[00:00:00] Hala Taha: Young Improfiters, [00:01:00] welcome back to the show. And today we have a true real estate icon joining us, Dave Linegar. Dave Linegar is the co founder of REMAX, which he co founded with his wife, Gail, in 1973. REMAX is now one of the largest. Real estate franchises to have ever existed, and he's got over 8, 000 offices, 125, 000 sales agents.

[00:01:21] He's done an incredible job leading this organization over the past five decades. Dave is no longer the CEO at REMAX, but he still holds a leadership position as chairman, and he was CEO for 45 years plus. Dave is going to tell us all about his leadership principles. He's got a new book called Perfect Ten, which we're going to be discussing.

[00:01:41] So without further delay, here's my conversation with real estate mogul, Dave Linegar. 

[00:01:46] Dave, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. 

[00:01:50] Dave Liniger: Hey, Hawa. Thank you very much. It's nice to join you today. 

[00:01:54] Hala Taha: I'm really looking forward to this interview because we are speaking right now to a real estate legend. You have [00:02:00] built a remarkable legacy in the real estate industry. You're the co founder of REMAX.

[00:02:04] It's one of the largest real estate franchises in the world, and you led that company for 45 years plus as CEO. You're still involved 50 years later, and that's a long time in leadership. So my first question to you is, how your leadership style has evolved over the years? Because I could imagine with all that experience and so many years that it's evolved several times.

[00:02:27] So that's my warm up question to you. How has your leadership style evolved? 

[00:02:31] Dave Liniger: How I was very young when I Tried to go to college. I was just barely 17. I wasn't disciplined. My mommy and daddy weren't there to tell me to study every night and I failed. Not failed because I was stupid. My ACT scores are out of the world.

[00:02:54] I was undisciplined. I didn't have the maturity that I needed. I [00:03:00] finally gave up on this college route and ended up joining the United States Air Force and went to Vietnam. I spent six years in the Air Force. It bought me six years to mature as a young man. So, everybody knows that I'm Young women, they're pretty mature at 18, and young men, sometimes it takes them an extra 30 years to get there.

[00:03:26] And that bought me the time to mature enough to where I knew where I wanted to go. 

[00:03:32] Hala Taha: And so you actually started your career and you started as an entrepreneur before you even had a college degree. You didn't have a college degree or a management degree. Did you have some level of imposter syndrome before you started REMAX because of this?

[00:03:47] Dave Liniger: No, I was so confident in my abilities being a combat vet that I just felt I could blow my way through the China closet and we'd be okay. So the thing that was the defining moment [00:04:00] was I realized I was not sophisticated. I did not have management experience to speak of. And I looked for an administrative vice president.

[00:04:11] By the way, they were all women. I interviewed 27 people. I said no to 27. And the 28th was magic. It was a woman by the name of Gail Main. She was a new bride, trailing spouse, followed her husband to MayDNF stores from St. Louis, where she had had her college and her management experience. And he brought her to Denver.

[00:04:40] She really wasn't serious about being an administrative vice president. I told her, I said, look, she was charismatic, she was confident, she was well poised. I said, I don't know how to run a real estate business. I can be a sales manager, I can be a trainer, but I need somebody that could find [00:05:00] office space, rent it, buy furniture, hire secretaries and bookkeepers and receptionists.

[00:05:06] And run the company and I got lucky, I was so lucky she said, yes, I told her I was going to build the biggest real estate company in history and very naively believed it. And so fast forward 10 years, she ran the business, I was on the road selling franchises, opening offices, expanding the company, and we both grew together, but we complimented each other's abilities and lack of abilities.

[00:05:38] And so I'm the super salesman, she was the super leader, and she did end up becoming CEO of the company. We were not romantically involved for 10 years, and at the end of 10 years, every officer I had had become divorced. We fell in love with this [00:06:00] crazy mistress called Remax that, hey, he's standing on a stage in front of a thousand, ten thousand people, and it's mesmerizing.

[00:06:09] You And so it was just natural that we had no friends outside the company. And she and I became incredibly close. So I have to tell you, 51 years is my partner, 41 years is my wife, and she was awesome and we made the perfect pair complimenting each other. 

[00:06:30] Hala Taha: Oh, I love that story. And I love to hear how you were able to create a successful business with your partner.

[00:06:36] And I love to hear that it actually started as a business relationship and evolved into something more fulfilling and romantic. So I'm going to get to hiring later on in the interview, but first I want to focus on your leadership management style. When you first started at REMAX, how are you as a leader compared to how you are as a leader now?

[00:06:56] Dave Liniger: Unfortunately, I was stubborn. I was. [00:07:00] Too aggressive and I thought I had all the answers in the world and fast forward 50 years of growing up and maturing and figuring it out is I look back on those days and think, Oh, my God, how the hell did we succeed and in essence, I am the direct result of people, mentors, managers, leaders, Books, seminars of trying to find my way to success.

[00:07:36] And I was blessed with the most amazing group of people around me that when I was failing the first two or three years, I sat down and I said, I'm screwing up. I know I'm not doing a good job. What am I doing? Right? What am I doing wrong? And realtors will tell you the truth. Our managers of our [00:08:00] offices that Gail and I started were 20 years older than us.

[00:08:03] And they sat down and they took me to the woodshed and I said, I'm coachable. I'm not smart, but I'm sure coachable. Tell me how to be the leader you want me to be. And those people, and all the other things that happened in 50 years, changed me immensely as a leader and a human being. 

[00:08:25] Hala Taha: Feedback is so important, and maybe we can start here when we're thinking about leadership and principles and things like that.

[00:08:33] I'm an entrepreneur, I have 60 employees, and I can easily take feedback from the closest people that work with me, but it's really hard for me to hear feedback from other employees that don't work directly with me because I feel like they don't understand how hard I'm working and everything going on behind the scenes.

[00:08:54] What's your advice to leaders to get better at receiving feedback, no matter who it's from? 

[00:08:59] Dave Liniger: Well, [00:09:00] this isn't the answer you want. It's ignore it. Everybody. has an opinion. That doesn't mean everybody is right. If you're succeeding at what you're doing, criticism comes with a job title and everybody's going to think I could do her job better than she can.

[00:09:21] That's nonsense. If you're the entrepreneur and you built a business, some clerk in the mailroom has not got the ability to tell you how the hell to run your business. So, I always tell everybody, you will get advice from many sources. Whatever you do, you're the boss. You own it, you live with it, and you die with it.

[00:09:45] Never let an attorney, or an accountant, or a consultant run your business. If they run into the ground, they walk away and you pay their fee. You are the person responsible for your corporation. [00:10:00] Believe in yourself and charge forward. Listen to your confidants and be willing to accept criticism. It's okay because we all make mistakes, but you just can't take the people that have no concept of what it's like to be responsible for an enterprise.

[00:10:22] Hala Taha: I totally agree. I'm happy you gave me that advice because that's what I told my confidants. I had a situation where somebody gave me this book of feedback. And when I read it, my heart sunk because I was like, man, she has no idea what she's talking about. I can't listen to this feedback. And I kind of just threw it away and moved on.

[00:10:40] So I'm glad you're on the same page here. So Dave, you've got this new book. It's called Perfect Ten, Ten Leadership Principles to Achieve True Independence, Extreme Wealth, and Huge Success. Now, I have a lot of people that come on the show, and especially lately, a lot of people don't define success with money and [00:11:00] working harder and independence and things like that anymore.

[00:11:04] So I want to understand your perspective of what success means. What does success mean to you? 

[00:11:09] Dave Liniger: Each individual has to determine success for themselves. The best definition I have ever heard of success. Is bannered about by three or four of the platform speakers, and it's very simple. I want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, where I want to do it, how I want to do it, and with who I want to do it.

[00:11:31] And that is success. So, I'm 79. I had a critical injury. 12, 13 years ago, I survived it. I can't do the things that I did before. I drove NASCAR, I flew aerobatic jet planes, I scuba dived all over the world, I skydived, I did all these things. And all of a sudden, you wake up and you're paralyzed. [00:12:00] I was a quad for almost a year.

[00:12:02] And so, then you start thinking, what is success? And I realized doors open and doors close. And as much as I'd love to be a Daytona in February, leading the poll, ain't never going to happen at a man my age with my reflexes and my strength and my ability. So the doors closed, but other doors open up. So I was very fortunate.

[00:12:31] One time I had a dinner with a marvelous actress. She was 30 years older than me. And I asked her about, well, you were young and you were extraordinarily beautiful. You're a screen star. What's it like now to be in your sixties? And that dinner was a lasting impression to me. She said, when I was young, I was like a vibrant, young, [00:13:00] wild, tasty wine.

[00:13:03] And now 30, 40 years later, I'm a different taste of wine. I've mellowed. But I'm still strong and I'm happy with who I am. I've never forgotten that conversation because that's our world. We all will age and the starting quarterback that was MVP after 35 is never going to be there again. And so you have to come to a feeling of that was then, this is now, who can I be now?

[00:13:37] Hala Taha: I love that. I love that concept of your goalposts always changing and that there's different goals at different stages of life. I think that's. Really beautiful. What was your goal in writing The Perfect Ten? Why did you write this book? 

[00:13:51] Dave Liniger: A legacy? I was helped by dozens and dozens of people. Building a real estate company [00:14:00] with major conventions, you hire the best speakers that are out there, you become bosom buddies with them and they accept their check and you get their advice.

[00:14:11] But you grow. And I made so many mistakes. Because I'm so immature and uneducated. The College of Hard Knocks is a hell of an education. Most people can't afford the tuition. And so, there's not an original thought in the book. I try to put that in the foreword of, Hey, I have learned from the shoulders of giants, of the very best in the world.

[00:14:40] None of this is original to me. It's all been passed down over hundreds of years, and the knowledge of Aristotle, anybody back in the time, is just as relevant today. It's 2, 000 years later, and we still think the [00:15:00] same way they thought. Our abilities have changed because of education, but in reality, common sense is common sense.

[00:15:09] And so, every one of us should learn everything we can from anybody else. 

[00:15:14] Hala Taha: Yeah, I totally agree and I know you're such a proponent of reading and I loved reading your book and hearing about the stories from other entrepreneurs and writers and things like that. So, a lot of people who are tuning in, they are entrepreneurs and I know that you invest in businesses.

[00:15:30] And in your book, you say the most important question that you ask an entrepreneur when considering to invest in their business is, why are you starting this business? And you say, there's just one right answer to this. You're not looking for any Answer, except for one right answer. Can you tell us this answer and why responding in this way is so important to you?

[00:15:50] Dave Liniger: How do you want to change the world? Are you starting this thing to get rich? Are you starting this thing to dump it in five years and walk with a [00:16:00] big paycheck and retire in Tahiti? What's your cause? What's your why? Why are you so passionate about this business that you're starting? 

[00:16:12] Hala Taha: why is passion so important to you?

[00:16:14] Because a lot of people say, don't follow your passion. Passion doesn't make you money, but why do you feel like passion makes a good entrepreneur? 

[00:16:21] Dave Liniger: If you're dreaming, dream big, shoot for the moon, don't have little bitty goals, have a giant goal. My goal was to build the largest, most successful real estate company in the history of the world.

[00:16:38] With big dreams. come big obstacles. If you have a passion and you believe it and you go to sleep at night thinking about it and you get up in the morning thinking about, I've got to get to the office because this is, this is my world. This is my passion. You can get over the day to day mistakes and problems [00:17:00] that you will face.

[00:17:01] You have to be a dreamer. You're an entrepreneur, you know that. I can make the world a better place. I'm not here to make more money. I'm here to change people's lives. 

[00:17:12] Hala Taha: It's so true. When building my company, I pay attention to the numbers and stuff, but that's definitely not what motivates me.

[00:17:18] What motivates me is just keep building and innovating and growing a team and making an impact. So when it comes to entrepreneurship, you obviously are literally one of the most accomplished entrepreneurs in the world. Can you talk about the personality traits and the skills that you think are conducive to entrepreneurship?

[00:17:36] Sure. 

[00:17:37] Dave Liniger: I have a marketing background, sales background, selling franchises, and so on. A lot of people say the marketing person is not going to be a good manager, not going to be a good leader. I totally disagree. If you're a real estate agent, and you're service oriented, and you give a damn about your customer, and [00:18:00] you care more about them than you do about your commission, You're going to be a success.

[00:18:05] Zig Ziglar, motivational speaker from 40 years ago. And he said one time, people don't care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. And that even at age 20, as a real estate agent in the military with a crew cut haircut and 130 pounds, I'm somebody's teenage kid. I succeeded because I have managed to convince the customer that I'm I will work my tail off for you, and I will never sell you something that's not right, and I don't care if I make a commission or not, I'm going to solve your problem.

[00:18:45] Once I had that reputation, it made no difference if I was 20 or 30. And so, I think the most important aspect is, you do have to have a passion. You have to figure out, what [00:19:00] difference am I going to make in the world? Now, if I can say this very modestly, for 10 years, I was the youngest person in Remix.

[00:19:10] Unfortunately, 50 years later, many of my people I sold to in the 70s and 80s have retired and passed away. The biggest joy I have in my life is having letters sent to me and my wife, you changed my life. I created wealth for my family I never had. The life I thought I would have, you have impacted me so immensely.

[00:19:39] I want you to know that before I die. That's what leadership is. Leadership is not stock options. Leadership is not I'm CEO. Look at me. Leadership is. Did you turn around and put your hand down to help the next person come up a couple more steps up the mountain? And that is [00:20:00] total gratification. 

[00:20:02] Hala Taha: I completely agree.

[00:20:03] I feel like the impact you make on other people is such a big part of leadership and getting motivated as a leader. Another aspect that you call out in your book in terms of what makes a good leader is patience. And you highlight the power of optimism in a story with Ernest Shackleton and his crew's survival in Antarctica.

[00:20:23] Can you share that story with us? 

[00:20:25] Dave Liniger: Ernest Shackleton was a unique individual. He was born in a family, and I can't remember, six daughters and him, the youngest. And the daughters have a unique impression on him. And an era 1907, 1910, where the general said jump and the private had to say how high on the way up command and control, he was unique.

[00:20:57] Women are unique business people [00:21:00] and most of them are more compassionate. Most of them. like to ask everybody's opinion and how are we going to succeed at this instead of a command and control situation. So he was a hundred years ahead of his time. They get stuck in the ice near the South Pole. They get frozen in.

[00:21:24] The ice gets stronger and stronger. They're happy in their little boat. They had food, warmth, and the boat starts to crumble, and they have to get out and live on the ice floe. And so he had 27 men, they got out on the ice, and they had to live for over a year and a half. At the end of their journey, every man wrote in their diary, he was the single greatest leader They'd ever met in their life.

[00:21:58] He put people in [00:22:00] tents, two and three people to a tent. And every day he visited each tent and sat and said, how are we doing? What's your thoughts? What do you suggest we do? Do we pull our lifeboats and try to get to land? Do we do this? Do we do that? It was a very feminine management trait at that time, which is very unusual.

[00:22:24] And so he brought them all home alive. By the way, in his diary, he wanted to kill him. He literally had three or four people he just wanted to shoot, but he didn't. He was one of the greatest leaders we've ever seen in our lifetime. And every man, and I'm sorry, it was all men, every man said, this is the greatest leader I've ever worked with.

[00:22:50] It's an amazing story of survival in desperate means, with not enough food, not enough sunlight, not enough warmth, [00:23:00] and he brought them all home. 

[00:23:01] Hala Taha: And I know that one of the things that he did was actually lead by example. And he was helping them on the ground. He was very hands on in making sure that everybody was going to be okay and everything got done that needed to get done for survival, right?

[00:23:17] But I know that, bringing it back to modern times, the more that you scale your business, when you first start as an entrepreneur, you're more hands on because you're starting the business from scratch. You're involved in everything. But then as you hire and scale and hire and scale and hire and scale, you naturally start to just get more strategic and less hands on.

[00:23:36] So how can we actually lead by example as our company scales? 

[00:23:39] Dave Liniger: I have a concept I read about called, we all carry the boxes. I felt as a leader that I had to do everything that my employees did to prove that I'll work just as hard as you will. Had an interesting [00:24:00] situation with a black gentleman that became one of my best friends of my entire life.

[00:24:06] I was going on speaking tours five days a week. I always took some younger people with me to set up the meeting rooms and just help set up the autograph booths and all that stuff. And this young gentleman, every place we stopped and we flew in, would grab my briefcase, grab my suitcase. Let me get that for you, Mr.

[00:24:28] Leningrad. It was like, I finally looked at him and I said, Koran, I'm a man. I can carry my own damn briefcase. The last stop of the week was Washington, D. C., Dulles. We were at a Marriott, and I had a whole bunch of stuff I was carrying. Briefcase, suitcase, overhead projector, and all this crap. And I got to the door, and I said, Cron, would you get the door for me?

[00:24:57] And he looked at me and he says, you're a man gets your [00:25:00] own damn door. I knew on that moment, he was not scared of me. I knew at that moment he had a sense of humor and he just didn't give a damn. And he became one of my top officers in my life. And one of his friends, because he showed the aptitude of, I'm not kissing your butt.

[00:25:23] You know, you can be temperamental with me. I'll be right temperamental back with you. And I was 30 years older than him. And so, you know, when you look for leadership, you look for people that are afraid. You look at people that are willing to just grab it and go for it. And he was. 

[00:25:41] 

[00:25:45] I know building trust and credibility is so important for team building and for people to follow you.

[00:25:56] Hala Taha: What is your best advice for building trust and credibility with your team? [00:26:00] 

[00:26:00] Dave Liniger: The first thing you have to understand is loyalty is a two way street and loyalty starts at the top going down, not the down going up. It is your responsibility to be totally 100 percent loyal to your employees. Herb Kelleher, founder of Southwest Airlines, gave a speech, I was sitting in the front row, and he said, the customer is not always right.

[00:26:30] He said, if you have a drunk passenger who is harassing your flight attendants and being just a mess, throw them off your fucking airplane. He took the side of his employees and said, you're valued to me more than that customer is. The customer is not always right. My employees are doing their job. If they're right, we don't want that customer.

[00:26:56] Loyalty starts top down. If you're [00:27:00] loyal to your employees, your vendors, your customers. The loyalty will be replayed. 

[00:27:07] Hala Taha: I know that in your book, you also say you have to be fair and responsible to all your stakeholders, right? You can't just only focus on your customers. You've got to think if you've got shareholders, board members, employees, vendors, there's so many other people to care about.

[00:27:23] So I know there's a lot of priority balancing. How do you suggest we handle that? 

[00:27:29] Dave Liniger: Oh, this is controversial. I think that everybody needs to be treated fair, but not equal. So, if I have a good franchisee in Canyon City, Colorado, that has 15 agents, and that individual calls me and says, Dave, will you come to my Christmas party?

[00:27:52] Will you come to my New Year's? Grand opening. And I have to say, no, I have 9, 000 offices and I [00:28:00] can't be there. I can do a DVD or a hyperlink and say hi to everybody. If my biggest broker in California has 100 pre max offices and he says, can you fly out to my meeting with my agents? The answer's hell yes.

[00:28:21] I'm sorry. I can't go to 15 agents. I can go to 2000 agents. And so you have to start prioritizing the fact of everybody's valuable, but you have such limited personal time to care for the network. You have to run the business. You have to do all the things you have as an entrepreneur. And you still have to try to have friendships and personal relationships.

[00:28:53] And so, fair, but not necessarily equal. 

[00:28:57] Hala Taha: Such good advice. You also highlight [00:29:00] vulnerability as a leadership strength. So, how do you suggest we be more vulnerable? 

[00:29:05] Dave Liniger: That's easy. just be who you are. If you make a mistake, admit it immediately. Don't be phony. Don't be false. Don't be superhero. Don't be Wonder Woman.

[00:29:18] Just say, Hey, team, I screwed up. I made a mistake. I'm sincerely sorry. I will not make the same mistake twice. And it's amazing. Your employees will be very forgiving. They don't want you to be God. They don't want you to be different than them. They want to know that you're a human being. 

[00:29:40] Hala Taha: I learned something from Howard Behar.

[00:29:42] So I interviewed Howard Behar years ago. He's the president of Starbucks, former president of Starbucks for many years. And he told me something that I'll never forget about leadership. He said, Hey, Hey, Only the truth sounds like the truth. So he had a period of time where he had to lay off thousands of employees at [00:30:00] once.

[00:30:00] And he was debating on what he should tell people. And his assistant told him, Howard, only the truth sounds like the truth. And he went into his team and he told them, we've got to lay people off because of XYZ. He just told them the truth. And everybody was really understanding. And I never forgot that lesson, because I feel like as a leader, sometimes you just got to tell the truth.

[00:30:23] And people usually will accept it and be kind about it and understand. 

[00:30:29] Dave Liniger: People are incredibly kind. They like transparency. They like honesty. And the hardest thing in the world is laying people off because of the economy or whatever it might be. You're affecting their lives. You can't sugarcoat it, and I had to do layoffs twice in RE MAX's history, and I'm sorry.

[00:30:51] I'm a manly man. I cried both times. They knew that I hurt having to lay them off. [00:31:00] 

[00:31:00] Hala Taha: So speaking of RE MAX, let's talk about RE MAX for a bit and some of the entrepreneurial things that you learned along the way. Can you tell us about how you first came up with the name of RE MAX? 

[00:31:12] Dave Liniger: Well, we sat around having shots of tequila, some salt and some lime, and nobody wanted to call it Dave Leninger Real Estate.

[00:31:22] I thought that was pretty egotistical. And at the time, Esso had just changed the name to Exxon. They'd spent millions of dollars on this trademark, only to find out it was a fake. The foul language in a different country. But anyway, it was five letters and a couple of slashes. And we sat around, we said, well, remix.

[00:31:46] That's real estate maximums. Maximum commission to the agent. Maximum service to the customer with no part timers or beginners. Maximum profit for the broker owner. And we came up with RE MAX. And we looked at that and said, [00:32:00] somebody's going to think there's a Mr. or Mrs. RE MAX. We took the periods out through a slash and five Vietnam vets, so we had a red, white, and blue sign.

[00:32:13] A lot of market research went into this. 

[00:32:17] Hala Taha: Your balloon logo is one of the most recognizable logos in the world. So you as an entrepreneur were really good at recognizing opportunity. Can you talk about how you disrupted the business model that was traditionally in real estate and how you disrupted it?

[00:32:32] Dave Liniger: In 1973, the traditional commission split between a real estate agent and the owner of the office was 50 50. The owner of the office used their 50 percent to pay overhead, marketing, secretaries, rent, etc., and make a profit. The agent Yeah, they're 50 percent, but they had to pay for their automobile. Nobody pays for retirement for real estate agents.

[00:32:59] Nobody pays [00:33:00] for social security or insurance or whatever. And so, in reality, a real estate agent never did make 50 50. After paying their own personal expenses and stuff, they were more like, I don't know, 80 20 or 75 25. And so, we looked at it and said, why not have an office like a group of doctors, lawyers, architects, or dentists that shares office space, pays their own personal expenses, and they're part of the office space, and keeps the majority for themselves.

[00:33:33] Cheaper than going into business for yourself. And the end result was, as we started the company, the split changed about 85 15. So, very controversial. The industry hated it. They hated me. Today I'm an icon. But I outlived everybody. Because they were all in their 40s and 50s when they were trying to drive me out of business.

[00:33:59] And [00:34:00] so, as a model, we changed the entire real estate industry's commission splits. 

[00:34:05] Hala Taha: Yeah, and something else that you did differently is that your perspective of who the customer was changed. So originally the customer was the buyer, the seller, and now the customer was the agent. Can you tell us more about that?

[00:34:19] Dave Liniger: I decided that I was not in the real estate business, I was in the real estate agent business. And my job was to create an environment where real estate agents could be more successful than any place else in the world. They were. In the real estate business, they handle the buyers and sellers. We stuck with that for 50 some years.

[00:34:41] It is the backbone of our company. Our average agent has twice the experience and three times the sales volume of other full time realtors in the world, and it worked. 

[00:34:54] Hala Taha: Now how can people outside of the real estate industry took what you did and leverage it for [00:35:00] their industry? 

[00:35:01] Dave Liniger: As we started to expand REMAX from Colorado with an amazing success story after five years, and we went into the various markets, and we went to Atlanta, and they said, Well, we don't steal each other's agents down here.

[00:35:17] We're kind of genteel. And we went to Chicago, and they said, You guys are cowboys. You wear cowboy clothes and blue jeans. We're sophisticated. We have coats and ties. Went to Quebec, they said, you don't even speak French. So everybody said, we're different, we're different, we're different. And as we went around the world, every country is different.

[00:35:43] We're in socialist countries, we're in communist countries, we're in democracies. We're in countries, 80 percent of the countries we're in don't even have a multiple listening service or Realtors. And everybody keeps saying we're different. [00:36:00] And in every country we went to, we became incredibly successful.

[00:36:04] And the thing that's fascinating about the success was I couldn't figure out why, with all the differences. And it finally came down to human beings have some common, commonalities if you will, That's what human beings want. We want to raise our children to our moral standards and our religious beliefs, not somebody else's.

[00:36:27] We want to make more money so that we can provide elder care or childcare or provide for our children. We want to do our business. Our way. I want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, where I want to do it, how I want to do it, and with who I want to do it. So it had nothing to do with the commission split working in 110 countries.

[00:36:49] It had everything to do with the leadership concept of, I have one job in this real estate office. I'm not here to motivate you to become more [00:37:00] successful. I can put a gun to your head and say, stand up. If you don't stand up, you're an idiot. Minute the police take me away, you never think about me again.

[00:37:08] My job as a leader, for any person that's listening to this podcast, your job is to create an environment where the people that work for you can achieve the level of success they want. We had a hundred percent Club 73 make 100, 000 a year, which is unreal figure at that time. And I couldn't figure out, why in the world didn't everybody want to work that hard?

[00:37:36] It took me about 10 years to figure it out and there are people who are very happy at age 60 are not going to work 18 hour days anymore. They've got good clients, they got referrals, and they want to have time to golf and be with the grandkids and they're happy making 60, 000 a year. And so it finally dawned on me this Not [00:38:00] my responsibility to say everybody should make a hundred or two hundred thousand a year.

[00:38:04] I'm supposed to create an environment where they can achieve the level of success they want. 

[00:38:12] Hala Taha: I love that you called that out. I literally had in quotes to say next, our job as a leader isn't about getting everything we can from somebody. It's about creating an environment in which people can achieve as much as they want.

[00:38:24] That is so powerful. So aside from payment structure. So I know that you. really changed the game in terms of the amount of commission that people make, where if they sell more, they make more. Aside from the payment structure, how are you creating an environment in which people can achieve as much as they want?

[00:38:42] Dave Liniger: If you read the book, I talk about leadership, and the number one, most important factor of a leader is a leader sells hope. I don't care if it's Martin Luther King, he's talking to Brown. And white people of [00:39:00] our children can do better. They can be equal. We can live in the same neighborhoods. We can have the same advantages.

[00:39:06] And he was nonviolent and he tried to preach. There's hope in the future for us. If you go back to Reagan, Reagan said, make America great. The only thing Trump did was say, make America great again. Hillary said, stronger with Hillary. Nobody gave a damn. Obama had one word, hope, and he won. And so great leaders have to be optimistic, but they have to have a dream.

[00:39:38] And they have to sell to their followers that, We together will have a better life together. And so as an entrepreneur, I had dozens of people who tried to hire my officers away from me in the seventies and eighties and nineties, offering them twice what they could make. [00:40:00] And they never left, because we had our dream together, and we had this optimism that we would change the world, and we did.

[00:40:09] 

[00:40:09] 

[00:40:13] 

[00:40:18] Hala Taha: So I know one of your mentors was Dave Stone, and you said that his mentorship was really instrumental in your early success. What were some of the key lessons and strategies that you learned from Dave that you then carried on? Throughout your career. 

[00:40:34] Dave Liniger: I had been licensed for six months. I had no intention of being a real estate agent I was buying investment properties But I got a license to maybe save the Commission and I looked around these old people in my office I was still in the military and they were old I mean some of them 40 50 60 years old and they make a deal once every three or four months And I thought [00:41:00] man I could do this and six months into it Crew cut haircut, 130 pounds, Volkswagen with a cracked windshield and no air conditioning in Phoenix in the summer and not one deal.

[00:41:15] I quit. I got my little cardboard box. My manager stood there and said, I didn't think you would ever make it. And I said, well, why the hell did you hire me? And he says, we're in the roasting business. Everybody's got a mother, a brother, a next door neighbor, and a best friend. You know, you never know when you can get a deal.

[00:41:33] I'd paid to go to Dave Stone's seminar, 25. This is 19, I don't know, 67, 68, whatever it was, Mountain Shadows Country Club in Scottsdale. I went, I sat in the front row, even though I'd quit, and he was mesmerizing. He was so smooth. He was so cool. He had a gift of gab for everything, and he [00:42:00] was talking about how to handle objections, how to do this, how to do that.

[00:42:03] I'm sitting there, Every break, I jumped up and grabbed his hand like an idiot, and I said, Oh, oh my God, Mr. Stone. That's fascinating. Man, if I had your, your gift, I could be a success. He says, How long have you been trying? And I said, Six months. And he says, How many deals have you got? And I said, None. And he says, If I were you, I'd quit.

[00:42:26] And I said, I did. But I'm going back. I'm going back to work today. I can do this. Strange world. I'm going home that night, my stupid Volkswagen with a cracked windshield, no air conditioning. Latino girl, probably about 20 or 21, is talking to her father, half English, half Spanish. I stopped in to get a gallon of milk for the kids.

[00:42:52] And I said, excuse me, are you talking about real estate? And she said, my father's moving to Albuquerque and we need to sell his [00:43:00] house. But we don't know how to do that. And I looked at him and I said, senor, do you know how much a real estate commission is? And he said, no little comprende or something. I don't know what he said.

[00:43:10] I said, do you know what title insurance is? No, no, no, I said, he needs me. I'm a realtor. I followed him home, listed the house on, this is terrible. 10, 500. That house today would be 200 and some thousand dollars, two full price offers that night. The next morning, I'm laying in bed with my wife, slapped her on her bottom and say, wake up.

[00:43:36] And she's like, what? You're sleeping with one hell of a fine realtor, man. A hundred percent of my listings have sold for full price in less than two hours. That day I took the girl and her fiance and sold them a house. That afternoon, I sold their best friend's house, and the next morning, I sold their friend's house.

[00:43:59] So in [00:44:00] basically 48 hours, I hadn't sold a single Anglo person a house. The girls hugged me and kissed me and said, Oh my God, my parents don't even own a house and we now own a house. And the guys slapped me on the back and shook hands and said, Hey amigo, this is fabulous. My parents don't own a house. It was a set.

[00:44:24] I did 365 transactions part time, still in the military in the next 365 days. The only difference, Was those four customers gave me the confidence to be able to look at the next customer and say, well, I made three deals this week, the same Volkswagen with a crack windshield, the same 135 pound. Combat soldier and overnight stone changed my life.

[00:44:55] He gave me the confidence. I followed him. He helped me [00:45:00] design remix. When I designed it, he gave me a 300 page manual on why it would never work. And a 20 page attachment that said, but if you do this and this and this, you will. And I was very fortunate, I had this unbelievable, remarkable man that changed my life.

[00:45:18] Hala Taha: And how did you get him to be your mentor, if you were struggling, like what were the ways that you actually got him to be your mentor? 

[00:45:25] Dave Liniger: I was so aggressive. I was just a groupie, he had to look at me and think, you idiot, but I pushed it, I pushed it, I pushed it, and ended up becoming one of the best friends of my life.

[00:45:42] Hala Taha: I have a similar story. I, when I was first starting out in podcasting, I went after literally the top podcaster in my field, Jordan Harbinger, and I would just send him stuff, information that I had, showed him that I was working hard, working hard, and finally he started helping me. So that's how you have to do it.

[00:45:58] You have to show that [00:46:00] you're really, really eager and you really, really want the help and you're willing to work hard for it. 

[00:46:05] Dave Liniger: Lots of people will ask me to mentor them and as you get older, you're very young, but as you get older, you start measuring your hours and saying what's important to me and what's important to me is giving a hand down to help the next person get up the mountain and so many people have been kind to me in my life and so, you know, that becomes part of what do you want to do as a mentor?

[00:46:32] The problem with being a mentor is 9 people. and take notes and smile, but they won't execute. They'll ask you for advice and you tell them the advice and they say, Oh, that's wonderful. And they won't execute the next day. And so you get to the point where you don't want to mentor people because you're wasting my time.

[00:46:55] Hala Taha: I prefer for people to intern for me now if they want my [00:47:00] mentorship because I feel like that's the way that I can teach them and it's mutually valuable and then they can move on if they want to move on or get hired if they want to get hired. My preference now. Let's move on to strategy, hiring, and firing.

[00:47:12] I know we don't have that much time left but I definitely want to understand what is your strategy around hiring and firing? 

[00:47:19] Dave Liniger: Firing is tough. I used to brag. For 38 years, not one individual had left RE MAX as one of my officers on their own. I didn't fire anybody. I took a seminar, can't remember where, And it was the first time you think that you ought to fire somebody is the day you should fire them.

[00:47:47] And yet, if you're a realtor or you're a salesperson or an entrepreneur, you want to be liked. And so you tolerate nonsense from idiots. And the day you finally have the [00:48:00] guts to fire somebody, the next morning you get up and say, Why the hell didn't I do that ten years ago? So, the problem with me was my officers traveled with me constantly.

[00:48:13] We did 200 and some speaking days a year, and officers went with me, we had breakfast together, lunch together, and dinner, and flights together, and cocktails, and we went to each other's marriages, and divorces, and cancer with their parents, and our funerals, and whatever. It's hard when you're close friends with everybody.

[00:48:35] So, I took this course, and I came home to Gail, and I said, we got four of these guys. That I've worked with for years, and they don't have fire in the belly anymore. They feel entitled. They've been here 25 years. I don't have to work that hard. And I said, you and I still work this hard. I've got to solve this problem.

[00:48:59] She and [00:49:00] I brainstormed, and role played, and I called each one in individually, and I said, hi. It's time for a serious conversation. I've talked to you for two years about I don't think you've got the fire in the belly and I don't think you care about the network like we do and so I've made a decision and that decision is I can fire you and give you a two week severance package or you can resign and I'll give you a one year severance package.

[00:49:31] Which do you want? And that starts the argument of no, no, no, no. Oh, you don't understand me. I really work hard. I said, nope, I'm sorry. My decision has been made. I'm done. This is your decision. Two weeks severance and I fire you or you resign and I'll give you. All four of them took it. The next day was a company wide meeting for the [00:50:00] employees at headquarters.

[00:50:01] 400 people. We do the meeting, we put out the awards, and talk about the updates. And at the end, I always said, Are there any questions for me? So, I'm fairly conservative. I have a very liberal left wing Democrat in the editorial staff. And he stood up and he says, Dave, what the hell did he have on you that you didn't fire him 10 years ago?

[00:50:28] And now I'm in front of 400 people. And I said, I didn't have the personal courage to be the leader that you deserved. And that I finally realized when I don't fire somebody that's incompetent, I heard three groups of people. I heard the individual because they're pigeonholed. I'm never going to promote them or give them another pay raise.

[00:50:51] I heard the people that work for them because they know that person's an idiot. And I heard myself and my shareholders because I didn't have [00:51:00] the personal courage to face up to a friendship challenge of we were no longer a good fit together. And the room applauded. I was vulnerable. I said it was my mistake.

[00:51:12] It's my fault. And they accepted it. So, when you talk about leadership concepts, firing is the most important thing you can do. If you have somebody that's abusing, nasty, just unkind to their employees, You're tolerating that. The fact that you don't make a decision is you made the decision. If you can't make the decision firearm, you've made the decision, I'll put up with her crap.

[00:51:43] Hala Taha: It's so true. 

[00:51:44] Dave Liniger: It's a tough deal. That's why we get paid the big paycheck, right? And so when you talk about leadership, that's the hardest thing. Hiring, you should hire very, very slow [00:52:00] and fire very, very fast. 

[00:52:02] Hala Taha: Yeah, with hiring, I love something that you mentioned in the book about hiring salespeople that I just wanted to touch on before we go.

[00:52:09] You said to hire both hunters and farmers, which I love. So tell us about that. 

[00:52:15] Dave Liniger: In the sales field, there are hunters and farmers. The hunters live for the kill. They want to go out, kill something, put it over their shoulder, bring it back to teepee, and put it on the ground and say, hey, let's have some food.

[00:52:29] And they want to go out and hunt again. Farmers, they are slow, methodical, they want to build relationships, they want a lifetime experience with this individual. You need both sales people. You need farmers that will have the patience to build relationships over periods and periods of years. But you still gotta have the hunters that can go out and score the kill.

[00:52:57] Hala Taha: Dave, this was such an awesome conversation. I feel like we [00:53:00] learned so much about your own personal entrepreneurship journey and as well as your leadership principles and everything like that. I always end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests, and this can be outside of everything that we talked about today.

[00:53:13] Just answer it from your heart. The first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profiteers can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? 

[00:53:23] Dave Liniger: I think the most actionable thing is You have to be a lifelong learner. One of the biggest deficiencies I've seen in many of the officers that I've hired is they got their college degree, they know it all, they don't buy a book.

[00:53:37] If they buy a book, it's fiction. And they don't continue to study and find out, how do I build my business? How do I build my, my life? That's the most important aspect of the most successful people I've mentored. They won't learn from everybody, everything they can, and they will execute. 

[00:53:58] Hala Taha: And I know you're a huge, [00:54:00] huge reader, so what recommendations do you have in terms of books that us entrepreneurs read?

[00:54:05] Dave Liniger: The old classic is Think and Grow Rich. 

[00:54:08] Hala Taha: Yeah, I love it. 

[00:54:09] Dave Liniger: By Napoleon Hill. It is tried. It's tired. Half the book is worthless. Uh, the first half was pretty darn good. I think best book out there is Success Principles, Jack Canfield, and it is a fabulous book. It's big. It's six, 700 pages, but it's three to four page chapters that you can pick and choose what you want to learn from.

[00:54:38] It's very motivational. The other thing is The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. And it is little steps done repeatedly over years gives you amazing results. And the final one would be Kaizen and that's the Japanese concept [00:55:00] of 1 percent improvement of a hundred things. every day and not 100 percent improvement once a year.

[00:55:07] Hala Taha: I'm going to make it my mission to read all four of those books by the end of the year, thanks to you. And what would you say, this is the last and final question, what is your secret to profiting in life? 

[00:55:20] Dave Liniger: Profiting in life? Is what is your goal? And so if your goal was to reach 65 and retire and go fishing, then you've been successful.

[00:55:34] I have an interesting company right now. It's called Porta Supps. It's a sub sandwich company. Highest. Best quality sub sandwich in the world. And it's based really in Nevada with a couple of adjoining states. And, uh, I bought it from the guy that retired, but I'm developing it very rapidly. And regional developer model, we've got 20 some [00:56:00] regions sold, we're gonna expand, we'll be worldwide in no time at all.

[00:56:04] The thing that was fascinating to me about it was in the real estate business, I change, I should say Gail and I change, The world, because we hired women and in 73, that was not popular. Uh, part time housewife was like, well, they're not serious about the business. They're taking jobs away from a white man.

[00:56:25] All of a sudden it was an old white man's white haired. We changed a lot of lives, but we changed it with women. Eventually, we changed it multicultural as we became big and successful. Port a Subs is amazing. It's much less expensive to start a sub sandwich shop than it is to start a McDonald's for 10 million.

[00:56:50] And it is a chance for multiculturals to get their foot into private ownership of an enterprise. And [00:57:00] so 65 percent of our franchisees are multicultural, in most cases, the first person in the family to own a business. And it's been around 50 years and so we have multicultural people whose children are the first children in their family to go to college and are now taking over the business.

[00:57:23] And so to me, entrepreneurship is about getting a chance. To get your foot in the door. And so a lot of times the first generation are immigrants. They may be a teacher or a doctor in a foreign country, but they can't do that here. And so they become a janitor or whatever, carpenter. Second generation usually is one of the trades.

[00:57:47] And the third generation are small business owners that are hiring the trades. It is a wonderful evolution of people having a chance to build family wealth. 

[00:57:58] Hala Taha: Well, Dave, thank you so [00:58:00] much. I feel like you gave so much information, your wealth of knowledge. I'm so happy that you're giving back and building this legacy.

[00:58:07] Your book was so wonderful. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? 

[00:58:11] Dave Liniger: DaveLenninger. com. You can follow me along there. There's all kinds of things like God knows what, Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, et cetera. It's a pleasure to be able to give back and maybe help the next person one more step up.

[00:58:27] Hala Taha: Thank you so much, Dave. 

[00:58:29] Dave Liniger: You're a delight. Thank you so much. 

[00:58:35] Hala Taha: Yeah, bam, I really am blessed to have this job. I love my job because it's so amazing to speak with true business legends like Dave Linegar. I got to hear the story behind a company like REMAX, how it got its start, how it scaled, and how it's turned itself into an iconic brand. Dave has lived and breathed being an entrepreneur for decades now, and has experienced the highs and the lows that [00:59:00] go with that.

[00:59:01] I loved hearing the question he likes to ask other entrepreneurs when he's considering to invest in their company. Why are you starting this business? It's a simple question, but it's an answer that can tell you everything you need to know about somebody's motivations. their drive, and whether they have a chance at succeeding.

[00:59:18] Like Simon Sinek always says, what's your why? Dave also knows a few things about when and when not to take feedback as a leader. Be willing to accept criticism, but also be strong enough to believe in yourself and discard feedback that's not helpful. Dave also learned the hard way why sometimes you have to fire a low performing employee.

[00:59:39] If you don't, you're hurting three groups of people. That employee who you will never promote, the people who work with them and who know that that person can't do their job and so it brings them down, and finally, yourself and your company because their continued presence at your company shows you that you don't have the courage to make a tough decision.

[00:59:59] And [01:00:00] that will definitely impact your confidence. After all, leadership, as Dave put it, is really the impact that you have on others. It's not about getting everything that you want. It's about creating an environment in which others can achieve what they want. Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.

[01:00:18] If you want to have an impact on others by sharing some of these leadership lessons that you learned today on the podcast, then please share this episode with somebody who could use it. Spread this podcast by word of mouth. And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then take a couple of minutes and drop us a review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[01:00:39] Guys, I'm not lying when I say that I check my reviews daily. every day. This is a platform that does not have two way communication. It's not like social media where you guys can DM me or comment. The only way that I know that you guys are really listening and appreciating the show is by writing me a review.

[01:00:56] I check them out all the time. I want to know the good. I want to know the bad. [01:01:00] Tell me what you think about the show. And if you prefer to watch your podcast as videos, you can find me on YouTube. Just look up the show, Young and Profiting. You'll find all of our episodes on there. If you want to find me on Instagram, it's Yap with Hala.

[01:01:13] Y A P with Hala. Or LinkedIn, search my name, it's Hala Taha. And I, of course, want to take a minute to shout out my amazing production team. Thank you guys so much for all your hard work, all your dedication. You make the show what it is. This is your host, Hala Taha, a. k. a. the Podcast Princess, signing off.