your bedtime, then you're, it's going to make it difficult for you to go to sleep. So path life is about five to six hours.

[00:25:46] And so if you drink. A double espresso before you go to bed. Guess what? You're going to sleep poorly. And sometimes some people are so sleep deprived that it doesn't matter. They'll still fall asleep, but then that case they won't get enough deep sleep. [00:26:00] So how, what good is that doing? So monitor how much caffeine you're drinking specially and lots of people will work out in the evenings.

[00:26:07] So some of your energy drinks pre or post workout drinks may contain caffeine. So you want to pay attention to that? The second thing I would say is pay attention to alcohol, use alcohol. It may help you fall asleep faster, but then it disrupts your sleep as the night progresses. That's not a good thing again, similarly, be careful about nicotine or anything, any such thing.

[00:26:30] The third thing of course is just, electronic. Yeah. So it's especially, if for somebody who's really busy, maybe working with clients, we're all over the world, working at different times zones, and then, you want, you feel that you always have to stay connected, keep your cell phone on, or your email on all the time.

[00:26:48] You're not going to get good sleep. So there's actually a study Hala it was done in training doctors, I think. And what it's found is that if you're on call and your phone's next to you, even if you don't get call the entire night, [00:27:00] you don't sleep very well because that anticipation that you're going to get called.

[00:27:04] And I'm sure that you have people, people who relate to that, that they always feel that somebody might be pinging them. Somebody might be trying to get in touch with them. And so for that reason, electronics might not be a very good time.

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[00:30:57] Super interesting.

[00:30:57] So I just want to dig deeper on, on [00:31:00] the caffeine coffee thing and just make sure I got this right. So you don't recommend nut. Most people wake up and first thing they do is make a cup of coffee. You don't recommend making it a part of your routine like that. You recommend using coffee when you just need it.

[00:31:14] Dr. Meeta Singh: You can definitely drink caffeine. I love drinking coffee. You can make it a regular part of your schedule. If you want to do it, you can do it in the morning. You can do it, a couple of hours of wake up. You know what I've done. There are different schools of thought. What I would say is that if you need caffeine to get through your day and you can't get through the day without caffeine. That should be assigned to you, but you need to do something that you sleep.

[00:31:41] Does that make sense?

[00:31:42] Hala Taha: Yeah.

[00:31:43] Dr. Meeta Singh: And a lot of good athletes will do that. On a regular basis, they may have a cup of coffee in the morning, but they will drink that additional cup in the evening or caffeine energy drink in the evening only before the game, because they know they need that extra energy.

[00:31:58] That is a strategic way of [00:32:00] using caffeine. If you were traveling and you were jet lag, then strategically using caffeine at certain times to make sure you ha you were alert. That would be the right thing.

[00:32:10] Hala Taha: Since you brought up jet lag, I'd love for you to explain what jet lag is. And then also something that you specifically talk about.

[00:32:17] I think you coined this social jet lag. I'd love to hear about both of those two things.

[00:32:21] Dr. Meeta Singh: So let's back up and for your audience, let's explain to them what a circadian clock or a biological, right?

[00:32:26] Hala Taha: That's a great place.

[00:32:28] Dr. Meeta Singh: So now since we live on this rotating rock and because we have alternating night and dark. So all organisms, including human beings, we've developed seven o'clock.

[00:32:38] So in for us, Hala for you. I, and most of us. We have a clock in our brain and the clock is an intrinsic timekeeping clock. And it's about approximately circle means approximately 24 hours. And so even though it's intrinsic on a daily basis, it's reset by exposure to [00:33:00] light and dark. So since I'm in Michigan, my clock is set to Michigan time.

[00:33:05] You know, so that's what happens. So it's synchronized to the local time zone. And so in addition to that clock in the brain, in fact, every cell in your body and every physiological function has a circadian clock. So there's a certain time where some functions their peak and there's a certain time that they tend to add.

[00:33:22] So you're that clock in your brain is like a master conductor. And then all the other clocks in every other cell they're keeping time. And, the master conductor they all coordinate. That's what you want them to. And you wanted, so every cell has a clock because a cell has to have timing because the cell can't grow and die.

[00:33:41] At the same time, there has to be a time where it takes a nutrition, utilizes that your nutrition is active and is resting. So the cell also has to have timed functions. Okay. That was my history lesson. I'm done with that science lesson. I'm done with that. So we have this clock in our brain. [00:34:00] It's synchronized to your local time.

[00:34:01] If you took a jet and you rapidly cross time zones, and you got to a new time zone, your clock would be out of sync at the new time zone. So if I took a plane from here and I flew to London, which is five hours ahead of me, I would have difficulty initiating sleep at the London time. I would have difficulty maintaining sleep and I would be sleeping during the day.

[00:34:23] And and I'd have GI stomach upset because all my clocks would be scrambling to get in sync with the new time zone. That is what. And then social jet lag, which is what most people do is when during the weekday or your work week, you go to bed at a certain time and you wake up. So supposing on our work week, you go to bed about 11 and you wake up, get out of bed at seven, or midnight and seven in the morning. But then here comes the weekend. And instead of going to bed at midnight, you go to bed at three in the morning, and then you sleep until noon and you do that every weekend. And then of course, on Monday on Sunday night, it's more difficult for you to [00:35:00] go back to sleep on in regular time because you've been going to bed so late.

[00:35:03] So without taking a plane, it's you've taken a plane and you flown to California every weekend. That's why it's called social jet lag. And people do this on a regular basis. And what they found is that, when people do this, it has effects on detrimental effects on your cardio-metabolic. Yeah.

[00:35:22] Hala Taha: So I'm assuming you should try to keep a regular routine even through the weekend and then any tips for if we have jet lag or how to counteract that or get ourselves more acclimated. Once we, for on business travel and we have to do a good job and we don't, can't really be jet lagged for a few days.

[00:35:38] What do you recommend?

[00:35:39] Dr. Meeta Singh: So first of all, let's back up and I want to tell you something, when you talked about, regularity, the one thing that your circadian clock does Hala is it also decides whether you're a morning Lark or you're a night owl or you're an intermediate person. So let me just ask you, let me, I'm going to put you on the spot here.

[00:35:59] What time do you [00:36:00] prefer to go to bed? If you didn't have anywhere to go, what time would you like to go to sleep?

[00:36:07] Okay.

[00:36:12] And what time would you. If you didn't have anywhere to go, what time would you like to wake up?

[00:36:17] Hala Taha: 9:00 AM 9:00 AM.

[00:36:18] Dr. Meeta Singh: So one to nine, two. You're definitely a night out right now in contrast. I'm a morning person. So I like to go to bed between, say my 9:30 and then I like to wake up at five in the morning.

[00:36:30] So I want you, I want your audience to understand what that means. So for example, when the clock says midnight on the wall, midnight for me is the middle of the night for you. It's not even the beginning of it.

[00:36:43] Midnight is I should probably start making my way to bed. That's when I started at night beats to me.

[00:36:49] See how biologically, how different we are. And that is just something that people are, that's interesting information and actionable [00:37:00] information that you can use to change things and maybe even change the way you work the next day, because for you to be optimally, like you are probably full of energy between 8:00 PM and 11:30 at night, you could probably do your best work.

[00:37:17] That you're most creative. Yes.

[00:37:20] Hala Taha: 100%. And it actually works out for me because half my team is overseas. And then I have to hop on calls eight, 9:00 PM, but I'm still rocking, so it works for me.

[00:37:29] Dr. Meeta Singh: So for me, if I had to do something really important, if I had an important project and I had to do like deep thinking knowledge work in which I wanted to give it my level best. I would schedule it between five and ten in the morning

[00:37:43] because I'm wide awake, then I'm very creative at that time. That's the time I want to pay attention to things. I really think that this is going to be the wave of the future because sleeping in alignment to your biological clock, if you're [00:38:00] able to do that is wonderful. In fact, I know, David introduced me to this young entrepreneur he's based out on the east coast and, doing really well.

[00:38:08] And one of the main reasons he wanted to talk to me is because he was like, you and I, and he had bought meetings began at eight in the morning and we slowly over the next two years moved those meetings to about 10 of them. So that he could adjust, because he was the boss and he could adjust to all these things.

[00:38:29] And of course there were also things that he needed me to do because as a night out, that if you started watching Netflix at one o'clock or Hala whatever at 12:30. You could easily be up for another two hours. Yes.

[00:38:40] Hala Taha: Yeah. Only thing is I don't watch TV, but yes, in theory. Yes.

[00:38:46] Dr. Meeta Singh: For some people. So it would be easy for somebody who was playing video games or doing something that is distracting them to keep themselves awake. So of course there is some, there is the ability to shift your clock. So I just wanted to bring [00:39:00] this up because people don't really sleep according to their biological clocks.

[00:39:05] And then, because they don't even identify where they lie on long the spectrum. They have difficulty deciding what the right thing for them to do is, and so that's number one, then number two, is that for jet lag and one of them. Really the simplest way to do this would be by strategically using light and maybe even melatonin to help people adjust to the new time zone.

[00:39:27] And it's difficult for me to the easiest way to do this would be by individual when I work, because when I work with teams. So I that's what I do. In fact, I have a couple of game balls here from. From an NFL teams because I've helped them when they've traveled to London to play there and they've been successful or and, last year I worked. I did some work for the LA Lakers and when they were going to China and then few other major league baseball teams when they were going to Tokyo, etcetera, to help.

[00:39:56] And that's what I'm doing with the US soccer.

[00:39:59] Hala Taha: So that they [00:40:00] can perform right. When they get there and be on the ball. It's really interesting stuff. And I guess the question that like, as you're talking. I guess I'm starting to wonder am I really a night owl or did I just fall into this?

[00:40:12] Because I had a side hustle for so long and had to stay up late and just never got out of the habit. You know what I mean? Like I just wonder, like, how do I know if that's really me or just some routine that I've built for myself.

[00:40:26] Dr. Meeta Singh: That's a very good question. So first of all, this Jeanette is a predisposition is typically genetic.

[00:40:33] So either you've inherited it from either your mother, your father. That's why I tell young adults that, it doesn't matter how far you move from your home. Your parents are decide what time go to bed. Because genetics, that's what they do. Yeah. The thing is that there are some clinically validated questionnaires you can use.

[00:40:50] So that is actually one of the things that I w you know, when I'm working with teams, etcetera, or when I'm working with an with one-on-one is to try and identify exactly [00:41:00] where they lie on that spectrum, because you're absolutely right. We do live in this hustle culture where it's really important to be up all the time and.

[00:41:07] You do your creative work in the evening, but my suspicion would be having just talked to you is that you are a night out. Maybe if you put the phone away a little bit earlier, or if you put your your work away, it would be easier for you to fall asleep on the other hand, as long as you're getting enough sleep, and if this works for you, why not?

[00:41:28] Hala Taha: Now I'm on the bus, so it doesn't matter. I could schedule my calls whenever I want.

[00:41:31] Dr. Meeta Singh: And that is important because a lot of people can't do that. A lot of people, they do have difficulty, but to be able to identify that. And I think if you think at the turn of the century. When the industrial revolution came about, the way to get people to work was to set these hours.

[00:41:48] You have to be at work at seven, and then, this is where your first shift would end, and this is how it would work. We've come long way, work. And especially the last two years have, has taught us that we [00:42:00] have, I always tell people that it's what it's taught us is that lost of control is within us.

[00:42:06] And we can't, there's something that we really should try and get a handle on and sleep is one of them. It's like a, it's a trainable skill.

[00:42:15] Hala Taha: Yeah. It really does feel like the LARCs have really made all the rules in terms of what's normal. And then the night owls, I feel like do struggle.

[00:42:22] I think a lot of night owls become entrepreneurs. I really believe that I feel like most entrepreneurs that I know are night owls. And I wonder if it's because they just don't fit into the work culture that's available right now.

[00:42:35] Dr. Meeta Singh: And there may be, I don't know if it's been studied, but there is definitely, it could be true because they say that, there are some nights out who choose to do the night shift because that's the time they're most, or I would say even the reverse would be true.

[00:42:49] So if you're totally a morning person under the worst thing you can do to yourself is to do the night shift or the late afternoon shift, because it will definitely eat into your sleep time. And you're going to, you're going to get. [00:43:00] You're not going to be sleeping in alignment, your clock, and you're going to have the detrimental health effects.

[00:43:07] Hala Taha: Yeah. And I know me being a night owl and working in corporate for so many years. I remember like I used to go to work and be productive, but then I would go home and do more work at eight, nine, cause like I, I would be on fire and okay, let me just get ahead. So that tomorrow is great, cause I'm an overachiever and I'm sure that's tough. Like having to basically work twice just because it's not in your normal rhythm, so definitely something to pay attention to. And you guys should think about whether you're a Larc or night owl. I want to talk about naps next. So what is the importance of naps?

[00:43:38] Are you a proponent of naps? What's the best way to nap. I'd love to hear your input on that.

[00:43:44] Dr. Meeta Singh: So the simplest way to approach it would be to see that if at night you don't get enough. It's not a bad idea to make sure you get enough sleep, but to make up for it by taking a nap. Now, there are two, three things about when it comes to a nap.

[00:43:57] The first thing is the timing of the, or the [00:44:00] length of the nap. A power nap would be 15 to 20, 25 minutes. And that's what astronauts do. It's called the NASA nap in which you give yourself about 25 minutes of sleep time. And it takes you about maybe a few minutes to fall asleep, and then you wake up and you walk in up from light sleep and that's very refreshing.

[00:44:17] And the second length would be about 30 to 35 minutes. Then you get a little. And to sleep, which is slightly deepest sleep. That two is very refreshing. And then of course, there's the granddaddy nap, which is what most NBA players and NFL players do, which is, they sleep for a full sleep cycle or 90 or 120 minutes in which they've consumed a good demand chunk of sleep at night during the day. I would say the one thing you don't want to do is you don't want to wake up from a nap between 45 minutes to an hour, because then you may wake up from deep sleep.

[00:44:49] And if you wake up from deep sleep, you're going to be groggy for a while and so that's a bad thing. Now. That's not a hard and fast rule because if you are very sleep deprived. Anytime you go [00:45:00] into good sleep, remember how I said your brain will try to consume as much deep sleep. So you may go into deep sleep, even faster.

[00:45:06] So I would say still taking a nap is beneficial because you obviously you needed to sleep, which is why you fell asleep. When you were trying to take a nap. When that timing is, there's a timing, a Hala so in the mid afternoon, there's usually a dip in our alerting signal and the sea from the circadian clock.

[00:45:23] So there's a time in the afternoon when we are likely to be tired for me. It's between 1:30 and 4:00 PM for you. It may be later because you're on Itel. So that's a good time to take a nap. But, and the sad thing is you don't want to nap too close to your bedtime. So you don't want to nap the three hours before your bedtime, because then you're going to take away from that sleep drive.

[00:45:43] That's going to help you fall asleep. What I tell athletes, like if you take a nap, wake up for clean, be awake for at least two hours before. Back to a game. So you're not groggy at all.

[00:45:53] Hala Taha: Yeah. That's super helpful. I actually learned about something called the Napa Chino from Daniel pink, who is on my [00:46:00] show and he gave the recommendation to basically have a coffee, take a 20 minute nap, then wake up and you feel like a rock star.

[00:46:07] I've used that hack so many times when I'm like, if I had insomnia, sometimes I get, we can talk about this. Sometimes I get insomnia, especially if I'm feeling anxious or excited about something. I have a very hard time sleeping. And it's the worst because it's usually when I have some big tests or the most important moments of my life, I've been sleep deprived.

[00:46:27] It's been horrible. Like literally every time I had some huge thing I had to try out for, I've had insomnia, like just had to deal with being on no sleep. So very familiar with that terrible situation happening, which I'd love to get some input on. But anyway, what do you think about the NAPA Chino before we move on to insomnia and anxiety?

[00:46:47] Dr. Meeta Singh: It's fine. It's, what's happening? Is it so that caffeine takes about 15 to maybe 30, 20, 25 minutes to take effect. And so if you take a nap in between, then you wake up from your nap and you're, that's refreshing, and then you add gas into it and [00:47:00] that's refreshing too.

[00:47:00] Hala Taha: So win-win okay.

[00:47:02] So you're all for the Napa Chino.

[00:47:04] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yes, but here's what I want to tell you about what you were talking about the insomnia. And I want your audience to recognize the difference between sleep deprivation and insomnia that you're describing. So what we've been talking about Hala so far is not getting to bed on time because people are so busy, that's sleep deprivation.

[00:47:24] So let me give you an example. So if I went to bed, if I flew into town and went to bed at about one in the morning and I had to be up at five, that meant I'd get four hours of sleep. That's sleep deprivation. If however, I got into bed at 10:00 PM and then I got really anxious about this big interview I had with Hala and to not fall asleep till about one o'clock in the morning and then woke up at five.

[00:47:52] Now I'd see me getting about four hours of sleep that's insomnia. So in Somalia is difficulty initiating and maintaining sleep [00:48:00] despite the opportunity to do because I had the opportunity to sleep. It's not as I didn't even get to bed, but I couldn't fall asleep and insomnia and sleep deprivation are two totally different things.

[00:48:13] And it's important when somebody is being evaluated. So one of the things that I do is when I'm first talking to a client or a patient or an athlete, or, whoever I'm working with is to get a complete history as to why they may have insomnia. So for you Hala if you went to bed at decided to go to bed at 11 o'clock and can fall asleep till about 1:30 and you said I can't fall asleep.

[00:48:43] I have insomnia. That's basically because you're a night owl and you tried to go to sleep at a time. That's not your bedroom, or you went into bed at one 30, but there was a lot of external noise and you were in a very noisy place. Or you were in a hotel room, whether it was like a party going on, couldn't [00:49:00] fall asleep.

[00:49:01] That would be more likely to be sleep deprivation cause you couldn't fall asleep. But if you got into that and you're worried and you were really anxious about the next day and you couldn't turn your mind off and can fall asleep, that's insomnia. And I tell people, having an occasional night of insomnia is not a reason to worry.

[00:49:20] So if you are a good sleeper on most times, most nights, but on the occasion, like you sleep really poor. Yeah, what does it matter? You'll see. The next night, and in fact, the more, if you start paying attention to it and start stressing out about it, then it's going to become a problem.

[00:49:36] Hala Taha: Yeah.

[00:49:37] Dr. Meeta Singh: Because now when you're going to get performance, anxiety about sleep and then you're going to develop chronic insomnia. And so it's one thing that I tell CEOs that if you try to get good sleep on a regular basis, occasionally before a board meeting before a big day, if you sleep poorly, yeah. Don't even worry about it.

[00:49:58] Cause that's the only way to approach it. [00:50:00] Occasionally poor nights of sleep part of life. That's the life we will live. So that's okay. But if it happens on a chronic basis and if it starts interfering with your day to day function, then it's a problem. Then it should be.

[00:50:14] Hala Taha: Let's just use me as an example.

[00:50:16] Let's just go for it. Cause I think it will help everybody. So for me, I feel like, I think it's gotten better. And to your point, I think it's gotten better because I've relaxed about my sleep a bit, but for a long time especially when I was getting my MBA, I got a 4.0 I was obsessed with being number one.

[00:50:32] And every time I had a test or had to do a presentation, all I would do is just think about the answers. Think about what I have to say. Think about replay the speech in my head and just wouldn't fall asleep. I would try so hard, but all I would do is just keep thinking and thinking about what I have to do tomorrow and how I have to perform and what I need to do.

[00:50:51] And I still did a good job. Somehow the next day, but almost like I said, almost every big test I ever took or every big presentation I had in my [00:51:00] MBA. I did so on literally, maybe an hour or two of sleep every time, which stinks that happened. But I still was made it happen, but it was just like, I would end up like sleeping on my desk after the test, cause I would be exhausted and would just have this burst of energy and then just like just be dead for the rest of the day.

[00:51:19] So I'd love to hear what do we do when we're in those moments when we're just so anxious and overthinking, which I think is a lot of insomnia for me at least.

[00:51:29] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yes. Yes. And I'll tell you for all of us. I think it's very important to build a winding down schedule. And in addition to the alarm you have at night, in the morning set an alarm at night that tells you now's the time that you're going to start.

[00:51:43] You're winding down. And part of the winding down can be a hot shower or hot bath and any sort of relaxation. Stretching exercises you could do. I love what you said.

[00:51:54] Hala Taha: Just, I just want to point this out an alarm clock to go to sleep. That's brilliant.

[00:51:58] Dr. Meeta Singh: Yes. Yeah. Not to [00:52:00] put to sleep, but to say not let's stop.

[00:52:03] Wait, let's stop with, responding to emails. Let's stop doing things on the phone. Let's stop responding to things and let's start the process of going to bed. And it's really important. And it's more important. The more stressful day you've had. And the analogy I like to give is about a, for an airplane I get when a large airplane or even a small plane. When it's about to land it, doesn't just flop and like land.

[00:52:27] It does all these maneuvers it's reduces its high altitude and then, slows down. And then that it comes and lands. That's exactly what you need to do to allow sleep to happen. And the tools that you can use is you can stretching exercises, meditation, reading. Listening to a podcast, which is something quiet and relaxing.

[00:52:48] And oftentimes that is necessary, especially in the situation you described in which you have difficulty turning your mind off. So really you can't really command yourself to stop thinking. But you can replace it by thinking about something
[00:53:00] else. And if you can try to read, or you can try to do other things that take your mind off, that'll allow sleep to happen.

[00:53:08] And also to have a practice of either meditation or mindfulness, especially during the day is a good idea because, if you're meditating, you become really focused. Your mind clear, you come very calm, you're very collected and you want to be able to use that in those stressful situations.

[00:53:33] Like trying to fall asleep. And there's this thing called. So with this altered state of meditation, you have this state in which the circuitry of your brain has altered in which you're really focused and relaxed. And you want to be able to use that. It becomes like almost like a trait that you use at night, so that if you do wake up the same way that you're looking at your during the day. How meditation or mindfulness teachers used to be [00:54:00] nonjudgmental and, relaxed, you want to be less judgmental about your sleep too, and not then manage yourself that I'm not sleeping well, etcetera.

[00:54:09] So those are all things that one can do to help you relax. And like I said, occasionally getting a poor night of sleep is perfectly fine. If it becomes a chronic thing, speak to your primary care doctor. The American Academy of sleep medicine. And there are a lot of behavioral sleep medicine specialist.

[00:54:27] And all they do is, give you clinically validated therapy.

[00:54:32] Hala Taha: Yeah. Yeah. I, somehow I grew out of it and I think it's, to your point, I was so fixated on, I can't sleep. I can never sleep. I have insomnia. And for two years I just felt like I always had insomnia. Now I have like interview Matthew McConaughey and have no trouble sleeping.

[00:54:47] Like it makes no sense. I'm like, why was I so nervous about my MBA presentation, but I can interview Matthew McConaughey now and get fine sleep.

[00:54:55] Dr. Meeta Singh: That points towards your wiser too. And you're used to this it's [00:55:00] these are things that have happened and has, have come with time to you. This is really interesting.

[00:55:06] I can't tell you how often I started working with people and, we had our first meeting and I take a sleep history and give them some point and they're like, I'm sleeping so well after talking to you because that stress about. Thinking that their sleep is really bad and, judging their own sleep or being really angry about the fact that they're unable to sleep while everybody else is sleeping well.

[00:55:28] And there's nothing as aggravating as turning on and looking at your bed, bathrooms, faucet, sleep, and maybe snoring.

[00:55:35] Hala Taha: Yeah.

[00:55:37] Dr. Meeta Singh: How irritating you. That can be.

[00:55:38] Hala Taha: Yeah.

[00:55:39] Dr. Meeta Singh: It's a process.

[00:55:40] Hala Taha: Cool. I feel like this has been such a valuable interview. I've had so much fun talking about sleep who knew sleep could be so interesting.

[00:55:48] Let's talk about your world series ring, because I'd love for you to flash that up. Show us what that looks like. And then tell us what you did to earn that ring. What are some of the things that you did with that team? [00:56:00]

[00:56:00] Dr. Meeta Singh: So I worked in 2019. I work with the Washington nationals and did the same thing that I actually do with most teams in which it just sleep education, screening, talking to them on an individual basis and really helping them with that travel.

[00:56:15] So the Washington, this was that year. The Washington nationals won the only world series they've had in their franchisee. And they won all their away games because we really worked hard on their schedule. Making sure that they were well rested when they showed up while they were playing. And yeah, it was pretty dark.

[00:56:35] Hala Taha: That is amazing. What a notch on your belt to say that you have that. So the last question that I ask all my guests. And this is your opportunity to give us any sort of gem that you haven't really uncovered yet is what is your secret to profiting in life?

[00:56:51] Dr. Meeta Singh: I would say having genuine relationships.

[00:56:56] The kind of work that you and I do Hala it's all about [00:57:00] building relationships. Like I said, I have never advertised. It's always, when I work with somebody, I work, I give it my level best and then maybe go beyond and it's very rewarding. And I know that it'll, somehow they come back and even if it doesn't because it's rewarding it's worth it.

[00:57:20] Hala Taha: I think that's really great insight. I love that. And where can our listeners go learn more about you and everything that you do?

[00:57:27] Dr. Meeta Singh: So I do have a website it's meetasinghmd.com and I'll send it to you so we can post links. I'm on LinkedIn, as meetasinghmd. I'm on Twitter as @meetasinghmd. One I'm on Instagram as @athletesleepmd/.

[00:57:43] That's it? I'm thinking about starting a YouTube page. I haven't done that as yet. I probably need you Hala.

[00:57:49] Hala Taha: Yeah, we got to talk, but yeah, I will stick all of your social links in there. Dr. Meeta. This was a wonderful interview. I think that we explored so many different topics [00:58:00] about sleep that we haven't heard before yet on this podcast.

[00:58:02] So I appreciate all your time and your wisdom. Thank you so much.

[00:58:06] Dr. Meeta Singh: Thank you for having me.

[00:58:08] Hala Taha: Thanks for listening to Young And Profiting Podcast. If you haven't yet, please take a few minutes to subscribe to the show. So you're always alerted when we drop a new episode and while you're at it. If you have found value in this podcast. If you learned some new sleep tips, drop us a five star review.

[00:58:24] Let me know how you're going to put all these tips into practice from Dr. Meeta. Wow. That conversation was super eye opening, but don't open your eyes too wide because my goal is for everybody listening to get some crate sleep tonight. Dr. Meeta says that we spend a third of our lives sleeping and while we're asleep, our brain is disengaged from our environment and unresponsive.

[00:58:48] It forces our bodies rest. Sleep is absolutely essential for functioning. We need sleep for our reaction time for good judgment to pay attention. It even affects our creativity [00:59:00] without sleep. We're less likely to be able to cope with life's stressors. I had definitely experienced the effects of a lack of sleep.

[00:59:08] There was a point where I was only getting about five hours of sleep a night when I was working YAP as my side hustle and had this agency. I had a podcast and I had a job at Disney and I was really ineffective. I remember feeling so sleepy throughout the day, and once I started to get more sleep, once I became an entrepreneur and could manage my own schedule.

[00:59:29] I really have felt much more energetic, much more high-performing and it goes to show that getting your sleep is super important. Meta said that when we get less sleep, we make decisions that are overly emotional and our prefrontal cortex, which is the part of the brain that is responsible for good judgment gets impaired.

[00:59:47] Everyone wants to do their best and go above and beyond in their job. So in order to do that, everybody tuning in. You got to get that seven to nine hours of sleep to achieve your peak performance. Remember that smart work doesn't mean
[01:00:00] working longer. It means being present and giving it our very best.

[01:00:03] And so in order to do that, you've got to prioritize your sleep. That is step number one. I also think what Meeta said about caffeine was really interesting. If you drink caffeine on a daily basis, you're going to develop a tolerance and eventually have withdrawals. So Meetasays that we can drink coffee on a regular basis.

[01:00:21] But if we need caffeine to get through the day, then that's a sign that we're in trouble and we need to pull back on our caffeine intake. So give it a test, see how you react when you don't have caffeine and try to just keep it to one cup in, in the morning. And that's it. Don't overdo it with your caffeine intake.

[01:00:39] So there's lots of high performers out there who get the right amount of sleep. So take Bill Gates. For example, Bill Gates used to pull all nighters all the time when he was at the beginning of his career at Microsoft. And I think. A theme. When it comes to new entrepreneurs, you tend to just work work, and you do prioritize your sleep.

[01:00:58] And what Bill [01:01:00] Gates says. He says, I knew I wasn't as sharp when I was operating mostly on caffeine and adrenaline, but I was obsessed with my work and I felt like sleeping was lazy. So that's what he said. I can totally relate to that. I feel like when I sleep too much, I'm being lazy, but you've got to turn that thinking on its head.

[01:01:16] Now the billionaire Bill Gates, he gets at least seven hours of sleep. And he says that even if you're convinced, otherwise you've got to get that much sleep. So Bill Gates says at least seven hours a night. Now let's think about. Basis. He's the Amazon founder. He gets eight hours of sleep and he says that amount of sleep helps him make high level decisions that are necessary for his being a senior executive.

[01:01:40] And he says eight hours of sleep makes a big difference for me. I try hard to make that a priority for me to feel energized and excited. I need eight hours of sleep. So Jeff bases needs eight hours of sleep. Bill Gates needs seven and let's take an athlete. LeBron James. So LeBron James is rumor to sleep as much as 12 hours per day during his [01:02:00] season.

[01:02:00] And in the off season, he tries to get at least nine hours. So LeBron really prioritizes his sleep and he says that is the best way for him to recover. So my main takeaway in all of this is that we are all biologically different. I think the amount of sleep that we need depends on our profession. If we're an athlete, we need more sleep.

[01:02:18] If you're something like a surgeon and you are in high stakes situations where if you're not alert, you could jeopardize someone's life or maybe even a cop you should do. At least eight hours or nine hours of sleep. I think that the more high stakes your job is the more sleep that you need, the more decision-making that you do, the more sleep that you need.

[01:02:37] So evaluate your particular situation. And then also look at your habits, your own biological clock. If you're a night owl, or if you're a morning, Larc, you've got to know these things. You got to know yourself and know when you work your best and when you need to be going to sleep and when you need to be waking up.

[01:02:56] So take the time to actually evaluate your sleep schedule [01:03:00] and experiment until you find something that really works for you. If you liked this episode, be sure to check out one of our most highly downloaded episodes about sleep. It's number 12, unlocking the power of sleep with Dr. Daniel Gartenberg. He is a wonderful guest and we had a great conversation.

[01:03:16] We talked a lot about sleep on topics that we didn't cover during this episode. So here's a clip from that episode.

[01:03:23] Dr. Daniel Gartenberg: It's better to. Makeup for your sleep then to not. But that being said, you can't fully make up for the sleep that you've lost in terms of the impact that it has on your body. There are ways to adjust your schedule.

[01:03:41] So that sort of erratic, bedtime wake time from the weekdays or the weekends is less dramatic for the body. So a simple hack to get better quality sleep is to have a consistent sleep wake schedule, cause that entrains your body for when it should be awake and it should be [01:04:00] asleep. And that actually improves your sleep quality.

[01:04:02] And so when you have an erotic bedtime, that kind of makes it for example, more difficult to fall asleep on a Sunday. When you were out till three o'clock. Or it's all over, whatever on that Saturday and you sleep until 11. So here's a real simple hack is if you're out late on a Saturday, try not to sleep in too much and then take a power nap during your circadian day.

[01:04:29] In order to make sure you can get through the day, but also make sure that you're tired when you want to go to bed at around 11:00 PM.

[01:04:38] Hala Taha: Again, if you liked this episode with Dr. Meeta and want to learn more about the importance of sleep, check out number 12, Unlocking The Power Of Sleep with Dr. Daniel Gartenberg as always, I want to shout out one of our recent Apple Podcast reviewer. And this week, shout out, goes to Ray de Lopez.

[01:04:55] Ray says timeless wisdom. You can use throughout your journey. As a young [01:05:00] safety professional. This podcast has been a great tool and my success, even from the first episode, first impressions, the podcast has helped me develop communication organization and leads. What's awesome about this show is regardless of when the episode was aired, it can still be used today.

[01:05:16] I'm so glad you started this. Thank you so much, Ray? I'm so glad I started Young And Profiting Podcast as well. I love hearing from our listeners and I love the fact that you listened to all the way back to episode. Number one, I'm actually thinking about putting that up as a replay soon, because it was such a good episode, even though it was my first episode and I spent months putting that one together.

[01:05:35] So if you guys want to check that out episode number one, first impressions, it was an amazing one. And to everybody listening out there, even if you're a new listener, an old listener, write us for review on Apple Podcasts . That is the number one way to think is here at Young And Profiting Podcasts, it is a free and effective way to support the show.

[01:05:54] You can write it on Apple Podcasts. Castbox Podbean, wherever you listen to the show. And you guys can [01:06:00] also find me on social media. So I'm on Instagram @YoungAndProfiting or LinkedIn, just search my name. It's Hala Taha. And if you guys listened all the way to the end of the show. Take a screenshot of this app.

[01:06:11] You've got some bragging rights right now. Take a screenshot of this app right now, then upload it to your story. Tag me at YAP with Hala. I will reshare it to all my followers and give you a thank you. And we can connect. You can let me know what you thought about the episode. So I'd love to see you guys on social media, tag me in your story at YAP with Hala and big. Thanks to my amazing YAP team as always. I couldn't do this without you guys. This is Hala.