[00:00:00] 

[00:00:57] Hala Taha: Yeah, fam, last week I had one of the [00:01:00] best conversations of the year where I spoke with Adam Schaefer, the co founder of Mind Pump. We ended up talking for nearly two hours. And that's because he was just such a wealth of knowledge. I loved learning from him. I loved hearing his stories. And if you haven't heard part one yet, go back and check that out.

[00:01:17] Now we talk about his rags to riches story and the way that he didn't let himself be a victim, even though he grew up with so much adversity, he was able to push himself and become the incredible entrepreneur that he is today. In part two of this episode, we're really focused on the mind pump business.

[00:01:33] Now, Adam is really the business guy in mind pump. And although they talk a lot about fitness advice, he's actually one of the most accomplished and knowledgeable entrepreneurs that I've ever come across. And we talk about everything in this episode, their marketing message, how they work together as partners.

[00:01:50] We talk about how they approach social media versus podcasts versus email. We even talk about sponsorships. I love the content in this episode. It's so interesting. If [00:02:00] you're a

[00:02:00] a creator entrepreneur, which so many of us are right now, we all need to have some sort of way to connect with our audience online.

[00:02:07] You are not going to want to miss this episode without further delay. Here's my incredible conversation with Adam Schafer. welcome to young and profiting podcast. 

[00:02:17] Adam Schafer: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. 

[00:02:19] Hala Taha: So I want to talk about marketing and your marketing message, because I know that one of the ways that you differentiate in the fitness industry is by telling the truth, at least how you started.

[00:02:30] So talk to us about how intentional you are about your marketing messaging and how you think about the way that you communicate with your audience and the things that you tell them. 

[00:02:40] Adam Schafer: I think that, uh, we were so intentional about it that I think it was nine years ago when I bought the trademark stay authentic for our clothing line.

[00:02:49] What we saw when we got in this space was how fake a lot of it was. It's gotten better, but it still is. I'm sure you know, like how many, how many people are fake successful, fake fit [00:03:00] fake. It's just so much of that. And we quickly saw it right away. And we're like, man, this may be working for these people right now, but eventually they're going to be found out.

[00:03:09] Eventually the customer will get smarter and eventually the messaging will be about authenticity, about being yourself. And that will be the only way to win so much that we decided to go out and trademark stay authentic, because we believe that that wasn't a buzz term. When we trademarked that almost 10 years ago, it was, we believe that that was the direction that come and you hear that now everywhere.

[00:03:28] Anybody who's. Successful like yourself in here that communicate things that are important. I've heard you say it on your show multiple times to authenticity is so, so important to the brand. That's what we led with. We really did that from the very beginning and it was a slower game because it's not as sexy.

[00:03:44] It's not as cool. It's not as trendy. It doesn't go viral, but it it's authentic. It's real. And I think that there's a big mistake in the social media game that people make that again, we were lucky that we did brick and mortar first. And I use the analogy of If I had just started [00:04:00] my brick and mortar gym and I turned the lights on, it's day one and, uh, five customers, what potential customers walked in, how would I treat them?

[00:04:08] And how would I be, what would I be like? And what would I do? Oh man, first five people paid attention to my big, like I'm over there greeting them and talking to them and excited. I mean, I found out all about that. I'm making those five people, my best friends, because I got all the time in the world. I got no customers.

[00:04:22] These are the only five potential customers I have. And so it's wild to me. Cause that's like, that's like rules of business. Like any good business person, 20, 30 years ago would say, of course, of course you would do that. Well then why do so many people treat it differently on social media? Why are they looking for so much?

[00:04:37] So many eyeballs, they want to go viral and have a million people paying attention to them, but then they don't even respond to the one comment or they don't DM and talk to the people. It was like, so I think the strategy that people were doing early on to get famous and get attention was a terrible strategy for a long term business.

[00:04:53] And there was kind of this, what's the term I'm looking for where they get there, it was, it's a false. Perception of what, what [00:05:00] reality is for them. Like meaning they had a million followers and if you've got a million eyeballs on you, I guess you could start a t shirt line and by default you can make a few hundred thousand dollars initially just because you got a million eyeballs, but that's not a really successful business.

[00:05:13] Like it's just because you have that many and by default. One half a percent of them bought something from them. It's like, that's not, and we weren't looking for that. And we knew that, and we didn't want to get into that game. We were like, I don't want to try and compete with all these people doing that.

[00:05:27] Let's go help five people. Let's go change five lives. And this is again, something that we were taught in building a trainer business was I realized. How powerful now, granted, it's great to get leads. It's great to get all these potential customers looking at you or coming into your gym and things like that, but nothing was more powerful than changing that one life.

[00:05:46] I changed that one life and that lady 20 years later is still talking about me. And I still get people that find me from her 20 years ago because I changed her life. Like, holy, the ROI on that is [00:06:00] crazy. How many people has she turned on to me and what I do because I put so much in it. And so we approached even the social media game the same way.

[00:06:09] Let's not try and overcomplicate this and try and go viral and figure out what all the trendy stuff is. Let's go change five lives. Let's go find our people that need our help and just really focus. Cause we would, none of us knew what the hell we were doing in the marketing space of social media. Like we didn't know, but we knew that about business.

[00:06:25] We knew the power and the value of that. And we just looked at it as like, well, this is cool that we're in this place where this is this ability to do it for free and people could find us online. Like. That's a really powerful, unique tool, but let's not overcomplicate it with and measure it by how many followers we have.

[00:06:41] Is this position several? And we were a multimillion dollar business before Instagram even hit 50, 000 followers. And so I tell this to people all the time, you do not need hundreds of thousands, definitely not millions of people YouTube or whatever you don't, what you need to do is go find your [00:07:00] thousand loyal customers.

[00:07:01] And I forget what book that is, or who wrote that. That's a great read. 

[00:07:05] Hala Taha: Seth Godin. 

[00:07:06] Adam Schafer: Yes. Thank you. Your thousand tribe or whatever. Right. So once you, and so that was, it was like, we're on this mission. Let's go find a thousand people that we can, and I think that's such a, it's such a good number because I really did think I felt right around a thousand loyal customers, it was like the business was rocking and rolling.

[00:07:24] I mean, it was just, cause at that time. Once you reach that point where you've changed a thousand, you've got a thousand people out there marketing and advertising for you. And let's say, obviously not all thousand people are out there walking with signs saying, listen to my in public, of course not, but there's enough of them at all times, always doing that they are constantly talking to a family or a friend.

[00:07:42] And that lead is so much more valuable than any paid lead you could ever potentially get in this game. And I've, I've spent tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of And all the different ways that we can advertise on Google and Facebook and Instagram. And we've [00:08:00] always ran these campaigns.

[00:08:01] And then at the end of the day, we come back to organic traffic because those customers are so much better than the lead that I paid all this money to get them to convert right away who don't have a relationship with me. Don't know who I am, but because they got hit with this ad or whatever they converted, like those actually ended up being the worst customers that they're the most difficult to deal with.

[00:08:22] A lot of times, if you have any sort of refunds or cancels, it's coming from those people, they complain the most, like they are the hardest customer and it costs me so much to get them versus if I put out a good piece of content with the intent of helping somebody for free and giving them something super valuable that I learned over my decades of training clients, if I can impact them with one piece of content.

[00:08:43] That goes out and helps like five people, those five people that I help for free on that Instagram post or that YouTube clip or that podcast episode, those five potential leads, oh my God, those people are so much more valuable than the thousand people I just added on Instagram because I paid [00:09:00] for some posts to go, you know, to be pushed out there to a bunch and I just don't think a lot of people realize that I don't think they, they think that the game.

[00:09:08] Is volume. And it's like, no. And in fact, I actually think that that sometimes can convolute what you're doing really well, because you might be getting all this attention. And so you get this idea like, Oh, we're doing really good. But it's like, you're not even attracting your true customers. You're just getting eyeballs and random people.

[00:09:23] And that just causes more headaches and confusion. So yeah, the people that are, you might be doing the right things in your business because you're just, you're so focused on attention, you're getting steered in these wrong directions because you have a bunch of random looky loos who don't even know who you are to, Oh, that sucks.

[00:09:37] Or I don't like that. Or why don't you do more of this? And then you start, we had to be careful this. I remember early on, like not allowing that noise. To steer our mission. Like we know what the goal is. We know what the mission is. Like, of course, there's going to be some haters or some people who don't know us that are going to hop in there.

[00:09:51] You're just going to make some comment about us. Like you can't let that deter your, your mission. And so I do think that that's the problem with a lot of entrepreneurs that are trying to [00:10:00] build on these social platforms is they get so hung up in the, the race to followers game. And it's like, no, you can build a million dollar plus business.

[00:10:07] Off of thousand people, you do not need tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands to build and those people, the lifetime value of those customers. Like, and so that's kind of like, even how we've scaled this business and with all these arms, what we look at is our best customers. And then we ask ourselves, what do those 10, 000 people have in common?

[00:10:28] What are other things that we can serve them, that community, because we've already, we've already won them over on the value of already provided them. I bet you there's something in common with those 10, 000 people. And what are we not doing to provide that? Because they're already bought into us and what we're doing.

[00:10:43] If I can now find a way to service the most common thing, those 10, 000 people have to service them. I've got another business. And so that's kind of how we've continued to stack the business is looking at our customers. And, and we started that way, even when we're just a handful of them of, what are these P these five people have in [00:11:00] common that we can give to them and then build and letting that steer the direction of the company.

[00:11:04] And even though we had that one program and that was initially how we monetized every program thereafter and every revenue stream thereafter has really been steered by the consumer. It's never been, I always tell people that are trying to build a business like It's important that you, you love your ideas because it's important to be passionate about your ideas, but don't marry them and be okay with pivoting.

[00:11:26] And I do think that that is some of the most common traits of really, really successful people is their, their speed and their ability to pivot. And to not hold on to a bad idea or a bad direction because that's what they wanted to do. It's like, okay, I think this is what everybody wants. Let me go put it out there and test it.

[00:11:41] It's like, oh shit. Nobody cares about that. It's like, okay, how quick can I let go of that and move in the direction that I think they all want? Like that's a, that's an important skill set. And really most of all the revenue streams after the very first product have been steered that way of us listening to our already customers and finding how can we continue to add value [00:12:00] and serve them.

[00:12:00] Let's allow the business to come to us like that. 

[00:12:03] Hala Taha: Oh my gosh, you just dropped so many gems. There's a couple of things that I want to add to this. Uh, so I interviewed Gary Vee in person, Mel Robbins in person. And those are two extremely, extremely successful people. And they are of the same mindset of you speak to one person.

[00:12:22] They're not only kind to their following and want to provide value. And like, that's their main concern is like providing value and helping people live better lives. Even in person, they're shaking the videographer's hand. They're thanking everybody. They're kind. The most successful people that I've met are kind, and they want to help other people.

[00:12:39] They didn't get to where they are by being an asshole to everyone, right? They actually want to help people, and you can see that in all their content and everything that they do. So I feel like it's so smart that you were like, let's just focus on five people. So you were able to sort of niche down who the perfect client would be for you.

[00:12:57] And then you listen to them. What do they want? What do they want from you? [00:13:00] How can I add more value, grow the LTV, the lifetime value of this customer? So they buy a course and then maybe they do something more expensive and then they tell their friends. And it's this like flywheel effect that you've basically created with your audience.

[00:13:12] So I think that's just so super cool. My question for you is you've got this podcast, you've got social, you guys have an incredible email list. I heard you say that your podcast and email subscribers are way more valuable than your social followers. 

[00:13:27] Adam Schafer: Oh, by far, we could shut off. We can, when we, we tested this.

[00:13:31] Back when Sal got kicked off. So this was about two years ago, right? It was right in the heart, like right in the thick of the COVID stuff that was going on. And Sal sometimes can, can say stuff politically. And at that time, that was a very dangerous thing to do on social media. He has the, I don't give a shit attitude.

[00:13:48] And so do all of us who were like, go for it. Say what you want to say, do what you want to do. And, uh, he was removed. So he was kicked off of Facebook, our Facebook and Instagram, uh, multiple times, and, uh, we had our, our [00:14:00] best revenue run at that time. We didn't feel an ounce of that. He had the biggest Instagram page.

[00:14:05] He had the most engagement. So he had the most powerful Instagram out of all of us at that time. And he was completely removed off of it for six months, eight months, something like that. And, uh, we continued to scale during that entire time. And so it was, it really made us realize that these assets are good and are powerful and a tool.

[00:14:24] But they're not necessary for us because we had a very strong foundation from the podcast, from the email list, from building these, these customers, this whole conversation you and I've been having. If you truly change the lives of a thousand people like that, they'll follow you. They'll find you. They will.

[00:14:39] They will. They will. You could shut down all plat and I believe that from us right now, we could turn everything off, go to some other random platform no one's ever heard of. And maybe not everybody, but a good portion of people, they will find us. I mean, we just did the, you know, the Spotify wraps. That come out and like that just came out.

[00:14:55] I love when those come out. Cause it gives me, I get to peer into some more insight that I don't get to see. And I love [00:15:00] data numbers like that. And for 40, 000, over 40, 000 people. We were the number one thing they listened to all year in on, on Spotify. And that's just Spotify. That's, and that's our small, one of our smallest platforms.

[00:15:13] We are significantly bigger on iTunes and about the same in the podcast on YouTube. And so to think that 40, 000 people for an entire year listened to mind pump more than anything else in their ears is crazy to think that. And I confidently believe that, so at least 40, 000 of those people would find us no matter where we're at.

[00:15:32] And 40, 000 people listen to me every single day is more than enough people to build a livelihood for all of us here, right? So, social, I think is, is a great tool to have and a compliment, another way to connect with your audience, another way to tell your story, kind of like a little bit of a business card too, like, so.

[00:15:51] It has its place and it's valuable, but we don't place a lot of value on a single thing. And this was again, intentful, right? Like we, we always agreed that [00:16:00] we wanted to, we wanted to own our audience. Like we didn't want to, cause I had never heard horror stories of people that I knew that were making really big money on Facebook or Snapchat.

[00:16:08] And then all of a sudden the algorithm changed and they were losing tens of thousands of dollars like overnight and we knew that early on. So we were always like, listen, we have to find ways to connect to our people on so many different platforms and build a relationship so well that it didn't matter if these platforms got weird or shut down or like that.

[00:16:25] Like we want to control. And so we were mindful of that early. And so we built, although I will admit that I was naive and for the first two years did not build an email list. I say, this is the biggest regret or mistake that my pump ever made. And I'm responsible for this. I actually thought, and this was a learning curve for me.

[00:16:43] I thought that social media replaced email marketing. I really was. I thought that that was what we were seeing happening. I couldn't have been further from the truth. What I have realized over all these years of doing this now is that they're just, they're different, they're different monsters in there.

[00:16:57] And every medium is that way too. So for the people that are entrepreneurs are [00:17:00] listening. It's very, very clear that I have a Spotify audience. I have a YouTube audience. I have an Instagram audience. I have an email audience. Now there is definitely a crossover on all of these platforms. There's a problem.

[00:17:11] And I would, if I had to put a number on it, I'd say five or 10 percent of these people maybe cross over all platforms. But for the most part, most people stick to the platform. They consume all their content out and that's, they would consider themselves a YouTube person or an Instagram person. And so, It's important to learn your voice on each platform and know like how you communicate on email is a little bit different than how you communicate on the podcast.

[00:17:34] I remember when we first learned this mistake, when we started the YouTube channel, we'd already been pocket. We'd already been doing pretty well with the podcast. We weren't on YouTube yet because we kind of thought, who the hell wants to watch three idiots talk in a chair, you know, fitness for an hour and a half.

[00:17:48] So we were like, that's ridiculous. We won't do that. But we did go, well, we are personal trainers. And so we can give out exercise videos that, and that add value, right? How do we add value to our listeners already? Let's teach them visually like exercises. [00:18:00] That's a good way to bolster the business agreed.

[00:18:02] Okay. We all did well, this worked for the podcast. So let's do this on YouTube channel. So if you go back on our YouTube channel, You'll see how we used to start every YouTube episode on the, on the exercise channel. And it was literally the three of us making jokes and talking all silly and goofy and being ourselves.

[00:18:18] And Doug would swoop in with a camera and like the first, I don't know, two minutes of the YouTube video, which is supposed to be exercise tutorial videos. Was us, you know, joshing each other and having fun and teasing and kind of like talking, you know, telling a story and then we would get into the exercise demo and we just thought because that was the formula for the podcast that, okay, it'll work on YouTube.

[00:18:39] And it like, it kept falling on its face and people were commenting like crazy. This is stupid. Who are these idiots? I don't get to the exercise. Tell us how to do this. And we kind of ignored that for a while. And it took a while before we realized like, Oh, wait a second. It was funny because when I look back, it was so obvious, right?

[00:18:55] It's like, how do I use YouTube? If I want to learn how to bake a cake and I [00:19:00] YouTube that recipe, do I want the person to be talking five minutes about jokes in their personal life before they get to it, I'm going to skip it. I'm gonna go right. Give me the guy or the girl that gets right to the recipe and teaches me.

[00:19:10] That's why I searched for this. What are these idiots doing talking? And why do I need all three of them? Like, I mean, looking back, I go, oh, of course, but we didn't know that. And I didn't know that until we tried that and we realized like, oh, okay. Okay. Wow. These platforms are really different and everybody uses it in different ways.

[00:19:26] And so learning how to take your overall arching mission and voice. And shape it into whatever medium that you are using, how we write long form content like white papers is so different to how we do short form emails is so different to how we do one minute reels is so different to how we do hour and a half long podcasts.

[00:19:47] And it took a while to kind of really figure out how we change those, but yet stay. On brand authentic to who we are and continue to communicate the message that we're trying to do. But understanding on each platform, [00:20:00] we're speaking from a different voice, but to this day, the email marketing, which I thought was dead is responsible for about 40 percent of maps fitness products revenue every single month, which is hundreds of thousands of dollars every single month that I thought was dead.

[00:20:14] And so we were a little bit behind when we, when we started actually capturing emails. 

[00:20:20] Hala Taha: Yeah, I love email so much. I'm like obsessed with writing newsletters and I just feel like it's such a great tool. I think it has like 30 times more ROI than social media. So I think that you're smart. 

[00:20:31]   

[00:20:40] I relate to audio being so much different to YouTube because YouTube Every video is sort of like its own thing.

[00:20:47] Hala Taha: Like it could go off by itself. People can find a random video. And so they're not your fans. And so they're a lot meaner in the comments. Whereas like my reviews on my podcast, everybody loves it. Oh, Holly changed my life. I love her so much on [00:21:00] YouTube. It's like, do you hear your own voice? You have the worst voice.

[00:21:02] They're like, stop wearing so much lip gloss. I'm like, these are not my fans. Like 

[00:21:07] Adam Schafer: YouTube is, I tell people like, before you get into YouTube, you better have some thick skin because it's a bunch of. It's a bunch of teenage boys on there. That's like 80 percent of the platform is, but the teenage mean ass boys sitting at home in their basement with their mom, just trying to talk shit and troll people.

[00:21:23] So I tell people like, before you get on YouTube, you better have thick skin because it is just like you, we had like, if I want to get emotional. And feel really good about what we're doing. And I'll go on and I'll read iTunes reviews. 

[00:21:34] Hala Taha: Exactly. Apple reviews. They're so nice. 

[00:21:38] Adam Schafer: Oh yeah. We have thousands of reviews that will, will bring a tear to your eye.

[00:21:42] The stuff that people say about us. And I mean, it's literally like 99. 99 percent five star. That's like how awesome the podcast reviews. So I used to go on there all the time when I want to feel good about myself, like, Oh, I'll read those reviews for the day. YouTube, complete opposite. Like if I want to ruin my day and be upset.

[00:21:58] All I got to do is go to the latest YouTube [00:22:00] video and just read comments because rarely ever are those comments even close to what the comments we get. So it is true. You have to learn the mediums and how people use them and understand what the game you're kind of playing with those people. And so, and you can't let it bother you.

[00:22:14] You really have to be okay with like, that's just the nature of the beast is I'm communicating this to people that aren't necessarily the people that I. I've put a lot of work into building value with, these are people that literally just randomly found me today, have no idea who I am. They don't know my character.

[00:22:28] They don't know where I come from. They don't know any of that stuff. And they're just going to say shit to say shit. So you got to be careful if you let those things get to you. 

[00:22:35] Hala Taha: Totally. So as we're talking about all this and you're saying, you know, we got to figure out how we sound like on Instagram versus email versus YouTube versus podcasts.

[00:22:46] As an entrepreneur nowadays, you really got to be online. Like you really can't do it, especially if you're an online entrepreneur, right? You've got to have some sort of personal brand, some sort of presence. We're also running companies. If somebody is overwhelmed, [00:23:00] where do they start? What advice do you have for them?

[00:23:02] Adam Schafer: Great question. And I love to answer this question because, uh, I do think that it can be overwhelming at first. Like, oh my God, everyone's telling me, Gary Vee has a good saying too, of like looking at it, like. Real estate assets. And you just want to start, you want to acquire all these things and allow it to organically grow over time.

[00:23:18] And, but like, it could still be like daunting of like, where do I start? What I do, what the advice that I give is most people, hopefully, especially if you're an entrepreneurship, know this about yourself. Enough to know that what you like doing the most, meaning like, so I can't put three sentences together grammatically.

[00:23:37] I just am the worst of all of us. So I do not touch copy. I do not write emails. Like I would be the worst for that. So being an E like I would be a horrible person to write our emails. I would be a horrible person to write our 5, 000 word documents that we give out for free. Like. I can't, that would be a tear.

[00:23:53] And if I was doing this all by myself, that's not the first place I would, I would do go to. And eventually what I'd probably do is build the other [00:24:00] businesses up and then hire somebody who has that skillset better than me. So I tell people to lean into what you like doing best or what you know that you do best.

[00:24:09] And so you might not know what you do best yet. But probably that's going to be where you like, where you like. So if you, if you do really well talking for an hour and a half and you have a lot to say, and you have a lot of experience on that, I think podcasting is really good, but podcasting will kill you.

[00:24:23] If you're relatively new, you don't have a lot of information. You don't articulate well, you can't storytell. If you can't do those things, then like podcasting is a surefire way for you to tank right away. Maybe you're really good at like very poignant things. One minute I can, I can give, drop some knowledge on somebody in one minute or give them a tip that's super value.

[00:24:44] Oh, then maybe like Instagram reels or Tik TOK is a really good place for you to start. Maybe you're somebody who's like really good with like a camera and you understand lighting and you take really aesthetically pleasing pictures and you know, you can write witty captions and you're really good at like tying like something that's [00:25:00] fun and informative, like it together.

[00:25:01] And you can write an Instagram caption. Well, maybe Instagram. Is the place that you lean into, right? So maybe you're really good about talking one on one to a camera vlog style on YouTube. And so you do like vlogging on YouTube. But I would, my recommendation is, is decide what that is for you. Whether you, you try it all out and kind of figure out, Oh, this is what I'm better at.

[00:25:20] Or you already know that about yourself. Like I obviously knew, I'm not the person to write. I didn't need to go try that. It was just like that. I'm not good That's not a strength. Let's lean. Let's go somewhere else so my advice is to lean into the thing that you feel most comfortable with because Every one of those mediums like I said before is like a different business for us So you can be successful at whatever it is that you have to offer On any one of those mediums and you're most likely to be successful on the one that you like doing And that you're good at.

[00:25:47] And so instead of like spreading yourself thin and trying to do a little bit of all of it and kind of being like a Jack of all trades, instead of an Ace of one, like literally hone in on the one or two things that you communicate best on [00:26:00] and really double and triple down on figuring that out, because I think you could build a sustainable business on one platform, although I think there's tremendous value.

[00:26:07] And being on all of them, stay in your lane first, get really good at it. And then if you are like me, you learn to outsource and you outsource that, or you learn those other platforms over time. And you'll learn a lot just by growing a community on one of them first. So that's typically what I recommend to people.

[00:26:25] Hala Taha: Such good advice. last question on business. I know that there's a lot of creator entrepreneurs out there right now. This is the world that we live in. So a lot of entrepreneurs also have a large following, which means that they're probably getting brands approaching them for sponsorships. So would love to understand if you guys are taking sponsorships and how you go about thinking about the brand partnerships that you go with.

[00:26:49] Adam Schafer: I love that we, we got here because one of the things I'm most proud of that we did was I think we really disrupted the advertising space on podcast. So [00:27:00] 10 years ago when we came in this, this is relatively new. No big brands are advertising on podcasts yet. Very few people realize what a powerful medium it is.

[00:27:08] So the companies are pretty sparse. Although in the fitness space, there was a lot of like supplement companies and a lot of these companies were, were there, they were figuring this out early on. And what was really good was that we were so protective of the brand and our branding and this and our, our, our voice.

[00:27:25] That we didn't want to convolute it with other brands and other people's voice and direction and vision. So we agreed that we may never take advertising. So we said that early on, we said, you know what, we can build a successful business and we don't need to take on advertising sponsorship money from any.

[00:27:41] And it obviously, when we hit new northerly and we were getting out there, we are getting approached right away. And of course there's a temptation when you're making no money and someone says. I'll give you a thousand dollars to do a commercial on your show every day or what like that. Would you take it like, Oh, wow, a thousand bucks.

[00:27:54] We're making no money. That's money. Like let's do it. It's reoccurring. But we agreed. No way. Like this is not an [00:28:00] end. And we did that for several years. So we were getting actually kind of bombarded by a lot of companies. I mean, it's not like Nike was coming up to us and these brands that we'd be like, I mean, if that would have happened, I'm sure we would have been over the moon, but that ain't happening.

[00:28:10] If you're just building your business and you're just getting started, those huge companies are not. Going after the small entrepreneur that's getting their first thousand listeners. What you're getting is a lot of other startup companies, a lot of their supplement companies, small brands that know that they could probably offer you a couple hundred bucks because to you, that's a lot of money because you're just getting started.

[00:28:28] And so it's appealing and it's great for them because if they can spend a couple hundred bucks to get a thousand or a few thousand people to hear about their brand, it's great ROI for them. So it is very selfish on their end. It's a completely motivated by that. It's a numbers game. Plus at that time. I, so I was here before people realized how powerful podcasting was.

[00:28:46] And I've been here after the companies were really taking advantage of a lot of the podcasting. And I actually, luckily I had enough of business acumen to recognize that right away. Whoa, wait a second. You're going to pay me just based off of listens the [00:29:00] same. So let me get this straight. You have three guys have a marketing sales background.

[00:29:05] We pride ourselves on being really good at that. We've built an incredibly community. Our community might be small. My only be 5, 000 people right now. But you're going to pay me the exact same amount of money as this other, just random person who might not have a relationship, might not have any sales skills, the same, just based off of CPMs, just off of downloads.

[00:29:21] That's how you decide how much you're like, no way, no way. I know how, I know how valuable even my five customers are because those five customers, they'll go do, they'll go buy anything I tell them to, because I've already built that relationship with them. So you can, and, and use for the audience, let me tell you how, how important and powerful this is.

[00:29:38] We have a lot of brands that we work with that work with someone like Joe Rogan. And Joe Rogan obviously is way bigger than us. We are their number one advertising partner over Joe Rogan. And that's not because we're anywhere close to as big as he is, but it's because the relationship that we have built with our community, those 40, 000 people that have listened to us more than [00:30:00] anything else on their podcast.

[00:30:01] Those are like real customers. They buy almost anything that we recommend. And so we were very careful to protect that. We didn't want to just to, just to make a couple extra bucks here or there. We didn't want to take advantage of that. So, and we actually told that story on the podcast while we were growing.

[00:30:16] So if you go back far enough, you can hear me share on the podcast. Oh yeah, this company tried to get us to sponsor with them and we would talk about it on the show and we tell them, no way. We're not going to send our people that way and this and that. And oh, you're just another supplement company doing this.

[00:30:29] And we vetted them and they're, and we would like openly talk about potentially taking on advertisers and saying no to people for a very long time. So the, the small audience that got to hear that and then the ones that were coming on could hear it for a long time. And then when we started to take partnerships on, they weren't people that were reaching out to us.

[00:30:47] I began to go after companies that I was interested in. If it was a product or a clothing line or something that I liked, I used, the guys all love, I'm like, you know what? Let me reach out to them. They don't know who we are. We're not big enough for them to be on [00:31:00] their radar. But let me get on the phone with them.

[00:31:02] And so I would reach out to these companies and the initial conversation would be like, Oh, who are you? What do you do? And I'd have to sell them on how big our audience is, even though it was still pretty small at that time. And what we do and our mission and most of it. Okay. We'd hit it off relationship wise.

[00:31:17] And then it'd come down to money. Like, wait, we're not. I don't know if we're going to pay you guys that much. We don't know what the ROI on that is. And so if it was a brand that I believed in, that I liked, that I wanted a partnership, one of the ways that I would lead with them is to say, Hey, listen, this is my commitment to you.

[00:31:29] I like your brand so much. I don't want just an advertising deal with you guys. I want to build a partnership and a relationship. So we don't do. Advertising affiliate type deals. We build partnerships and relationships, and this is how much I'm committed to that with you. So we have the podcast, which is our biggest media where we get the, probably the best ROI and also this is how much I think our commercials are worth.

[00:31:51] And if you do not make that money back, I will guarantee you to get it. Because what I'll do is I'll use my email list. I'll use my Instagram. I'll use Facebook. I'll use all my [00:32:00] other platforms. To make good on that deal. And they were like, really? I said, yeah. So it's zero risk for you. You spend 5, 000 with me.

[00:32:07] I will guarantee you 5, 000 back. I think the podcast will do it, but if the podcast doesn't, you communicate with my team weekly. I have a person on point who does this every Monday. You talk to her, you let her know if we're underperforming on numbers, then our job will be then to make sure that we bring those up using our other social media platforms.

[00:32:24] So we never sold any other medium. We only sold the podcast. And then I would agree to them that I will deliver on ROI. We built a reputation around that. And then before long, we were the podcast that everybody was like, go work with MindPump because you're guaranteed not to lose. And so then I had people banging down my door, asking to advertise.

[00:32:43] And so then I got to be very picky and choosy with the brands that aligned, that I love, that I wanted to work with. And it was less about the exact dollar amount. It was more about building that relationship with brands that align with us and that our customers we thought would like. And so at first, when we do the first year, 60, [00:33:00] 000 or something in advertising, something like that, it'll do over 5 million in advertising now.

[00:33:06] But it started as this small revenue stream that we didn't need that. We said, Hey, let's go build it this way. And I didn't see anybody else making promises like that in the space. The conversations I had were awesome. They would go, Oh my God, like nobody is doing that. You guys are going to guarantee us that.

[00:33:22] Yeah, I'm going to guarantee you, because my goal Is it present you a price that I'm pretty confident that we can deliver on the podcast. And my goal is to not use it because I don't want to convolute my message on social media. So if you go through my social media, you won't see any brands. You won't see any promotion.

[00:33:36] I don't do any of that stuff, especially on my personal page. None of that stuff happens. Because I don't want to do that, but I care enough about the relationship that if I needed to bring that brand up to show them to make good on on a deal like that, then I would. And so now when you fast forward, what is it, seven years or so later when we started, I go into 2025 by August of this year.

[00:33:56] We have all advertising locked out completely for 2025 [00:34:00] contract signed. There's no opt out, there's no negotiation, there's no minimum marks. There's no nothing. It's, this is what it costs. This is where the spots are. You're paid for the year and then we deliver. And so we've built that reputation with brands that it's cool.

[00:34:15] Now it was work. The beginning, it was a lot of work to build those relationships, to find those companies, to prove that to them. But now we have a reputation. We have a reputation in the space that you want to work with us. And so now it's cool. Like I had a last year, I don't know if you're familiar with the brand chili or Ulers, their, their sleep bed pads, whatever that business went under last year, we were partners with him for like two or three years.

[00:34:37] Working with that company. And we found out, we didn't know that their business was going under the way we found out was through their competitor. Eight sleep had been wanting to work with us for so long. I had been watching the market knew that that company was going under before we knew they were going under.

[00:34:53] They were still under contract with us and still paying their bills. So we didn't, we weren't the wiser. But they were about to go under, they reach out to us and say, Hey, [00:35:00] they're going to, they're not going to be able to continue sponsorship next year. We know how long of a wait list you guys have. We want in on next year.

[00:35:05] We're willing to put money down right now to guarantee that we can advertise with you guys. Because we know that you're not gonna be able to sponsor them. We're a better product. We'll send you, let us send you a couple mattresses right now so you can try the product ahead of time. That's the type of relationship building that we've done with partners.

[00:35:19] And that's how bad people want to work with the company. But it wasn't built overnight. It was built over years of building relationships. And being very careful and meticulous about who we work with as a sponsorship and a partnership, uh, on the show. And if you chase the, the little bit of initial money you might get, it could really tarnish a brand and a relationship that you have with your customers.

[00:35:42] Whereas now. Because our, and we took our audience along with that journey, they know like if we, if we, if there's a new company we're working with and we drop it, like people go run and buy it before they even think twice about it. They don't, they know that we did all that vetting and they know we wouldn't represent them if they weren't a brand that's [00:36:00] awesome or that aligns with our community.

[00:36:02] And so that's really served us today. And now it's one of the most powerful revenue streams that, that we have that we didn't intend on having. 

[00:36:10] Hala Taha: I love to hear about this because this is what I do for a living. I own a podcast network, so I represent like Jenna Kutcher and Amy Porterfield and John Lee Dumas and all these top business podcasts, and I get them sponsorships, and so it's just so cool to hear from like somebody who's been in the game for even longer than me.

[00:36:28] And it has like pioneered we're doing. We. Have a lot of similarities in the terms, in terms of like how we sell the fact that you were including other channels to guarantee and all that cool stuff. So for me, that was awesome to just hear somebody like you share all that insight. So thank you so much.

[00:36:43]   

[00:36:52] Before we go one question about fitness. We didn't talk about fitness at all because you have so much business acumen. You're the business guy [00:37:00] of Mind Pump. What is one piece of fitness advice that you could give to entrepreneurs specifically? 

[00:37:06] Adam Schafer: I think in general, and this goes for entrepreneurs and just people in general when it comes to Working out and fitness is that we over complicate it because there's so much noise and what's the best exercise program?

[00:37:18] What's the best diet? What's the best this? And it's like, honestly, if you lift weights two hours to three hours tops a week, that's it. Strength train, focus on the big lifts, squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press. That by itself and approach working out like a skill, not a punishment. You don't go into your workout, trying to get a crazy sweat.

[00:37:41] You're not trying to chase being super sore. Go in, practice those movements, get good at them, get strong and slowly do that. Just and consistency matters more than anything else. That's the first thing related to like what to do exercise wise, don't overcomplicate it, focus on those things. Exercise is not a form of punishment.

[00:37:58] The biggest mistake people [00:38:00] make is over applying intensity and volume takes very little to elicit that, to elicit that change and to get the body adapting to want to build muscle. And then feed it properly with making sure you hit your protein intake. That's the simple advice. Why you want to do this as an entrepreneur.

[00:38:14] And I'm reminded of this every time I fall off the wagon or I'm on an off streak of say 30 days where I might not have lifted or something like that because I'm busy. And I tell myself this, the same excuse, like, Oh my God, I'm so busy. I can't get to my, my work and workout, or, Oh, I don't have time at this time.

[00:38:29] I've got all this going on this and that. It is wild how much more time you get when you work out. You are a, you're a better husband, you're a better wife, you're a better business partner, you're a better entrepreneur, you have more energy, you have more stamina, you sleep better, you're sharper, you have more cognitive, I mean, you are just better when you are a healthier version of yourself, so if you really care about being very successful in entrepreneurship, and you, which the skill sets are, Speed, stamina, like your acumen, your [00:39:00] cognitive function, like these things all matter when you want to be successful, the healthier, stronger version of you is better on all those attributes, all of them.

[00:39:08] They all come up and you even get more time in the day. I know that sounds weird. Like, wait, how does that make sense? You're telling me that I work out for an hour and I get more. Yes, because it's wild. What happens? And the why that is, is because every minute of your day is slightly more productive than it would be if you're not working out and those minutes in the day or the entire day add up way more than the 50 minutes that you committed to that workout.

[00:39:31] And so do it. Your future successful entrepreneurial self will thank you because you made time to do that and you will get the time back and you'll get the return on investment tenfold being a healthier, stronger version of yourself. 

[00:39:44] Hala Taha: So good. Adam, this has been an incredible conversation. I really, really enjoyed it.

[00:39:49] I usually don't go almost two hours as my guest. So thank you for your time. It's been an hour and 45 minutes, but it's been awesome. you are like so knowledgeable, just so impressed with you. I end my show [00:40:00] with two questions. We can be quick with them.

[00:40:02] What is one actionable thing my young and profiteers can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? 

[00:40:08] Adam Schafer: To become more profitable. Here's what I'm going to lean into. And that, because it didn't hit me until I was 26 and that was the pursuit of daily growth. I wasn't, I didn't come from a big family of reading and I didn't think of that as something as something that would return on my investment, but holy crap.

[00:40:25] Is that, and I know that, uh, uh, Alex Ramosi, right. It says this a lot too, talks about like, I love the way he talks about when someone asks him how to invest 10, 000 when that would, you know, how do I do this? I'm 20 years old, I have 10, 000. And he's like, Reinvest in yourself, go grow your skill sets in the marketplace because nothing is going to give you a greater return on your investment than improving who you are.

[00:40:47] Get better, get growing and hold yourself accountable that on a daily, on a daily, like go ask yourself at the end of every day. What did I learn today? How did I get better at my craft? How did I become a better person? [00:41:00] What did I read and learn? And if you are, you're stringing days together, where you don't have an answer to that, that's your first thing to go do right now, is don't let a day go by that you're not growing and learning and improving yourself, because that shit starts to compound.

[00:41:14] And when you look back five years later, And boy, will you be so much more valuable in the marketplace five years later of doing that every single day than if you just kind of haphazardly go about it. 

[00:41:24] Hala Taha: So true. And what is your secret to profiting in life? This can go beyond business, beyond finance, can go beyond what we even talked about today.

[00:41:32] Adam Schafer: So the single best piece of advice that was ever given to me changed my life. I'll tell you the short version of it. I had just finished crushing goal at my gym, 110 percent of goal. The boss came in, I was proud of myself. I was excited. I thought he was coming in to tell me how great I was. And he came in and he picked me apart, told me I was all the things I was doing wrong and this, that, and it just, it broke my heart inside, but that's not who I am.

[00:41:54] What did I do? Work harder. So I was in the back, just working on all these things, getting my paperwork work, being better at all the things that he [00:42:00] said. And my, later on, who became a best friend of mine, who was the manager at that time, comes back and he sees me on the desk working on stuff. And he goes, what the F are you doing?

[00:42:08] And he swipes everything on the table. And I looked at him and went, boss came in, he told me I'm not doing this. He says, Adam, listen, you're in the position that you're in, at this young of an age, for a reason. Stop focusing on the things that you're not good at. Focus on what you're good at and be fucking great.

[00:42:22] And that just hit me like a ton of bricks. And it's just like, he's like, go be great at what you're at. And so I tell people like, don't get hung up on your weaknesses and the things that you're not so good at. Lean into the things. That you love and that you're good at and become an expert and become great at those things that will serve you so much more.

[00:42:39] Hala Taha: Such a good story. Adam, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? 

[00:42:44] Adam Schafer: Ah, look up mind pump. I love to send people to mindpumpfree. com because that's a lot of where all of our free resources, free resources are. You can find the show on any platform out there. Don't buy anything from me.

[00:42:55] Go listen to all the free, valuable content I have first, and then hopefully you'll become a listener too. [00:43:00] 

[00:43:00] Hala Taha: Amazing. Adam, you are welcome back whenever you'd like. Thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast. 

[00:43:06] Adam Schafer: Thank you all. 

[00:43:11] Hala Taha: Well, that wraps up my two part interview with Adam Schafer. And there was so much here to take away from his approach to marketing and audience building. It was a masterclass. And I think the one big thing that I really took away from this conversation is that so many entrepreneurs and businesses, they're chasing followers, they're chasing trends on social media, and it ends up that they lose sight of their true audience.

[00:43:38] It becomes just like a pure numbers game. But remember that getting eyeballs is way different than getting customers. And if you focus too much energy on getting people's attention online by going viral and following algorithms and trends, you could get steered in the wrong direction and away from actually helping people and the people that [00:44:00] need your help the most.

[00:44:01] So, if you're getting started and you feel overwhelmed by the world of online marketing, then do what Adam did. Go help that one person who values your particular expertise, skill, or product. Help them change their life for the better. Then once you help that person, go help five other people. Like Adam said, the return on investment from changing a life is worth so much more than views, clicks, or paid advertising.

[00:44:27] And if you build that loyal following organically, brick by brick, follower by follower, by providing value, then that audience will follow you across platforms and to other products and services. You've built yourself an audience based business. And if one platform changes its algorithm, you won't be stuck trying to rebuild or relocate your audience.

[00:44:53] Thank you for being a loyal follower of this podcast. If you listened, learned, and profited from this [00:45:00] conversation, then help us spread the word about Young and Profiting Podcast and share this episode with somebody else. And if you did enjoy the show and you learned something, and you're a loyal listener, a loyal subscriber, Then drop us a five star review on Apple Podcasts.

[00:45:14] If you're a new listener, let me know what you thought about the show and make sure you don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you want to watch all of our podcasts on videos, you can find us on YouTube. My YouTube channel is growing really fast. I think you guys are going to love it.

[00:45:29] You can also find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Hala Taha. 

[00:45:35] And of course, I got to take a moment to thank my young and profiting podcast team at gap media You guys are absolute rock stars. It takes a whole village to put on this show. We've got producers video editors audio editors bookings team, sponsorship coordinators. You guys are so amazing. You make this podcast an incredible show and it's really thanks to all your hard work.

[00:45:59] I couldn't [00:46:00] do it without you. This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the Podcast Princess, signing off.