Dr. Chris Palmer: [00:00:00] In any given year, about one billion people on the planet will be diagnosed with a mental disorder. Western countries like the United States, the rates are higher and have been higher for decades.

VO: Dr. Chris Palmer, a leading expert in metabolic psychiatry. He helps uncover the powerful connection between metabolism, brain health, and overall wellness.

Dr. Chris Palmer: 93% of Americans right now have at least one biomarker of poor metabolic health. A large study of millions of people looked at, of those who have obesity, are they at increased risk for developing a subsequent mental illness? And the answer was overwhelmingly yes.

Hala Taha: Something that was really surprising when I was reading your book is that when you have mental illness, it can actually shave off years of your life.

Dr. Chris Palmer: On average, men are losing 10 years of life, women are losing seven years of life. What are they dying of? It's heart attacks and strokes.

Hala Taha: What would you say to the listener right now who's [00:01:00] on antidepressants?

Dr. Chris Palmer: If you're taking an antidepressant and it has changed your life for the better, by all means please keep taking it.

However, 90% of people taking antidepressants, that's not the case. So if you're having any of the side effects or it didn't really fully work for your symptoms, I would strongly encourage you, first and foremost, just-

Hala Taha: Hey, App Fam. What if everything you've been told about mental health is only half the story?

Today, we're looking at mental health in a totally new lens. I'm sitting down with Dr. Chris Palmer, Harvard psychiatrist, researcher, and author of Brain Energy. His work is reshaping how we understand mental health, metabolism, mitochondria, and even the role a ketogenic diet may play in supporting brain health.

And we'll explore all of this more deeply in the conversation. But before we dive in, if this is your kind of podcast and you haven't followed us yet, this is your friendly reminder to follow Young and Profiting podcast on your favorite platform and subscribe to our YouTube channel. It [00:02:00] takes two seconds, and it keeps you plugged into conversations that help you level up in every aspect of life.

Now, Chris, welcome to Young and Profiting podcast.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Thank you, Hala, for having me.

Hala Taha: I'm excited for this conversation. We talk a lot about mental health on the podcast, but you're really bringing a new perspective to the table. And you've basically spent your whole career trying to answer this one question, which is, how does mental illness happen?

Like, what is the cause of mental illness? And after all your research and all your time studying that, what did you come up with?

Dr. Chris Palmer: So, you know, what's long been known is that there are It kind of myriad different causes of mental illness, and they often fall into three different buckets: biological, psychological, and social.

And so we have this theory, the biopsychosocial theory of mental illness, that there are lots of different things that can happen, and those include things like neurotransmitters, genetics, hormones, inflammation, sleep, drugs and [00:03:00] alcohol, but also psychological and social things like trauma, stress, adverse childhood experiences, those types of things.

And, um, but it... precisely how they all fit together has perplexed people for millennia. And what I believe, based on the research I've done, is that we can actually begin to connect all of those things through what we call metabolism and that actually metabolic dysfunction, um, or dysregulation can actually help us understand what causes mental illness.

So it doesn't replace the biopsychosocial, it integrates the biopsychosocial. It puts it together once and for all.

Hala Taha: And I know that, like, traditional psychiatry really focuses, especially when it comes to, like, depression, on this, like, chemical imbalance theory, a lack of serotonin. What's the difference between...

[00:04:00] Or, or do you feel like that's still accurate? 'Cause you were saying, like, it, y- you know, your theory kinda integrates with everything. Do you feel like that's accurate at all or do you feel like metabolism is, is really the key to all of that?

Dr. Chris Palmer: I do think metabolism's key. So for people who don't know, the serotonin, like, hypothesis of depression largely is derived from the observation that medications like Prozac or Zoloft or Paxil, which all kind of inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, um, so they, in other words, they increase the availability of serotonin in a synapse, um, that those can work for depression.

And there's no doubt they really can work, and as a psychiatrist for over 30 years, I have seen them work time and again in different patients. And so the theory, it w- that was really just a serendipitous observation, that these medications seem to help depression. [00:05:00] And so the assumption was, well, patients with depression must not have enough serotonin, that it's really as simple as that.

And it-- but in fact, we have decades of neuroscience research looking at serotonin levels in depressed people's brains- And it turns out they don't have lower levels of serotonin in their brains. Uh, so we actually have really robust, strong evidence that people with depression do not, in fact, have a serotonin imbalance.

Now, so that still begs the question though, then why would these medicines work? And I actually believe that, that understanding the science of metabolism, and more specifically mitochondria, can actually help us understand why they would work. So serotonin is actually really important to brain metabolism, and more specifically to mitochondrial function.

And when you understand that, you can understand that it's not [00:06:00] necessarily an imbalance of serotonin, and yet boosting serotonin for some people can be a really powerful treatment.

Hala Taha: Now, I, I definitely wanna get into, like, what is metabolism, what is the role of the mitochondria. But first, like something that you said really piqued my interest because you said that basically this, this medicine, these antidepressants, they were used for other disease, and it was just like a side effect that they noticed that people were getting happier, and then they just kind of leaned into that.

What is the problem with doing that in medicine? 'Cause there's other instances of that. There's certain medicine where they realize it makes your eyelashes grow, and now everybody uses it for their eyelashes. And there's so many instances of, like, side effects turning into something that people use, uh, which I just think is, like, a really strange way to go about prescribing medication.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Unfortunately, that's actually more of the rule than the exception -

Hala Taha: Yeah ...

Dr. Chris Palmer: in the field of medicine. You know, and this goes back to, like, the 1800s [00:07:00] and before. It, like, it, it goes back to, you know, really ancient medicine. You know, ancient healers Would find herbs that had medicinal properties, and they would grind these herbs or process them or dry them or do other things and give patients with certain symptoms or conditions these herbs.

And sometimes these herbs actually really did work, um, and they really can treat things like heart failure. Um, the people had no clue how or why they worked. They just knew, oh, here's a plant. If we grind it up in a certain way and give it to people with these different conditions, it can be helpful. I mean, ancient Chinese medicine is all based on that.

It's based on different things like even acupuncture. There are theories about why, if we place the needles in these locations, do we see symptom reduction, whereas we place the needles in other [00:08:00] locations, it doesn't seem to work as well. So that's really the way most of medicine actually has developed, is serendipitous observations that if we do-- if we give this medicine or if we give this plant or this substance to people It can be helpful.

It can reduce symptoms. Even though we had no clue how or why it worked, like we were using opioids like heroin and other opiates for pain relief for, again, centuries without really understanding how or why it works. So same too in the mental health field, as you mentioned. Like the first antidepressant was actually a tuberculosis treatment, and the people in the tuberculosis wards were giving these people this treatment, but noticing that some of them had had preexisting depression, and all of a sudden they were [00:09:00] happier.

And they're like, "Wow, I wonder if this would help those patients over on that psych ward, and maybe it would help them too." And sure enough, they did. They didn't know how or why they worked. The assumption wasn't that people with depression also had tuberculosis. The, the assumption was that this tuberculosis medicine is somehow doing something.

Like even some of the hair loss medications that men take, that was serendipitous. They were blood pressure medicines initially, and then, oh, wow, men are growing hair. Let's, let's use it as a hair loss, um, kind of method instead.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Unfortunately, it is unsettling because you would think that in 2026 we have a lot more science and rigor, but unfortunately...

And we're getting there. We're definitely getting there, and I don't wanna discount all of the progress that we've had in neuroscience and biological sciences and healthcare, and we are getting there to the point where if we understand, [00:10:00] you know, certain receptors play a role in a disease, we can design medications to target those receptors and get the effects we want.

You know, people are modulating the immune system in complex ways to help cure cancer sometimes. So medical progress is phenomenal, but still the bulk of medicine is based on these serendipitous findings.

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And, uh, more and more, you know, mental health seems to be a problem, and es- especially with the youth, right? Like, we always see these stats of, you know, whether it's 30% of adults have depression or, or whatever it is. There's all these stats always about how bad mental health is. Can you set the stage in terms of how big of a problem this is?

And then also, like, is this getting worse, or are we just diagnosing it now because it's something that we actually look at?

Dr. Chris Palmer: Yeah, both really important questions. The latest [00:14:00] broad-scale epidemiological data that we have across the world suggests that in any given year, about one billion people on the planet will be diagnosed with a mental disorder.

That represents about 13% of the world's population. In Western countries like the United States, the rates are higher and have been higher for decades, and it's about 20% of people in any given year will be diagnosed with a mental disorder. The lifetime statistics are much higher. So in the United States and other Western countries, about one in two people, 50% of all people, will meet criteria for a mental illness at some point or another during their life.

Now, sometimes the cause of these mental health conditions is really obvious. It's You know, a man who's married for 25 [00:15:00] years gets a divorce, loses custody of his children, loses, like, all of his livelihood and everything, um, it's obvious why he would develop major depression, um, and it would definitely last probably more than two weeks.

And so he would end up meeting criteria for a mental illness, major depression. And he might get prescribed medications. He might be going to his primary care doc, and that person would prescribe him an antidepressant or sleeping medicine or other things. So sometimes the cause of the mental illness is really clear and apparent and obvious.

It's not some complex problem or issue to understand. Whereas other people have very complicated brain conditions, whether they're neurodevelopmental like autism or ADHD, whether it's bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or the person who gets severe [00:16:00] crippling depression for no reason, for no reason at all.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: And everything else under the sun. So it in... You know, mental disorders include things like alcoholism, anorexia nervosa, bu- you know, bulimia. Um, includes things like dementia, Alzheimer's disease, and others. So there's a wi- broad, broad range of mental disorders, and the overwhelming preponderance of evidence strongly suggests the rates are increasing across the board, across a wide range of diagnoses.

Now, there is debate and disagreement about that. Some will argue, as you suggested, that we're just better at recognizing it. All these celebrities are coming out, talking about their struggle with mental illness, and that's empowering and encouraging people to talk about it. No doubt that that is all that's true, and that does affect the statistics somewhat, but that is not at all the [00:17:00] entire explanation.

I mean, rates of autism in the last 25 years have more than actually now quintupled. I used to have to say quadrupled, but now it's quintupled. And yes, we're better at diagnosing it and recognizing it, but the rates are also legitimately increasing.

Hala Taha: Hmm. Talk to us about the correlation between physical health, like people becoming more obese and having diabetes, with, um, an increase in mental health diagnosis.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Yeah, no, it's a great question, and very much aligned with a lot of my research. So e- everybody knows, in case you've been living under a rock, obesity and diabetes are skyrocketing, skyrocketing in prevalence. Um, 70% of United States adults are now overweight or obese. That is a black and white issue. It's not that we recha- we changed our definitions of obesity.

It's not that [00:18:00] people are screening more for obesity, so we're recognizing it more. It's obvious. You can just look at photos from people in the 1950s on the street and photos from people on the street today, and you will see it with your own eyes. And what I would argue is that is related to mental health too, that at the same time that people are developing these metabolic disorders, so too will the rates of mental disorders increase or even skyrocket.

And we have very strong data to support this. Um, uh, most of that data is correlational Meaning, so for example, a large study of millions of people looked at of those who have obesity, are they at increased risk for developing a subsequent mental illness? And the answer was overwhelmingly yes, [00:19:00] anywhere from 50% more likely to 350% increased risk.

And what were the diagnoses? Like, a lot of people might think, well, maybe depression because of fat-shaming. Sure, yes, depression, fat-shaming might play a role, but also anxiety disorders, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, um, eating disorders, somatoform disorders, personality disorders were at dramatically increased risk, and that's after the person already had obesity.

So what does that mean? It means that if a child is developing obesity, that child is at increased risk for having a mental illness in his or her future.

Hala Taha: Wow. It just makes me think because, like, there's so much, like, um, you know, body positivity around being overweight, and this gives it another lens that, [00:20:00] like, there's more than just a vanity factor.

It is actually impacting and can impact your mental health, and I think that's just something really interesting to realize, that it's not just vanity, it's not just looking good in clothes. It actually can impact your mental health, being overweight.

Dr. Chris Palmer: I, I think that's a really important point. And by no means am I here to fat-shame anyone.

Of

Hala Taha: course.

Dr. Chris Palmer: By no means am I here to make anybody feel bad about themselves or have lower self-esteem, but I think it is negligent for us to just assume that obesity is okay, and obesity is just, you know, it's just a way of being. It's a healthy choice. It's just another choice. It's another option. No, it is not.

It is a serious, severe health condition that affects numerous parts of your body and your brain, and we should take that seriously, and we should do everything we can to try to prevent and address [00:21:00] obesity. To... Why? Not, not because I'm hyper about discipline and shaming people, but because I'm trying to improve people's lives, and I, I don't want them to suffer.

Like, when people have... When people have a chronic mental illness- For some of them, it can be a living hell. It really can, and it's much more complicated than just fat-shaming and societal norms. Yes, they play a role, but it's so much more than that. And, um, and if we're really going to improve human health and improve people's lives, we need to take this seriously.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm. Something that was really surprising when I was reading your book is that, uh, when you have mental illness, it can actually shave off years of your life You, you live a shorter life. Can you talk to us about that?

Dr. Chris Palmer: Yeah. We've, we've long known that people with severe chronic mental illnesses like chronic depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia, they lose anywhere from [00:22:00] seven to 30 years of life depending on what study you look at and what population.

But a very large study do- published in one of the leading medical journals, not even psychiatry journals, but medical journals, found that it's acro- almost across the board all of the mental illnesses listed in DSM. So all of them are associated with premature mortality. On average, men are losing 10 years of life, women are losing seven years of life.

What are they dying of? Everybody always immediately goes to suicide. Oh, those mentally ill people must be killing themselves, and that's why. Well, yes, it is true that people with mental illness are more likely to take their life, and if a 20-year-old commits suicide, that is going to skew the statistic down in terms of the average age of death, but that is not at all the primary cause of death.

The primary cause of death in the mentally ill is the same that it is in everyone else. It's heart attacks and [00:23:00] strokes, but it, it's occurring about 10 years earlier in life.

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Let's get into the science behind everything. I wanna start off with some definitions. Can you first help us understand what is metabolism?

Dr. Chris Palmer: So a lot of people have kind of a simplistic notion of metabolism. They think that, you know, the probably more common Or, uh, the more popular kind of definition is it's burning calories.

Because we think about it as it relates to our weight, and if you're burning a lot of calories, then you can have a, quote-unquote, "fast metabolism" and these [00:25:00] are the people who can eat anything they want, anything in sight, and they never gain any weight, and they must just be burning through it. And then there are people purportedly who have a slow metabolism, and they're not burning calories, and they can eat salads once a day-

and they're gaining five pounds a week because their metabolism is just so slow, no matter what they do, they can't lose weight. Um, so burning calories is absolutely part of metabolism and is a critical part of metabolism, but metabolism is so much more than that. So I would offer this kind of relatively over- overview definition, which is metabolism is the process of taking food, water, oxygen, and turning it into energy or building blocks that are used to make cells or make hormones or make neurotransmitters or create bone or [00:26:00] anything.

So essentially, when we eat food, it gets turned into one of two things. It either gets turned into our actual body, different cells or cell parts, or it gets turned into energy that gets burned, um, for fuel to keep us alive. Um, and then metabolism also involves kind of the waste management process of, of that because if, when, when managing the waste products becomes dysregulated, that can back up metabolism, so to speak, and you can have a metabolic problem because you can't get rid of certain things.

So, so it's that. It-- in, in, in a way, metabolism is fundamental to the definition of living organisms.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: So for example, viruses cannot do metabolism on their own, and so most biological authorities will say viruses are not living organisms because they have to ca- they have to [00:27:00] take over the metabolism machinery of a living organism.

And so in that way, metabolism is huge, massive, and it impacts essentially every aspect of human health.

Hala Taha: Hmm. And so I know that an important part of metabolism is the mitochondria, and we all learned in science class that it's like the powerhouse of the cell, right? Uh, but you call it the motherboard of the cell.

So talk to us about what the mitochondria does, how it's related to metabolism, and then how this all connects to mental health.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Like when I describe metabolism as this, like, overarching thing fundamental to living organisms, and it's ridiculously complicated. There are thousands of different hormones and molecules and everything circulating around that contribute to metabolism.

When people ask, "Well, what controls metabolism in the human body?" It's actually not what most people would say. Like, a lot of people might say the brain controls [00:28:00] metabolism, and it's like, well, yeah, the brain plays a role in it, but it, it does-- it doesn't actually control metabolism in every cell and organ and tissue and stuff.

And so the real answer, based on twenty twenty-six science, the real answer i- or the most likely answer is that Mitochondria are actually regulating and controlling metabolism throughout the body. And although they are in specific cells, like they-- So as you said, they are the powerhouse of the cell, and what does that mean?

For those of you who want the refle- refresher from your seventh grade biology class. What does powerhouse mean? It means that they are taking your food and oxygen and turning it into ATP, and, and that's kind of the energy currency of the cell. And so that's the powerhouse function. They're taking food and oxygen and converting it or transforming it into energy.

[00:29:00] And there's no doubt mitochondria do that, and that is critical to living organisms. It's critical to human health. But cutting-edge research over the last twenty-five years has actually completely shattered that simplistic definition. Mitochondria are so much more than that. They play countless roles in the function of cells.

And so related to mental health, some of the things that they do that are gonna start to connect the dots, connect these biopsychosocial dots for us, is that mitochondria actually play a role in neurotransmitter synthesis and release and regulation. And so if you, if you buy into the argument, oh, like, schizophrenia is due to an, an imbalance of dopamine or something, it still begs the question, well, what causes that imbalance in the first place?

And [00:30:00] increasingly, the science, the neuroscience is pointing at mitochondrial dysfunction or dysregulation as the cause of neurotransmitter imbalances. But mitochondria do so much more than that. They play a role in epigenetics, which is the expression of genes from the cell nucleus. They play a role in inflammation, turning it both on and off, and yet inflammation affects their function.

They play a role in how hungry we are and how much energy we have. But here's the thing: trauma, social adversity, stress impact their function as well They, drugs and alcohol do, and hormones do. And actually, mitochondria control the first step in the synthesis of some key hormones that are known to play a powerful role in mental illness, [00:31:00] and those include cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, and progesterone.

And so if somebody has dysregulation of those hormones, you have to implicate mitochondria in that dysregulation.

Hala Taha: Hmm. And so the title of your book that you put out a few years ago is called Brain Energy, and you kind of saw this as the red thread between, like, all mental illness, right? Like, that everything was kind of interconnected when everybody thought that they were all from, like, different causes, basically.

But you say all different types of mental illness from ADHD, to depression, to schizophrenia, to Alzheimer's, um, are all connected through this concept of brain energy. Uh, can you distill that for us?

Dr. Chris Palmer: We know that there are biological, psychological, and social factors that play a role, and I'm here to say yes, yes, yes, yes, we have decades of evidence to support that, but how are they connected?

How exactly are they connected precisely in biology and [00:32:00] physiology? Like, how can we understand it? Like, I think I deserve some credit for connecting some of these dots, but I certainly did not do a lot of this foundational research. So it's like hundreds, maybe thousands of brilliant scientists and biologists and others have been working on this for decades.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: And I think the hopeful thing is all of their work, once and for all, is finally starting to culminate in better understanding mitochondria, all of the different roles they play. And that, when you look at that science, it begins to help us connect the dots of the mental health field, this biopsychosocial thing, and how does it all impact?

The beautiful thing about it is that it, it kind of aligns with so many other things that we already know. People [00:33:00] with mental illness are more likely to get physical illnesses. People with physical illnesses are more likely to get mental illnesses. It helps us understand how and why those are connected, and then maybe most importantly, it gives us A wide range of new treatment strategies that we might not be using right now to help people improve their, not just mental health, but also their physical health simultaneously.

Hala Taha: Something that I thought was really fascinating is this fact that your brain actually uses a lot more energy than you'd think. Um, I know that my mom for, for the longest time, whenever I'd be studying, she's like, "Make sure you eat 'cause your brain takes up so much energy." And I'd be like, "What are you talking about?

Like, my brain's not burning that much energy." But I think in your book, you mention it, the brain makes up only 2% of body mass, but uses 20% of the body's energy. So talk to us about why that's so important to understand when we're talking about mitochondria and energy and, [00:34:00] and, you know, not having enough energy created through your mitochondria leading to having mental illness.

Or too much or too little, it goes both ways, actually.

Dr. Chris Palmer: It does go both ways. And so yeah, but no, it's a, it's a really important point that the brain is, the brain is Like an incredible, amazing, awe-inspiring organ. Like, it is really truly incredible. And for those who believe in God, you just, you know, it's G- only God could come up with something like the brain.

Um, it is incredible. But it is this incredible machine that does so many things for human life, human existence, um, and it is like a supercomputer, and as such, it does require a lot of energy to function. And tho- [00:35:00] that level of energy production, um, and regulation of that energy really is very similar to, like, a complicated supercomputer.

So for those who are familiar with complicated supercomputers, it's actually the flow of energy that in part is making that supercomputer run, and you can burn, fry circuits if you put too much energy through them, and if you're not putting enough energy through them, then it's not gonna work. Well, guess what?

Same thing happens in the brain. If there's too much or too little energy flowing in the right place at the right time, you're going to get dysfunction in those brain circuits. And at its core, that is one relatively straightforward, easy way to understand kind of this theory, is that energy dysregulation or metabolic dysregulation can help us understand dysregulation [00:36:00] in the functions of the brain, the myriad functions of the brain, and when those functions become dysfunctional or don't operate properly, essentially that's what we call mental illness.

Sometimes we call it a neurological illness when it's extreme and we can measure it, like a seizure or something like that. But in the mental health category, there aren't necessarily objective measures that we've developed today in twenty twenty-six, and so we rely on symptoms and patient reports. But when a patient says, "I'm hearing something that's not there," um, we can assume that some brain networks are dysfunctional, and brain energy metabolism can help us understand how and why Those brain circuits can become dysfunctional.

Hala Taha: So let's talk about, like, r- we were just saying how energy, you can have either too much energy, too little energy, uh, happening with our [00:37:00] mitochondria and our brain, which results into different mental illnesses. So talk to us about when there's too much energy happening and w- uh, what happens in terms of, like, what kind of me- mental illness, and then what are the environmental factors that play along with, with having too much energy going through your mitochondria?

Dr. Chris Palmer: So it really, I mean, it, it starts to get complicated fast. I just wanna say that.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Dr. Chris Palmer: For any of the, for any of the neuroscientists listening, I fully understand this is really complicated, but I'm gonna speak to a lay audience and try to make it sound simple. It's not simple, but we-

Hala Taha: And I'm sure my questions aren't that great 'cause I'm not a neuroscientist, so I'm, like, trying my best.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Your questions are phenomenal, and these, and they're really important questions. So but the, the way to simplify it is too much energy sometimes can be represented by what's called hyperexcitability or overactivity of a network And so a couple of clear examples of that. So somebody who has an [00:38:00] anxiety disorder, what's the definition of anxiety disorder?

Somebody who gets anxious for no good reason. They can be sitting in their La-Z-Boy recliner watching a really nice show, not thinking about anything anxiety provoking, and then out of the blue have a panic attack. And how do we think about that? The way we th- the way I think about that is that their, their anxiety circuits in their brain became hyper excitable, so they started firing when they shouldn't, and that is going to be associated with more energy flowing through those circuits and but it results in hyperactivity of those brain circuits.

Same thing can happen with OCD, but it can also happen with psychosis and with all sorts of other mental illnesses. One of the clearest examples of too much energy in the brain is for something called hypomania or mania, which is kind of one of the [00:39:00] parts of bipolar disorder where people can get really hyper, agitated, excited.

Sometimes they feel euphoric, other times they just feel really irritable and nasty, but they are revved up. It's kind of the opposite of depression. They can feel great. They're going a mile a minute. They're talking a mile a minute. They might not even be sleeping because this energy metabolism is just, like, flowing through their brain.

And we actually have a lot of evidence that their brains are overactive and energy metabolism is overactive.

Hala Taha: That's so interesting. And so a lot of people think this is mostly genetic, right? When people have these types of disorders, people really think it's genetic. Are there environmental factors that cause the increase of energy and, and, like, your metabolism being too, too crazy that are leading to these things?

Dr. Chris Palmer: 100%. So again, so i- and, and this I'll [00:40:00] bring back to just some common sense, obvious observations. Obesity is, in fact, a metabolic disorder.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Do genetics contribute to obesity? Yes, in some cases they do. But the primary cause of obesity is not genetics, because 100 years ago, very few people had obesity.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: And we pretty much have the same genes that we had 100 years ago. And so there's something in our environment that is driving obesity, and it's not just gluttony and poor willpower and, oh, everybody just can't resist delicious food. Believe it or not, they had delicious food 100 years ago and people, they, people didn't get obese.

They had chocolate chip cookies. They had pumpkin pie and apple pie. They had delicious foods 100 years ago, but people were not becoming obese. And so what is it? And [00:41:00] I would argue that it is dysregulation of metabolism, that there are things in ultra-processed foods, some of the chemicals and other things in ultra-processed foods, that probably are very harmful to our metabolism.

But there are things like environmental toxins, uh, microplastics and other things accumulating in the human body that are probably harmful to our metabolism. But there are psychological and social things. So one of the clearest examples, to keep it focused on both mental and metabolic, is this concept of adverse childhood experiences or ACEs.

We've long known... So this is, these are children who have parents with mental illness, parents in prison, parents who are criminals, parents who are divorced, abuse, sexual abuse, neglect, poverty, loneliness, trauma, [00:42:00] all of these things. All of these things are adverse childhood experiences And what we know is that people who have a lot of adverse childhood experiences, the more you have, the more likely you are to have a mental illness.

Exactly what mental illness? Post-traumatic stress disorder, sure, but it's actually all of the mental illnesses. It's depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia. It's also eating disorders, and personality disorders, and alcoholism, and opioid addiction, and it's all of the mental disorders. But guess what? The very first studies of adverse childhood experiences, they actually weren't focused on mental health.

They were focused on obesity. They were obesity studies. The researchers were trying to understand why are some adults more likely to become obese than others, and they [00:43:00] studied these adverse childhood experiences and saw, saw strong correlations between the more adverse childhood experiences someone has, the more likely they are to be obese today, the more likely they are to have type 2 diabetes today, the more likely they are to have cardiovascular disease today, and the more likely they are to die early deaths And so we know that psychological and social factors impact mitochondrial function.

They also impact mental health, and they also impact metabolic health. So I'm here to say it's 2026, we have the science. We have more than enough science to connect these dots, so let's connect them and let's help improve human health.

Hala Taha: Yeah. And it, it's, the stuff that you're saying sounds scary, but it's actually really positive because [00:44:00] now that we know this, we can, we can do something about it.

So I definitely wanna talk about all the things that we can do to improve our mitochondrial health. Uh, but before we do that, I wanna talk about, uh, I just wanna get a few, like, basics down in terms of what happens to our brain when too little energy is, uh, being produced from our mitochondria. Like, what are the, what are the things that happen to our brain i- when that happens?

Dr. Chris Palmer: A simplistic way to put it, so for the neuroscientists, I apologize.

Hala Taha: I don't think we have many neuroscientists listening.

Dr. Chris Palmer: A simple way, all of the neuroscience eng- you know, entrepreneurs, uh, who are starting up their businesses- ... um, take this with a grain of salt, um, 'cause I know it's more complex than this.

But a simple way to think about it is really obvious and, and it's true. Um, so although I'm simplifying it, it's very much true. If your brain doesn't have enough energy, it's not going to work right. It's really obvious and simple [00:45:00] in that way. Do we have evidence that the brains of people with mental illness don't have enough energy?

We do. We have an abundance of data, decades of neuroscience research, decades of SPECT scans and PET scans and functional MRI and all sorts of things. We also do have evidence that people with epilepsy, they don't have enough energy in their brains. People with Alzheimer's disease, they don't have enough energy.

With Alzheimer's disease, the evidence is overwhelming and compelling, so much so that some people are now calling Alzheimer's disease Type 3 diabetes or diabetes of the brain, which means that their brains aren't able to use glucose effectively as an energy source. And so their brains become underactive.

They don't have enough energy. And if your brain doesn't have enough energy, slowly but surely it starts to atrophy or shrink. [00:46:00] And if left unchecked Brain cells can begin to die, and that is actually what the process of Alzheimer's disease is, is brain tissue shrinking and potentially eventually dying off, and then people slowly but surely lose not just their memory, but all sorts of other brain functions.

The, the ability to function in the world, the ability to walk, the ability to hold your bladder, the, like all of those things.

Hala Taha: And now alcohol and marijuana, that is slowing down energy production in your brain, correct? Like, there's certain environmental factors that we're doing that can increase the slowing down of energy being created in your brain.

Is that correct?

Dr. Chris Palmer: 100%. Both of them are known to be toxic to mitochondrial function and health. Both of them are known to interfere with brain energy [00:47:00] metabolism and ATP production, and both of them are known to, if you use too much of both of them, they bo- both of them, either of them, can increase risk for not just mental illnesses, a broad range of mental illnesses, depression, anxiety, um, uh, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, but also metabolic illnesses.

People who s- use a lot of drugs and alcohol are often dying, and what are they di- they're dying early deaths, and what do they usually die of? Heart attacks and strokes. They're not dying of anything that unusual. They're die-- Sometimes they're dying of liver cirrhosis with alcoholism or other things. So yeah, sometimes it's a little different than everyone else.

But the most common cause of death in people with substance use disorders is still cardiovascular disease, [00:48:00] hands down. It's just happening much earlier in life.

Hala Taha: Hmm. Uh, one of the biggest, like, proof points for your theory of brain energy and how it impacts mental health is delirium and the fact that delirium exists.

So talk to us about what delirium is and how it sort of proves your point in all of this.

Dr. Chris Palmer: So that was, you know, as I was As I was doing this research and doing this work, I honestly was always kind of checking myself and saying, "This can't possibly be true. It can't possibly be..." It, it's really complicated, but in my mind, it was becoming so much clearer and more simple.

And I was even kind of... I was very skeptical of my own kind of theory or hypothesis, and I was like, "It can't be this simple." And so I actually was looking for opportunities to like, well, if it's really true, what, what would help me prove this? Like, let me take a, a far-fetched example, maybe even [00:49:00] unrelated to what most people think of as mental illness, and see if this lines up.

Like, see if this hypothesis lines up. And delirium was one of the clear ones. And so what is delirium? Delirium can be ca- I- it's basically a- an acute change in mental status. And what does that mean? It means that somebody who is otherwise healthy or even unhealthy all of a sudden has an abrupt change in their mental health.

They start hallucinating. They get severely depressed. They get really agitated. They develop new onset OCD, like, overnight. Like, and what are the symptoms of delirium? It's essentially anything that you can think of that's related to mental health. Anything related to mental health can happen with delirium, even shockingly, things like eating disorders or substance use disorders or other things.

People who are delirious might start over-drinking alcohol because they're just so [00:50:00] out of it, they're so confused, they're so disoriented. And that's part of delirium as well is people often are, at least intermittently, really confused, and, and you, you ask them, "Where are you right now?" And they may not know.

You ask them, "What year is it?" They may not know, or they might say, "Oh, it's 1978." And you're like, "Oh, uh, what? No." "No, no, no, it's not." And it's like, "Oh yeah, it's 1978." And you're like, "Okay, that's not a good sign. Something's wrong with your brain." Um- And then if we look at, well, what exactly can cause delirium?

That's where I believe we see at least support for the brain energy theory, which is anything that can disrupt or dysregulate metabolism can cause delirium. So a lack of oxygen. So what is oxygen primarily used for in the human body? It's primarily and abundantly used [00:51:00] for, by mitochondria for metabolism or energy production.

That is, that is why we have to breathe in and breathe out. And when we breathe out, what are we breathing out? We're breathing out carbon dioxide, and where does that come from? That's a waste product of metabolism. So that's how to-- I mean, that's how foundational metabolism is to human health. And if you deprive people of oxygen, whether it's suffocation, whether it's asthma or pneumonia, whether it's, um, whether it's just being at a really high altitude and being vulnerable and sick, um, when you deprive people of oxygen, you can see them get delirious.

And y- so you can see them all of a sudden begin to develop any or all of the signs or symptoms of mental illness. But then I was also looking at what else can make people delirious, like a broad range of medical [00:52:00] conditions, toxins, medication overdoses. Like all sorts of things can make people delirious.

But in my mind, if you then look at all of those different things and kind of ask yourself the question, do they converge anywhere? Do all of these different things converge anywhere? I would argue yes. They converge at the level of mitochondria and metabolism. And why is that? It's because metabolism is so important to human physiology.

So it's not like it's this mysterious, ironic thing. It's metabolism is the elephant in the room when it comes to human health. And so of course it's gonna affect the elephant in the room. How could it not? Why wouldn't it? And but let's open our eyes to the elephant in the room and start paying more attention to the elephant in the room.

Hala Taha: Uh, and we need to understand how we can make it the healthiest elephant in the room possible. Uh, so let's, let's move on to like solutions, like what we're supposed to do. [00:53:00] So, uh, you had this really awesome case study. You treated a thirty-three-year-old patient who had schizophrenia named Tom, and he had hallucinations and delusions for thirteen years.

He tried seventeen different medications. And you originally suggested that he go on a keto diet, uh, to lose weight and, you know, he had a lot more happen to him. So talk to us about this case, what it unlocked for you, what you learned, and what we can learn from it.

Dr. Chris Palmer: So it's really interesting 'cause this particular patient had-- He'd been my patient for about eight years at that point, and he had tried so many traditional treatments.

He was being treated at McLean Hospital and Harvard M- Medical School, where I work, which is one of the top-ranked psychiatric hospitals in the world. He had been in and out of the hospital, in and out of residential treatment programs and other things, so he was getting the best care possible. And even for people who [00:54:00] wanna say, "Dr.

Palmer, you suck. You're not a good doctor"- ... he was getting treatment from other people. And even with the best of the best care, he was profoundly ill and just tormented by his symptoms. Um, and so when I prescribed the ketogenic diet, within a couple of weeks, he s- he was not only losing weight, but he was...

I was noticing, like, this dramatic antidepressant effect in him, and he was just making better eye contact and smiling more and talking more. And I was initially, like, a little bit surprised. I'm like, "What's gotten into you?" Like, "Why are you so happy all of a sudden?" Like, "What's going on?" And, and it wasn't just that he was happy about losing weight.

It was, it was, like, profound, and he was, like, talking about all sorts of things that he had never really talked about. The thing that really upended my career and really changed the trajectory of my career was, it was about two months in, [00:55:00] so it didn't happen overnight, but about two months in, he actually started telling me that, "My hallucinations are going away, my delusions are going away."

He was like, "You know, Dr. Palmer, how I think there are all these families torturing me and targeting me, and they have technology that can control my thoughts and all that stuff?" And initially, I was like, "Oh, yeah, we've talked about that a million times. Are we gonna talk about that again?" And, and then he was like, "I, I actually...

Now that I'm saying it, I don't think it's true, and maybe it never was and maybe, like everybody's been trying to tell me, I've had schizophrenia all along, and maybe my schizophrenia is going away."

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: That man went on to lose now o- over 160 pounds and has kept it off to this day, 10 years later. That man was able to move out of his [00:56:00] father's home, live independently for a while, like start doing things that he had not been able to do.

And it honestly, it was truly just mind-blowing for me initially. And but it-- I knew that I couldn't ignore it. Um, even though I was initially in disbelief myself, I was like, "This can't be happening." Like, what the hell? What the hell is this? But I knew I couldn't ignore it, and that I somehow had Kind of a moral or ethical obligation to try to understand it as best I could.

And ultimately, that's what led to me doing the work that I do today and have been doing for over 10 years, and it's ultimately what, what led to me developing this theory.

Hala Taha: And so what actually happened when you put him on the keto diet? Why is low carb, um, why is the keto [00:57:00] diet so amazing for mental health and not only just losing weight?

Dr. Chris Palmer: You know, so the easiest place to start with that is unbeknownst to most people who've heard of the keto diet for weight loss or a dangerous fad diet or the American Heart Association hates this diet, and you're all gonna die of a heart attack- ... um, unbeknownst to all of those people, the ketogenic diet is actually a 100-year-old evidence-based treatment for epilepsy.

It was not developed as a weight loss diet. It was actually developed to stop seizures by a neurologist, and it is now an evidence-based treatment for epilepsy. It can stop seizures even when medications fail to work. And why is that important? It's really important because we use epilepsy treatments every day in psychiatry in tens of millions of people.

[00:58:00] Most of them are pills, but medications that are just pres- that are developed to stop seizures commonly work for conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or depression or anxiety or eating disorders or all sorts of things. And we actually know a tremendous amount about the science of how the ketogenic diet does stop seizures.

It changes neurotransmitters, reduces brain inflammation, like, does all sorts of things. Central to my thesis, it improves mitochondrial health as well. So it improves metabolic health, mitochondrial health. And is any of that relevant? So all of that is relevant to epilepsy, so if you ask the question, "Well, is any of that relevant to mental illness?"

It turns out all of it is relevant to mental illness, and again, we have decades of science to prove that. And so, so even that story, [00:59:00] I was able to connect a lot of scientific dots, and I think that's why, you know, even I was able to get it published in prominent journals like Schizophrenia Research. Um, initially, I really was worried, "Nobody's gonna take this seriously.

They're not gonna publish this. They're not... No, ev- people are gonna laugh at me. I might get fired from my job." "Like, people are gonna think I'm crazy." Um- And so I went into it knowing that, knowing that everybody's gonna be skeptical about this, nobody's gonna take it seriously, and the only chance I have of getting them to take it seriously is I have to understand the science.

I have to understand why they should take this seriously, and do we have enough science? And I'm so grateful to all of the hundreds or thousands of researchers who have been doing this work tirelessly for the last century because they put together this evidence base that I could tap into and [01:00:00] use to advance this work.

So it was really, they created the puzzle pieces, and I looked at those pieces of the puzzle and began to put them together in a coherent way. So, but I would have never been able to do it without all of their work.

Hala Taha: So with, with keto, just so we can understand it, like, let's try to make this as actionable as possible for our listeners.

They're entrepreneurs, they're high achievers listening in. They obviously want better physical health. They definitely want better mental health. They don't wanna be burned out. They wanna be able to focus. A lot of entrepreneurs have ADHD, that's for sure. How can we leverage this knowledge of knowing that the keto diet can also improve our mitochondrial health, and, like, what, what are some things that we can do to start aligning closer to the keto diet, where it's not a diet, where it's, like, more of a lifestyle?

Dr. Chris Palmer: Yeah, it can be. I, so I would say the first thing for any of your listeners who are wondering, "Could any of this apply to [01:01:00] me personally?" The first thing I would ask them to do is just assess their overall mental health and metabolic health. Like, do they have a mental health or a metabolic health problem?

If they don't, then I would say please keep doing what you're doing. And, like, you're, you're, you're living the dream, and good for you, and I really don't care what it is. If you're a vegan, if you're a vegetarian, if you're eating meat all day, like, I don't care what you're doing, it's clearly working well for you, and just keep doing it.

But to everybody else, and that's about 93% of the, your listeners, To everybody else, 93% of Americans right now have at least one biomarker of poor metabolic health So that is, and there are only five basic biomarkers we're talking about. So that is abdominal obesity, high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol, insulin [01:02:00] resistance, um, and high blood pressure.

Those are the five things, and 93% of Americans have one or more of those in the abnormal, unhealthy territory. So if you are one of those people and/or you also have mental health symptoms, I think everything we're talking about is highly relevant to you. And, and so the reason I bring up those biomarkers is because those can be helpful to help people understand, am I making progress?

And so if you are overweight or obese, the simplest way to start this would not necessarily ketogenic diet. I would never stand in the way 'cause it's a very good weight loss tool for a lot of people. So if you are open to doing ketogenic diet, go for it. But e- even if you're not, you could use other weight loss strategies to improve your health You could start exercising [01:03:00] more.

So I would really rest strongly on the pillars of lifestyle medicine, so that's healthy diet nutrition, s- good sleep, avoiding harmful substances, having good relationships, stress reduction practices. I forget if I said exercise. Exercise, I think, is the last one. So six pillars of lifestyle medicine, and I would say try to optimize those.

Try to optimize your diet, try to optimize those other things. And how do you know if you're succeeding? If you're succeeding, if you're doing the right things, 'cause I know you're getting conflicting advice. If you go on social media, you're , you're gonna get all sorts of conflicting advice about what's the right diet?

What's the e- right exercise program? Marijuana, it's good for you. No, it's bad for you. Alcohol, make sure you drink two drinks a day. No, don't drink anything. I get it. It's so confusing. What are we supposed to be doing? How do you know if you're doing the right thing? Your health is going to be improving.[01:04:00]

Your mental health is gonna be improving, your physical health is gonna be improving, your metabolic health is gonna be improving. And if it's not, don't say, "Woe is me," don't say you're just getting older and you have slow metabolism. Don't make excuses. They're lame excuses. Find out what you need to do.

And sometimes it's not just, you know, do it harder, uh, be more disciplined. Sometimes you're just not following the right plan.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: And so, you know, if you're in that situation, then maybe move on from do it yourself, 'cause a lot of this people can do themselves. So please, by all means, do it yourself, and if it works, great.

You've accomplished your goal. But if it doesn't work, please understand there's a whole Kind of army of healthcare professionals waiting to help you. Mm-hmm. Your primary care physician, health and wellness [01:05:00] coaches, fitness trainers, so m- dieticians, nutritionists, so many people wanna help you optimize your health.

So s- get help, get support, get better advice, get better recommendations until you find the things that work for you.

Hala Taha: Now, uh, let's, let's move on to, like, more of, like, entrepreneurship in general. So a lot of entrepreneurs, they wear, uh, some of their neurodivergence as, like, a badge of honor. Like, like, they believe, like, ADHD is a superpower, which, which can be.

Like, I feel like I have a bit of ADHD, and it, it kind of really helps me in certain instances of my career. Um, and even, like, where, like, sometimes autism is worn with a badge of our, uh, honor, especially if, like, you're on a, you know, a, a spectrum where you can be pr- productive, right? Um, so what would you say to them?

Would you say is that an energy imbalance that we need to improve? Or, like, what would you say to somebody that is, like, proud of their ADHD? [01:06:00]

Dr. Chris Palmer: You know, even those two examples, and they're great examples, and for anybody who's not really familiar with, like, the autism and entrepreneurship, s- some of the, actually the wealthiest people in the world are probably on the spectrum.

Some of them have openly disclosed that. Um, Bill Gates has openly disclosed that. Uh, Elon Musk has openly disclosed that, and there are many others. So some of the most brilliant people on the planet are on the spectrum. And, um, and in some ways that's not surprising because we've long known that a select group of people with autism do have these kind of extraordinary cognitive abilities.

Um, and if they can capitalize on them and use them for good, um, then it, it's, it, it's nothing short of amazing what they are able to accomplish. And I would never wanna stand in the [01:07:00] way of an Elon Musk or a Bill Gates or someone else who's on a warpath to change the world and improve the world economy and our lives and technology and everything else.

Like, get out of their way and let them do their thing. Um, why not? But At the same time, people who are on the autism spectrum, including those individuals, often suffer. Um, even Elon Musk talks about his horrible childhood and a lot of the social adversity he experienced. Um, he's had trouble maintaining relationships, uh, with wives.

Um, and does that matter? Yeah, it probably does matter. And does it matter to him? It probably does matter to him. Um, and so I do think, and I know he has self-medicated with substances and other things, and he [01:08:00] actively talks about it, and sometimes he goes on talk shows and actively uses right there right on the talk show, so to leave no doubt.

And so even for somebody extraordinarily successful, extraordinarily brilliant, extraordinarily wealthy and powerful, they can still suffer. And do I think that these strategies can be helpful for them? Yes, no doubt. Like, to answer your basic question, does brain energy metabolism apply to ADHD and autism?

One hundred percent unequivocal yes. The mitochondrial theory of autism was actually first proposed in 1985.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: 40 years ago. And so we've actually long known, and we have an abundance of scientific research linking brain energy metabolism or mitochondrial function with both ADHD and autism spectrum.

So does that [01:09:00] mean that if somebody sends me a person with profound autism, can I cure them of their autism? No. No, I can't. Because autism and ADHD on some levels are neurodevelopmental, and neurodevelopment is happening and then It sometimes becomes fixed. So we have neurodevelopmental windows or periods of time during which people need to acquire certain skills and certain brain regions and brain cells and synaptic connections and other things need to happen.

And if they don't happen kind of quote unquote neurotypically or w-- if they don't happen neurotypically, then they can result in neurodivergence or neurodiversity. And sometimes those changes may not be reversible, and that person is gonna have some of those traits long term. [01:10:00] However, some of those things are still ongoing, and some of those things are due to a brain energy metabolism dysregulation, and we can actively treat those symptoms and help reduce suffering and improve function in people.

Um, there's no doubt about it. I have a lot of patients who are on the spectrum, and these strategies can be extraordinarily powerful for at least some of them. Um, uh, I never say all because I can't cure everybody or I can't dramatically improve the lives of everyone because not every treatment is gonna work for every person.

And so sometimes it starts getting complicated, and we need to think about what treatment are we gonna use. Are we gonna use a medication, a dietary intervention, exercise, sleep, substance use treatment? Like, what are we gonna do? And so it can get complicated fast. Um, nonetheless, there is no doubt in my mind these [01:11:00] strategies that I've outlined in brain energy can apply to people with a broad range of neurodevelopmental conditions, uh, psychiatric conditions, neurodegenerative conditions, and I do think they can really change lives and improve lives.

Hala Taha: What would you say to the listener right now who's on antidepressants? They're, you know, working with a provider who's prescribed them to them, never talked to them about this brain energy theory. What would you tell them to do?

Dr. Chris Palmer: I think the first thing I would just recognize, kind of like we talked about, that I, I do believe serotonin, for example, that's a big mechanism of action of some antidepressants, not all of them, um, that there's no doubt in my mind it does play a role in energy metabolism and mitochondrial function.

So I would say to that listener, if you're taking an antidepressant and it has changed your life for the better, and you're so-- you feel so much better on it than off it, by all [01:12:00] means, please keep taking it. If you're not having any side effects, congratulations. So if it has robustly worked for you, and it's continuing to work for you, and you're not really having side effects, I would say the easiest solution is just keep taking it However, 90% of people taking antidepressants, that's not the case.

Um, so 90% of people taking antidepressants, it's kinda sort of working, but not really. It has side effects. I'm gaining weight. I have sexual dysfunction. I can't... I'm not really interested in sex anymore. Um, it's slowing me down. I feel numb. I don't feel emotions like I used to. I don't feel like myself. Um, so if you're having any of those side effects, or it didn't really fully work for your symptoms, I would strongly encourage you first and foremost just to get [01:13:00] educated.

So it could be read the book, it could be watch this, listen to this podcast and learn more about this and the strategies that we're doing. But there are so many free resources available. Even my book, you can get it at a lot of libraries, so don't buy it. Just go- If you don't want to, I'm not trying to sell you anything.

I'm just trying to help you. If you don't wanna buy it, go to the library and get a copy for two weeks and read it. Um, so there are lots of free things you can do to learn and get educated, but it's really about that is your baseline. Like understand what we're doing, understand what your goals are, kind of understand the different aspects that you need to work on.

So that person on an antidepressant, are they also overweight? Do they have diabetes? Are they pre-diabetic? Are they overeating comfort foods? Um, are they drinking too much? Are they smoking marijuana every night to [01:14:00] relax? Do they sleep okay? Are they exercising at all? And depending on your answers to those questions, I'm gonna prescribe different interventions.

And the, the interventions are obvious. It's not rocket science. You don't have to be an entrepre-- You, you don't have to be a, a neuroscientist or a psychiatrist or even an entrepreneur to understand this. You just need to... Like, the solutions are obvious based on the questions I ask.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Dr. Chris Palmer: And if those things apply to you, then you can think about, well, which one do I wanna try first?

And then what am I gonna do next? And one thing at a time. Some other people like to dive in and just do it all at once. I don't care. It really doesn't matter to me. Y- Just do something, like try to improve your health. Because I do wanna say, I just, I just know that there are literally hundreds of millions of people on this [01:15:00] planet Who are living suboptimal lives because they do not have optimal mental and metabolic health.

And it means that they feel brain fogged, unmotivated, uh, uninterested in sex. Um, those are the less concerning ones, all the way to, "I'm tormented by these voices. I'm tormented by my chronic depression and suicidality. I'm tormented by my OCD symptoms. I can't take it anymore." Um, and I really honestly believe that this field, this science, this research, these treatment strategies offer new opportunities of hope and healing to all of these people.

Hala Taha: If you could distill down, like, three to five things that our listeners can do today [01:16:00] to optimize their brain energy and their mental health, what would they be? I know you mentioned, like, you know, exercise and things, but, like, what are more, like, specific things that we can do or things that we can replace, like, that you know that common things that people typically do that we can do differently?

Dr. Chris Palmer: So the first one that I am gonna l- list, I know it's cliche and whatever, but it, it... You gotta optimize your diet 'cause if you are eating really kinda harmful, inflammatory, high glycemic foods every day throughout the day, i- i- it's gonna be very challenging for you to do much more. So at a minimum, just i- what would I recommend?

If you're eating a lot of ultra-processed foods, takeout, you know, junk food, try to eat more whole, real foods. Try to cook some meals at home from scratch. Like, y- make a [01:17:00] piece of salmon. You know, uh, steam some vegetables. Uh, uh, cook a steak. Like, make some eggs in the morning instead of the breakfast cereal, whatever.

Um, so optimize your diet. The second thing I would probably recommend is optimize your sleep. One-third of Americans aren't getting enough sleep. You need seven, eight hours of restful sleep every night. The, probably the, the best bio hack I have for sleep is go to bed earlier than you're currently going to bed.

Um, and why? Because I'm gonna guess you're probably tired before you go to bed. And why do I say that? Because you're couch surfing Netflix, or you're on your phone scrolling social media. And why are you doing that? Because you're burned out. You're tired. You're exhausted from a long day. You're stressed.

You're trying to get all the stressful projects in your mind out of your mind. [01:18:00] And guess what? If you fall asleep, they'll all be out of your mind. And, and that's your easy escape. So go to bed early. The beautiful thing, if you really go to bed super early, the beautiful thing is you might be able to start getting an adequate amount of sleep and waking up without an alarm.

And I have to say, that is one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself, is to be able to wake up without an alarm. And why do I say without an alarm? 'Cause an alarm by definition is disrupting how much sleep you need. Your body clearly needed more sleep, that's why it was still sleeping, and you are disrupting that.

So if you can let yourself get more sleep, that would be great. I- the, the third thing I would say probably is reduce harmful substance use. So if you're over-drinking, over-using marijuana, if you are vaping, if you're smoking, um, please s- [01:19:00] reduce those behaviors or stop doing those things. Mm. And, um, fourth thing probably would be add in some exercise.

Um, I would actually put them in this order, like diet number one, sleep number two, harmful substance use reduction number three, and, and then throw in some exercise. And the exercise could start with a simple... If you're really not doing much of anything, go for a walk around the block at the end of the day.

Just, you know, maybe eat your dinner, 'cause you're gonna try to get to bed early. So eat your dinner right when you get home- ... and then go for a little walk, like a little 15-minute, 30-minute walk. If you have a partner, take your partner with you, and that will build your relationship with your partner. You might just talk, chat with each other about, "How did your day go, honey?

How was my day? What are you worried about? What are you stressed about?" [01:20:00] Um, and, uh, that could go, that could be a huge life-changing, game-changing kind of- routine that you could build into your day, and then you come home and you unwind, and then you try to get to bed early.

Hala Taha: I love that advice. Good, good concrete advice.

Okay, last question to you. I wanna respect your time. Uh, what is the opportunity for entrepreneurs who might wanna get into this space or support people with their mental health?

Dr. Chris Palmer: I think there are countless opportunities to entrepreneurs. So as you mentioned, it can start with your own personal health.

Optimize your personal health. If you optimize your brain function, you're probably gonna optimize your performance at work, your business strategies, your productivity, all of it. So if you optimize your health, you may very well optimize your revenue streams and profit margins. Number two, look [01:21:00] at doing this in your emp- in your employees, because if you can optimize their health, they will be more productive.

They will be more resilient. They will be less likely to call in sick. They will be, um, have great ideas. They'll have greater motivation, cognitive function. Trust me, an employee whose brain is running on all cylinders is gonna be much more productive than your burned-out, fried employee after lunch who's surfing the internet whenever nobody's looking.

Um, and so that can be a way. And then for those who are really interested in the mental health or fitness or metabolic health space There are countless business opportunities just to opt to, to kind of capitalize on this science, all the way to biotech companies. I've spoken with many pharmaceutical and biotech companies who are extraordinarily interested in this space, [01:22:00] and the science and developing new products, new medications, new supplements, new, new things that can be used to help improve people's mental and metabolic health.

So that could be a billion-dollar product that you end up helping to develop. But if you're in the technology space, there are needs for AI assistance with how do we do this? How do we use all of this information, put it together? Um, there are apps that could empower individuals to improve their mental and metabolic health.

I mean, the, just the list goes on and on and on. You could think about incorporating this into gyms. You could think about incorporating this into restaurants. You can... I

mean, I, I, I'm, I'm really hard-pressed to think of any one business in which this doesn't one way or another somehow apply. And so for those of you who are really interested in it, wanna dig into this [01:23:00] science, wanna think about creative solutions, um, again, there's a massive market opportunity. The world's health is abysmal right now.

There's so much opportunity to capitalize on that and make money, and in the process, help other human beings. So like win-win.

Hala Taha: I totally agree. Chris, this was such an awesome interview. Um, I end my show with one question I ask all of my guests. What would you say your secret to profiting in life is? And this can go beyond financial.

So what is your secret of success?

Dr. Chris Palmer: You know, I think the most important thing for me, research bears this out, is relationships. So cultivating and paying attention to other human beings. And, you know, as, as a healer physician, I'm particularly motivated to just help other [01:24:00] human beings when they're down and out, but it's truly just amazing How often those human beings then will step up for you when you need it, and will reciprocate, and even just the gratitude that they can express just, you know, f- fills my heart and keeps me going.

Hala Taha: I was talking to somebody recently who said, "If you ever need to decide how to spend your money or your time, always choose relationships." And that stuck with me.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Yeah.

Hala Taha: Chris, this was an awesome interview. Thank you so much for your time. Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?

Dr. Chris Palmer: You could just go to chrispalmermd.com. That's the easiest place. Chrispalmermd.com.

Hala Taha: Amazing. We'll stick that link in the show notes. Chris, thank you again for joining us on Young and Profiting podcast.

Dr. Chris Palmer: Thank you so much

Hala Taha: Yeah, fam, this was such a fascinating conversation with Dr. Chris Palmer, and I think one of the biggest shifts from today's episode is realizing that mental health and physical health are not [01:25:00] separate.

Your brain is a physical organ, and it also runs on energy, and when your metabolism, sleep, nutrition, stress, or substance use are out of balance, your brain feels it, too. One thing that really stood out to me was Dr. Chris's explanation that the brain is only 2% of our body weight, yet it uses 20% of our body's energy.

That means burnout, brain fog, anxiety, lack of focus, and even emotional instability aren't always just personality traits or mindset problems. Sometimes your brain is under-fueled, over-stimulated, inflamed, or simply exhausted, and I think that's incredibly empowering because it means there are practical things that we can do to improve the way that we think, feel, and perform.

First, you gotta start treating your lifestyle like it's part of your mental health strategy. Protect your sleep, move your body consistently, and cut back on ultra-processed foods, alcohol, and habits that drain your energy. Second, pay attention to your metabolic health now, not 10 years from now. Dr. Chris talked about how obesity, insulin [01:26:00] resistance, and poor metabolic markers are strongly linked to future mental health challenges.

Your health is not just about how you look. It affects your focus, resilience, mood, and longevity. And finally, don't accept feeling terrible as your baseline. One of the most inspiring moments in this episode was hearing about a patient with severe schizophrenia who transformed his life after improving his metabolic health.

That story is a reminder that the brain can change, heal, and recover more than most people realize, and he did this all through a keto diet. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Young and Profiting podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation with Dr. Chris Palmer, then spread the word and help others listen, learn, and profit as well.

And if you did enjoy this show and you wanna thank us, then drop us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Castbox, wherever you listen to the show. Nothing helps us reach more people better than a good review from you. If you prefer to watch your podcasts as videos, you can find us on YouTube or Spotify Video.

Just look up Young and Profiting, and you'll find all of our video episodes there. [01:27:00] You can also find me on Instagram at yapwithhala or LinkedIn by searching my name, Hala Taha. And finally, a huge thank you to my Yap team. You guys are all legends. This is your host, Hala Taha, AKA The Podcast Princess, signing off.