[00:00:00] Hala Taha: Young and profiters. I truly believe that health is wealth. And when it comes to being an entrepreneur, if you're not at your optimal health, you are definitely not being your optimal productive entrepreneur that you could be. That's why today I brought on a functional medicine expert, Dr. Will Cole. He's one of the top functional medical experts in the world.

He's also a New York Times bestselling author. His most recent book is called Gut Feelings. We're going to be talking a lot about that today. And he's the host of a very popular podcast called The Art of Living. So in today's conversation, we're going to talk about functional medicine, what it is, how it differs from traditional medicine.

We're going to talk about the fact that mental health is actually not separate from physical health. We're going to talk about a concept called shameflammation and what that means and how we can avoid it. And we're also going to learn how to practice more self care and control the metaphysical food as well as the physical food that we put in our bodies.

So I can't wait for this conversation. It's going to be super insightful. Without further ado, Dr. Will Cole, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. 

 My goodness, thanks so much for having me. 

I love the topic of gut health and I love science topics and I know my listeners love it as well. So I'm really pumped for this interview. So my first question, I'm just going to jump right into it. I know that you are a functional medicine expert.

So I was curious to understand what is functional medicine exactly and how does it differ from traditional medicine? 

[00:02:57] Will Cole: I started the first functional medicine telehealth center over 14 years ago just for background context. I've been in this world for a long time. It's grown a lot. Now the Cleveland Clinic has a functional medicine center.

It's a lot more both and, not either or, which in my opinion is how it should be, an integrative both and approach. But if I had to define it, number one, we interpret labs using a thinner reference range. So anybody that's listening to this or watching this. If you have your labs, you know the number that you have on your lab and you're being compared to this reference range, this X to Y interval.

Where do we get that reference range? It's based off of a statistical bell curve average of people who go to that lab. See, that reference range will probably vary from lab to lab. It's non standardized with a few exceptions. For the most part, it's based off of that bell curve. Who are people that typically go to labs?

They're people that aren't feeling the best. That's why they go into labs. So it's skewed towards. not the healthiest group that you're being compared to. So there's a lot of people that intuitively know, Hey, I know my body, something's off here. This fatigue, this weight gain, this digestive problem, this inflammatory problem, this mental health issue, whatever it is.

They go to the doctor and the doctor runs the basic labs and the labs come back largely quote unquote normal. Think about it like this, comparing yourself to people with health problems is no way for you to find out how you can feel your best. And just because something's common doesn't necessarily make it normal.

Ubiquity doesn't necessarily equate with normal states. So we're looking at optimal, not average. We're looking at a tighter interval within that larger reference range. Where does vibrant wellness reside? Where does longevity reside? Where does health span reside? That's the functional range, where your body is functioning the best.

That's the first thing that is very different. Second thing is we're running more comprehensive labs, so we're looking at underlying mechanisms of action, underlying root causes, like underlying gut problems, which we could talk about, or environmental toxins, or chronic viral infections, or mold toxins, we see a lot of, or hormonal amounts, whatever the case may be.

We want to get to the root cause of why somebody has that symptom, that check engine light in the first place. And then we realize we're all different. There's no cookie cutter approach to getting well. We want to be tailored to someone's bio individuality, and that's health history, that's labs, that's context.

Using food as medicine, using natural medicines when needed, using Mind body practices, somatic practices, breathwork meditation, that kind of stuff, and medications when needed, and biohacking practices when needed, to really be tailored to the individual. So in short, it's a both and approach, it's an evidence based approach, using what's the most effective option that's causing them the least amount of side effects.

That's our litmus test. And I think it speaks clearly to our top patient base for the last 14 years are engineers, entrepreneurs, school teachers, and nurses, and I found that the commonality between those different fields It's a love of spreadsheets and getting to the root cause and fixing things and not just covering up symptoms.

Those are my people and I want to figure out what's keeping them back. 

[00:06:11] Hala Taha: Oh my God, this is so good because there's so many things that you just said that I literally had no idea about. I didn't realize that functional medicine is more about being optimal and how traditional medicine is so focused on people with disease and if you're healthy and you just want to get better.

I This is your route to do it, not comparing yourself to sick people and following what they need to do for their health. So it makes a lot of sense. In terms of how you got inspired to enter this field, what were you doing career wise before this? What inspired you? And I know that your childhood also was an important factor.

[00:06:45] Will Cole: Yeah, I grew up in a home that was interested in wellness. My dad was a bodybuilder. This was like in the 80s and 90s. So not that all bodybuilders are interested in health, but he was, and I thought it was normal to have your dad lubed up with baby oil and like a turquoise Speedo and like going to these competitions.

It's so weird, but like Arnold Schwarzenegger era of bodybuilding, right? But when we go to the health food store and go to the co op and I realized early on that I was eating different than my friends and family were. Those early years are very formative in our lens in which we see the world in many ways, for good and bad.

And that was definitely a good part of it. And that evolved to me wanting to be formally trained in this. So I went to Southern California University of Health Sciences where there's MDs and DCs and acupuncturists and oriental medicine and nurse practitioners all learning their field in health sciences.

And that's where I went to school and I knew that I wanted to be formally trained in functional medicine. So my post doctorate is in functional medicine through the Institute for Functional Medicine. I guess in short, I've always been a health nerd. You know, I was a kid in high school packing my lunches with like bell peppers and the random superfood that I read about and was biohacking before biohacking was a thing.

now I get to help other people. figure out their health problems. 

[00:08:09] Hala Taha: And you've made a really big name for yourself. In fact, you've worked with Gwyneth Paltrow and that was like a really big gossip story when it came out. And you helped her with her diet regimen and with her company, Goop. So how did you guys first link up?

What's the story of how you worked with Gwyneth Paltrow? 

[00:08:26] Will Cole: We had mutual friends and I've known her off the books, the last two books that I've released after Goop Press and Penguin Random House. So there's that relationship, but before the books, the relationship came from her being a health seeker and wanting to optimize her health and take it to the next level.

And I think it's a testament to everybody, no matter what field you're in, is just to stay in your lane. I'm based in Western Pennsylvania, in rural Western Pennsylvania, not in Los Angeles, not in New York, not in Miami, doing my own thing, minding my own business. And just being the best me I can be to serve people and help people around the world.

And I think when you have high performers like her and other patients that have, no matter what space they're in, that speaks for itself. That work and results speak for itself. So it was just a meeting of minds when it came to people, me loving what I do and having passion for what I do, and her wanting to go to somebody that's been in this space for a long time and sees great results.

So it really was that. We became good friends and evolved into me writing things for Goop and different things from a functional medicine perspective, and then when Goop started their literary imprint, I was the first author on their end. imprint under Penguin Random House. So it's been a great relationship, both professionally and personally.

[00:09:52] Hala Taha: I love that. And one of the things that sparked my interest when I was reading about your work with Gwyneth Caltrer is that you were helping her with her long COVID. And I feel like something that probably I would say 80 percent of people listening had gotten COVID already. So what are the symptoms of long COVID?

I don't really hear about it much. Do you feel like that's still a thing? What would be the symptoms of that? 

[00:10:14] Will Cole: Yeah, I mean, inflammatory problems are a thing, sadly. I mean, I think in that triggering, that exacerbation of inflammatory cascades in people's body can be COVID. It could be COVID for people, but it could be stress and trauma for the next person.

It could be a viral issue, another viral issue for another person, or an underlying gut problem. There was just, since 2020, more conversations in the media around that, and it was a novel virus, so we didn't know how it would interact with certain people's bodies, and we still don't know everything, but I think it was just, definitely got a lot of news, because people were seeing these long hauler, long COVID symptoms, which we still do see clinically.

So whether the news is paying attention to it or not, I guess is one thing, I'm not really following the news per se, but I will say clinically, we are seeing that. Some people bounce back from COVID just fine, and for some people there's these lingering symptoms. You heard for a while people wouldn't get their taste back, their taste would go away, or their brain fog would last, or their fatigue would last, and it would trigger some autoimmune problem in other people.

So it wasn't across the board, but it was this subset of people that have these long chronic symptoms that was triggered by a virus, in this case COVID. But that's nothing new. Post viral triggering of things. It can happen for many people, like Epstein Barr virus is a good example. Not everybody that gets Epstein Barr virus issues has chronic symptoms, but some people they do.

They can get chronic fatigue syndrome from it. So it's this interplay of a lot of variables that the trigger can be the virus, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. There's other things that are at play. 

[00:11:50] Hala Taha: Yeah. And I know that we're going to talk a lot about stress, trauma later in this conversation, which is probably more relatable to most people in terms of how they can get inflammation in their bodies.

So you have this new book, it's called Gut Feelings. What inspired you to look at the relationship between food and emotions and how we can heal our body using food and emotions? 

[00:12:13] Will Cole: It's born out of my clinical work, my day job, and when you're looking at labs 10 hours a day for as long as I've had. You hear a lot of stories that are behind the labs, a lot of people's lives and what precipitated where they're at.

So gut feelings is really a ripple effect of that focus with telehealth patients. So the name gut feelings, you think of that on a human level, when you think of these cliches that we say, part of the human lexicon of gut feelings, gut instincts, I just feel it in my gut. Gut, butterflies in my stomach, somehow our ancestors and just humanity knew that the gut was in some way the seat of the soul.

And now research is catching up with antiquity, that the majority of our health begins at least to some degree in the gut. Our gut and brain are formed from the same fetal tissue, and so when babies are growing in their mother's womb, the gut and brain are formed from that same tissue, and it's inextricably linked for the rest of our lives through what's known in the scientific literature as the gut brain axis, the connection between my gut and the brain.

If you think about it, even on a physical level, the gut, the intestines resembles the brain in many ways, and it's connected through the vagus nerve, which is the largest cranial nerve in the body. It's responsible for the resting, digesting, that parasympathetic aspect of the brain. of the autonomic nervous system.

It comes from the Latin word, which means wanderer, wondering, because it's the largest cranial nerve in the body. And it's when you're talking about when somebody gets nervous and with public speaking or something like that, they maybe have to run to the bathroom or that there are many examples of the connection with how's the crosstalk, this bi directional relationship, how's my gut, my intestines impacting my brain and vice versa.

And vice versa. So It's gut feelings, we're looking at the physical stuff, the gut stuff, and the feelings, the mental, emotional, spiritual things that are impacting them. Because a massive part of our work in functional medicine is realizing that mental health is not separate from physical health. We like to relegate it in the West as like this abstract chemical imbalance, which science is very clear.

There was a meta analysis done last year looking at all the research of what's the root cause of. depression and anxiety, and it's not what we thought it was. It's not this chemical imbalance, but yet that's what's being pushed. And that's what most people believe, and it's impacting how they see themselves.

It's inherently broken, they have this chemical imbalance. But now we know that's really not held up by science. There's a field of research called the cytokine model of cognitive function. Cytokines are pro inflammatory cells. So the new science is showing that At least a component of it is how does inflammation impact how my brain works?

How does inflammation impact mental health? Well, 75 percent of the immune system, inflammation is a product of the immune system, is made in the gut. Stored in the gut. So it's no coincidence that to understand mental health you have to look at the gut, which is why researchers call the gut the second brain.

For that reason, and the fact that 95 percent of serotonin, your happy neurotransmitter, is made in the gut. Okay. 50 percent of dopamine is made in the gut, stored in the gut. They don't pass through the blood brain barrier, but what researchers are looking at, the new science, is how do these neurotransmitters that are made in the gut impact gut health, which works upon the vagus nerve?

That largest cranial nerve. How is that crosstalk between the gut and the brain and the gut? What's the health of that? Or what researchers call vagal tone. We're looking at the tone of this vagal nerve. That's weak in a lot of people, which is why you're seeing the epidemic of mental health issues and other nervous system dysregulation issues.

It's profoundly powerful and positive because the brilliant thing is, when you know what you're up against, you can do something about it. These are healable, improvable, supportable, overcomable things. You are not broken. So this is a message of having agency of your health and freedom to not settle for feeling less than you deserve.

[00:16:15] Hala Taha: I love this. I feel like there's so much to dig into and I love the fact that you're saying that we have agency. This is something that we can fix instead of placating ourselves with medicine and things Like depression meds, for example. Maybe that's something that we need, but maybe to your point, it's just the food that we're eating or something else that we're doing and we're not actually addressing the root cause.

So I love the work that you're doing. I do want to dig into a lot of the things that you said. You briefly mentioned that. We're having this mental health epidemic. I would love for you to spend some time shedding some color on how bad is this mental health crisis right now? 

[00:16:51] Will Cole: Oh, it's massive. I mean, you look at the level of people that are struggling with depression and only has increased.

We talked about it since 2020, the level of isolation and depression and different mental health crises, anxiety, but it exists on a spectrum. mental health issues, background anxiety, not having a zest for life. It can show it up in the form of things like fatigue, where you think you're just tired, but it's really depression showing up.

And fatigue is part of that neuroinflammatory cycle that I talked about, too. And then it could be overt fatigue. diagnosable mental health issues and then everything in between. So it's rising and we have to ask the question, why? And it's not just one reason. It'd be overly productive for me to say it's one thing.

It's a confluence of factors, but we have to look at these multi pronged reasons, these pieces to the puzzle as to why we're faced with this level. of mental health issues and I think even redefining of how we even see it versus seeing it as a disorder or a disease or something inherently broken and you see it as a check engine light.

What is my body telling me right now that it's lacking and it needs some attention and really going inward. Literally, and metaphorically, of what's going on, what's my body trying to tell me. So having a gut and a feelings approach, a physical and a mental, emotional, spiritual approach, allows us to get those answers and just start to heal.

In short, to answer your question, why are we seeing it, what's the status, I mean, I think it's summarized best when you look at researchers looking at what they call an epigenetic genetic mismatch. That our genetics haven't really changed. researchers estimate, in over 10, 000 years. So basically, we're the same human that we've been for over 10, 000 years, but yet our world has changed so dramatically in a few generations, in such a finite period of time, and you're putting that into context with the totality of human history.

So it's an evolutionary mismatch is what they call it. So what are the factors there? It's the foods we're eating or the foods we're not eating. It's the, you know, impact on our environment, which we're intimately a part of. The decimation of the soil microbiome, which is connected to our gut microbiome.

So the foods we're eating are being impacted by that, which leads to many other things. Disturbances, nutrient deficiencies, etc. Again, this is our second brain is our gut. Technology, we have to look at technology's role, not as a demon that needs to be vilified, but something that we need to learn to live with in a more sane human way.

Thank you. And that's not one easy answer for that, but I mean, I work in telehealth, I love technology, but how do we harness the benefits of it, like connecting with people around the world right now, wonderful blessing, but we also know this is a double edged sword for many people that it can feed isolation, feed this sort of incessant FOMO inducing frenetic energy in their life, and environmental toxins.

I talked about the soil microbiome, but the air we're breathing, the water we're drinking, I mean, it's all playing a part of that. And then what we're doing to the food supply in many different ways. So with all of these things, this perfect storm of variables that is triggering genetic predispositions that have been there and lying dormant for 10, 000 years, but are being awoken like never before in human history because of this epigenetic genetic mismatch, this chasm between our DNA, which hasn't changed, and the world around us, this huge gap.

[00:20:24] Hala Taha: Yeah. So it's like 10, 000 years, our DNA has not changed, but in 10, 000 years, our life has changed so significantly. It's like our bodies don't know how to react. We're still reacting like we're in the stone age, but we're not. So we've got to figure that out. I'm going to talk to you about that in more detail later.

I do want to talk about the parasympathetic nervous system. You talked about the vagus nerve. That's basically the connection from the gut to the brain. From my understanding, that nervous system, parasympathetic nervous system is controlling fight or flight. Can you just help us understand what the purpose of that is?

Why we need to regulate it and pay attention to that? 

[00:21:02] Will Cole: A lack of parasympathetic tone is causing an over toning of the sympathetic response. So when we're talking about nervous system dysregulation on a basic level, we have two different branches of the autonomic nervous system. There's the sympathetic and the parasympathetic.

The sympathetic is fight, flight, or freeze. It's that, okay, I'm being chased by some predator. But there may or may not even be a predator there. Most people find themselves in this overtoned sympathetic nervous system response. And the parasympathetic, that resting, digesting, hormone balance, anti anxiety, like grounded state, is weak.

So when we say nervous system dysregulation, that's what we mean. Poor vagal tone, which is the master regulator of the parasympathetic, that calming mechanism, and then over activation of the sympathetic. So that's what dysregulation in part means. So how do we rectify that? Well, it's improving vagal tone in part.

So how do you do that? You improve gut health, which is a major part of that resting, digesting, digesting gut health. Um, improving gut health is a major part of improving vagal tone. And, uh, not just that, but we want to have a sort of multifaceted approach here. But that's what we need to do. And most people, they don't even know they have poor vagal tone.

And it could be showing up in many different ways, like background anxiety that I mentioned, that wired and tired feeling, anxious but exhausted feeling, brain fog, fatigue, even to this larger dysregulation of what's known as the neuro immuno endocrine axis. So the nervous system is just one part of that.

But the intersection between your nervous system, your immune system in the form of inflammation, it's a product of the immune system, and the endocrine axis, the hormonal system. So we talk about nervous system dysregulation, but your body isn't separate things. It's integrated. It's interconnected. So it's part of a larger cascade of communication between different systems of the body.

So what we really look at is the neuro amino endocrine axis, because that's going to show up in hormone dysregulation, inflammation issues, and nervous system dysregulation. dysregulation. That's the majority of human right now, sadly. But again, the flip side of that is when you, like Maya Angelou said, when you know better, you do better.

Like we know more now than we've ever known before about this stuff. So our parents generation, our grandparents generation, they struggle with stuff too, but they just, if a white guy with a white coat said to do something, 

[00:23:30] Hala Taha: that's 

[00:23:31] Will Cole: what they did. But now it's like, no, we can have, we can be empowered on ourselves.

Long form conversations like we're having right now, the democratization and the decentralization of health information. That's amazing. That's a huge blessing. Because now you have people being informed, an informed populace that's wanting to have agency over their health in a way that we've never had before.

So while we're faced with so much as a society, we have more tools to do something about it. I see it as overwhelmingly positive. When people realize they have a choice in where their health is going. 

 I had a conversation with the CEO of 23andMe and it reminds me of my conversation with her because she's basically taking a lot of public stuff and bringing it into a private company and enabling people to find out about their genetic health for the first time, which has sort of been like under wraps from the insurance companies in the past.

[00:24:33] Hala Taha: because she's a private company, she's able to get all this data and then distribute it to people, whereas insurance companies, like I was saying, used to keep that information that could save lives under their belt because it's their own IP. So you were talking about a healthy gut and I know a big part of a healthy gut is having good, uh, balance with the microbes and bacteria in your gut.

So can you talk to us about how a healthy gut functions in relation to the bacteria that's in the gut? 

[00:25:01] Will Cole: We use 23andMe data on every patient too. What they're doing over there is so cool. Because we can use that data and you don't need a functional medicine doctor for it like you know when you had that conversation with her.

Anybody can do this, but we in functional medicine love it too because it does give us this amazing data for us to interplay, that's the genetic side, and we can look at methylation and detox pathways, so much stuff from the genetic data that they provide us. But then we interplay that with, the epigenetic stuff like underlying gut problems and nutrient deficiency.

So it's great data. I love that you had that conversation. I'm a big fan of them. As I mentioned, your guts form from the same fetal tissue, depending on the study that you look at. We have anywhere between 30 trillion to 100 trillion bacteria in our gut. And let's just go with, you know, a higher number, upwards of 100 trillion bacteria.

We have about 30 trillion human cells. You are exponentially more bacteria than human. We're outnumbered. We're sort of the sophisticated host for the gut microbiome that influences us more than we influence them. We can say we co evolved with it and it's a symbiotic relationship, which that in effect is still the case.

You can think of it like they literally control us. I mean, 95 percent of our serotonin is made in the gut, stored in the gut. So many of the things This is something maybe to think about when you crave a food or you have a bad day and you're irritable and you don't know why. When you have mood swings in your life, is it you or is it your gut bacteria that's influencing your brain?

So, this is this type of science that's in the scientific literature that sounds almost science fiction, but it's being looked at by gastroenterology researchers. So it's really exciting stuff that when you look at, kind of freaky, but at the same time you can do something about it. You can do things in your life to support a healthy, balanced microbiome, so you have this beautiful, balanced, symbiotic relationship, and you're not the whim of the cravings and the hangriness and the mood swings of a disrupted, dysregulated gut microbiome, this sort of gut garden, this microbiome metropolis.

Think of them as, they're called colony forming units. So there's different colonies of bacteria. And some are opportunistic, or pathogenic bacteria, which aren't inherently bad, but in higher levels, like these weeds that overgrow in this gut garden, they can influence and tell your brain to do things that aren't conducive to a healthy, balanced life.

You won't feel good. You'll feel dysregulated. So we have to understand that the gut influences your mood, impacts your mental health, impacts what you crave as far as food, relationships. You get more bang for your buck when you go upstream and get to the root cause. And for many people, your gut's gonna be a big, bigger needle mover for you being the best version of you.

[00:27:55] Hala Taha: It's so interesting to think about that if I changed my gut health, that my personality might change. It seems so like, unbelievable, but is that true? If somebody were to optimize their gut health, could it be that they would literally see significant changes in their personality? 

[00:28:12] Will Cole: I wouldn't say significant changes in personality, there's still going to be you, like you will still be you, I will still be me, but we'll be the best versions of ourselves.

We'll be a healthy, grounded, balanced, regulated version of ourselves. Some of y'all be certain things that you think are, like, the person that's out there, they think, oh, that's just the way that I am. Some people will say, I just shoot straight, I just tell it like it is. That's like a euphemism for being rude and unkind.

And they equate that with being a personality trait, but really it's just a dysregulated gut brain axis that when you improve their gut health, calm inflammation levels, they're going to be strong, they're going to be assertive, but they're going to do it in a way that is more healthy, right? They're going to do it in a way that's not cutting people down, but really just speaking truth in power, which is quite different than the frenetic.

horrible person, unkind person and saying that's their personality trait. So typically there's a personality trait that's covered by dysregulation and imbalances. So I want that uncovering to happen so they can shine brightly without the covering of dysregulation and inflammation in their life.

[00:29:23] Hala Taha: So in terms of improving our gut health, improving good bacteria, we've had a couple episodes on this. So I know a little bit. We should take a prebiotic, a probiotic, fermented foods. Is there anything that you want to call out, like, if you guys want to improve your gut health, do X, Y, and Z? 

[00:29:38] Will Cole: It starts with food, right?

I think the prebiotic, probiotic, postbiotics, we could talk about that. These end products of bacterial fermentation, the science is really interesting around that. It starts with food. And the foods you eat influences your microbiome. So having good, clean protein throughout the day to balance your blood sugar, which is really important when it comes to metabolic health, which in turn crosstalks with your gut health.

How you have healthy metabolic health, it's helping healthy gut health. And that, in part, starts with protein optimization. To the very least, getting 90 grams. of whole food, a complete amino acid profile throughout the day, 90 to 100 grams per day of clean protein that could be like grass fed beef, wild caught fish, something like that, organic chicken or turkey, healthy fats, not avoiding those.

For the healthy fat content, we know that the brain is 60 percent fat, 25 percent of all your body's cholesterol is in your brain, too. So things like avocado, again, fatty fish, sardines, anchovies, olives are another good source, extra virgin olive oil. Not just for the fat content, but the polyphenol antioxidant compound, which acts as prebiotics for your gut microbiome, which is food.

for all the bacteria in our gut. Um, you mentioned fermented foods. I think probiotic rich foods are a great tool as well. There's a few postbiotics that, because of what we've done to our gut microbiome, it can really, even if we eat healthy foods, We're not going to produce these post biotics, which are typically fermented, made by the gut.

So, you can get it from having antioxidant rich foods like pomegranates, for example, and bringing in more fruits and things like that into your diet. But some of us don't have the proper amounts of good bacteria to produce these post biotics. So there's in supplement form that you can supplement with something called urolithin A, which is a postbiotic, that your gut's going to make some of that if you have the right bacteria.

But you can get these therapeutic levels from a supplement form, it comes in powder or capsules. It's called, um, Urolithin A is a type of postbiotic. I like other short chain fatty acids which are also products of bacterial fermentation like supplementing with butyrate. I think spore based probiotics are another great source, because you're getting them from soil.

I mentioned that sort of symbiotic relationship we have with the soil microbiome, well, we've really messed up the soil microbiome because of modern ag, big ag. So we can supplement and replace what our ancestors would have just got from just living their life. Okay. And be strategic with that. And, you know, I'm a fan of soups and stews.

A lot of people have a lot of disrupted guts. So this isn't anything new, but it's remembering what our ancestors taught us when you look at Ayurvedic medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, a lot of traditional medicines around the world. Even the cliche of like chicken soup when someone's sick, it's not the noodles, it's the therapeutic part of it, it's the broth, it's the vegetables that are cooked down and easy to digest, it's the protein that's cooked down and easy to digest.

So going on like a souping and brothing protocol can be wonderfully restorative to a stressed out, dysregulated, inflamed gut. So I think those are some good tips to start with. 

[00:33:02] Hala Taha: Really, really good tips. I'll get more to that in a bit because I do want to cover other things.

Let's talk about shame formation. I love this word. I saw that. It's really fun to say. It's a big concept that you have in your book Gut Feelings. So what is shame formation? 

[00:33:17] Will Cole: It's a made up word. I appreciate that. As I mentioned, our one of our top patient bases are teachers. I have like a teacher mind in that way.

I'll wake up in the middle of the night and think, Oh, that's a good way of communicating whatever science that I'm trying to talk about. I see it played out in labs all the time. And you look at somebody that has a few different things. We have them fill out what's called an ACE questionnaire, which is used in conventional medicine.

It's used in the mental health psychiatry space. It's used in functional medicine. So it stands for adverse childhood events or experiences. So it's looking at really heavy stuff like sexual trauma growing up as a child, physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, just lots of really heavy things like that.

And the research is clear that the higher your A score, it's a component, it's increasing the likelihood to having different health issues growing on, and how trauma can be literally stored in the body impacting, amongst other things, methylation, the way that neurotransmitters are expressed, the way that inflammation is expressed.

in the body, different signaling pathways in the body. So different autoimmune problems are linked to trauma, mental health issues, metabolic issues, even trouble losing weight can be linked in the research and is linked in the research to these early childhood traumas. And then just beyond childhood, it's a cumulative experience as we have over the course of our life when it comes to mental, emotional, impact on our physiology.

So shameful nation is just my way of showing how do things like shame, emotional concepts like shame, and emotions like shame, and things that cause shame, like unresolved childhood trauma, and chronic stress. When someone's stressed out, they're maybe snapping at their loved ones because they're just overburdened, they're burnt out.

It's messing up their sleep, so they're very exhausted there, and they're just not the best versions of themselves. They're not present with their loved ones. They're not making good food choices because they're stress eating. There's a lot of shame spirals when it comes to Chronic stress, especially for entrepreneurs.

So we have to look at both past things, childhood trauma, and current chronic stress and how it's impacting shame. Cumulatively, how does things like shame impact our biochemistry, i. e. inflammation? The research is clear that people that have these high shame scores and high stress scores have higher inflammation levels.

But they could be eating the best food under the sun, they could be the quintessential people. biohacker aficionado taking the right supplements, listening to all the podcasts, doing all the things, but they're still serving their body a big slice of stress and shame every day, the spiking inflammation.

You have to look at these mental emotional things, which are a lot more nebulous, a lot more nonlinear and abstract because it's easy and prescriptive for me to say, Hey, have these foods. They've been shown to do X, Y, and Z don't have these. They've been shown to mess up your body in this way. It's cut and dried.

It is a lot more complex to unpack. Don't have that stress. Don't have that shame. It doesn't work like that. You have to really give people the tools, but then it takes time. It's never ending to really unpack these things. But the beautiful thing is you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have it all figured out.

You can start moving your biochemistry in a positive way in the here and now. And that's the brilliant part of this shameflammation topic is when you start bringing practices like self compassion, which I talk about in the book, the science around self compassion is powerful. People that practice self compassion have lower inflammation scores.

How do you practice self compassion? Well, we teach it, but it's just starting to talk to yourself like you would talk to a friend and start healing your relationship with yourself, which does not happen overnight, but it's powerful what the body can do when you just give it a little bit. of a reprieve from this constant inner voice that's judging and shaming and obsessing.

So there should be a grace and lightness to this topic. And I want to teach people how to do that. And we do it with telehealth patients, but I got to do it in book form with gut feelings. 

[00:37:17] Hala Taha: I love this. I feel like this is such important information. And one of my favorite quotes from your books is thoughts and emotions are like nutrients for your head, heart, and soul.

And unfortunately, many of us have been feeding ourselves junk food for a long, long time. So basically, we can think of thoughts and our feelings and these feelings of shame, which you've identified as like one of the worst feelings that we can have, which is why you labeled it shameful mation. the most negatively impactful to our health.

So my question is about that. Why is shame so much worse than the other emotions? 

[00:37:50] Will Cole: For some people, it may be the worst. And I think there's compelling research to show it's connected to so many spirals. I think it's hard for people to get their head above that proverbial water when they're struggling with shame.

They don't feel like they're worthy. And the statistics are clear. I mean, the majority of people are struggling with some level of unworthiness. Like they're not. worthy of making good decisions when it comes to their food. The analogy that I use in the book is like, look at how somebody with like a 1993, like beat up Chevy, how are they going to park their car and treat the car and wash their car and fuel their car versus like a high end Lamborghini or something like that?

How do we see ourselves? Most of us won't come out and say, I see myself like that old jalopy, but they, in effect, because of their programming growing up, because of decisions, because of some cumulative factors, that's how they see themselves, to varying degrees. And instead of it being behavior modification, which is some of that, of just showing up and doing something when you don't want to do it, yes, I get that, to a certain level, and just, your why has to be bigger than excuses, that's 100 percent the truth.

But, it's also paired with a paradigm shift on a perspective in which you see yourself. And when you see yourself as a worthy creation that's valuable and lovable and not inherently broken, and you're worthy of love and wellness, how does it inform the foods that you pick? How does it inform how you move your body?

How does it inform healthy boundaries? with other people, but also healthy boundaries with yourself. Healthy boundaries with foods that don't love you back. Healthy boundaries with alcohol that doesn't love you back. How is that going to impact your life? So it's that paradigm shift of what I call in the book, food peace.

But it's more than food peace. It's like healing your relationship with food in your body. It is profound. Because then it's not so much about gritting your teeth, And doing the next diet and being high willpower, that at all. It's about a natural ripple effect of knowing your worth. And like I say in the book is you can't heal a body you hate.

You cannot shame your way into wellness. You cannot obsess your way into health. You can try, but it's gonna be an uphill battle. It'll be a coasting of grace and lightness when you realize the intrinsic value you have. So that's the paradigm shift that I've seen be a big aha moment and a click for patients that I wanted to share with people in the book.

[00:40:23] Hala Taha: So smart. And it makes total sense. Once we are figuring out how to love ourselves, we'll treat our bodies a lot better, like our temple, right? So we've been talking a lot about this metaphysical food, thoughts, feelings. But how about real food? What should we be eating and what should we avoid to prevent things like inflammation and improve our gut brain health?

[00:40:48] Will Cole: There's things like self compassion and breath work and meditation and gratitude practice and the science around these things that can be a little like woo woo sounding. They have a lot of really concrete science around it and data around it. And I do, I call them metaphysical meals. We have to realize that it's not just about.

Well, we're feeding our body with breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Like, what are we feeding our head and our heart on a daily basis with these nebulous things that can seem like they're not big influencers, but they really are. And they'll influence the foods we pick, as I mentioned earlier. So the practical, the actual, um, physical side of breakfast, lunch, and dinner, which impacts our mood too.

Well, let's look at protein, fats, and carbs. I mean, every food is important. It's going to be a mixture of those macronutrients, and we need to optimize those macronutrients. I mentioned protein earlier, I mentioned healthy fats, carbs are another thing that shouldn't be feared. They're really helpful for gut microbiome diversity when you're talking about fiber rich fruits and vegetables.

If you have a stressed out gut, if you have digestive problems, try cooking them, as I mentioned, soups and stews, and getting your fiber rich vegetables that way, and even fruits. You can cook fruits down to like a compote, kind of like inside of a pie without the pie part, but don't be afraid of fiber rich whole foods that are carbs, i.

e. starchy vegetables, sweet potatoes, parsnips, yams, squashes, that kind of stuff, and fruits. So, those are all really good. What I want people to focus on is nutrient density, bioavailable nutrient density. And it's going to be a combination of those protein fats and carbs that I mentioned. I think that the foods that are most likely to be disruptive to most people's gut immune axis, impacting their microbiome mood axis, are going to be things like what I call the inflammatory core four.

And it's not a moral indictment. It's not that you're a bad person if somebody chooses to eat this. I want them to have informed consent, and to have informed consent on foods, you have to know both sides of it. And there's so much bio individuality with this topic, too. Some people can have some level of these and they're not going to notice any problem with it.

So, Number one would be gluten containing grains. You can get better for you versions of gluten, like sourdough bread is a good example of that, because the fermentation of the sourdough breaks down the gluten. So decreasing that epigenetic genetic mismatch, our ancestors would have soaked and sprouted these grains to make them more digestible.

And on top of that, what we sprayed on the grains, and that's like a different topic, but The grainer is what we've done to the grain. It's a multifaceted conversation. But looking at mainly wheat and its bleached, refined version of it, the modern Westerner is having. Number two would be industrial seed oils, things like vegetable oil, corn oil, soybean oil, canola oil.

These things are The modern Western diet is so pro excessive in omega 6. It's not that those things are inherently bad per se. There are better versions of organic or seed oils and things like that. But the modern Western diet, their polyunsaturated fatty acid ratios are so out of balance compared to human history.

So we're eating so much omega 6 and not enough of omega 3s. So I would say up your omega 3s, which are things like wild caught fish, fatty fish, grass fed beef. Unless, uh, those pro Omega 6 oils would be beneficial to the average American out there, you know, average Westerner. Next would be added sugar, which most people know that.

Being mindful of that, but even the nicer sounding euphemisms for sugar, like, look at the grams of added sugar on the label, things like agave nectar, it sounds so nice, it's like the green washing of sugar, because it's like they squeezed this agave and poured it in the cup for you, it's highly refined, it's higher in fructose, not that that's overtly like a demon, but it just should be limited and not have an excess, just because something's looking healthy on a label doesn't mean it.

You should be having copious amounts of it. And the fourth one would be conventional dairy, like regular milk. I'm a fan of dairy and its grass fed, organic, fermented versions of it, like kefirs and yogurts and cheeses. Especially cheap and goat cheeses, but also A2, grass fed A2. When you see A2 milk and A2 cheeses and things like that in the health food stores, what they're talking about is a subtype of casein, which is the dairy protein, beta A2 casein, which, that conversation of that epigenetic mismatch, our ancestors would have consumed dairy from A2 cows for thousands and thousands of years.

Well, most cows that people are drinking are all beta A1 casein. Again, that evolutionary mismatch. So it's triggering all these food sensitivities because we're not having what our microbiome has evolved with. So we have to go back to the OG casein, which is the A2 milk, and the fermenting makes it even better when it's cheeses and yogurts and kefir.

So those are some things to focus on.  

 [00:46:00] Hala Taha: It seems like the future is really this bio individuality that you were talking about. It's understanding that your body reacts to different foods differently. The way your brain works is different. Everything about your body is individual to you. So what is the first couple of things that we should do to understand our bio individuality?

[00:46:20] Will Cole: I would say labs. You can know as definitively as you can know and see data. And like I mentioned, that love of spreadsheets and see that data improve over time. So that way there's no ambiguity on, uh, I think it's working or. I mean, look, your intuition is first and foremost. You knowing your body and being empowered to know your body is first and foremost.

But your confidence in your body will enhance when you see numbers and then can correlate how you feel with the data. And I think it's the best of both subjective and objective information and feedback for yourself to be empowered to make decisions. So labs would be the first and foremost. If I had to tell the person what labs they should consider.

So they don't have to guess, would be a comprehensive metabolic panel, that's things like glucose, blood sugar, your fasting glucose, we want it under 90 in functional medicine, A1c, which is a three month average of your blood sugar, I want it under 5. 5, I want to look at liver enzymes like AST, ALT, the body's going to start storing glucose as high triglycerides, it's going to convert your blood sugar into circulating fat or triglycerides, we want to make sure triglycerides are not above 100.

And it's sort of the Paul Revere of metabolic disorders is triglycerides above 100 saying diabetes is coming if you don't do something about it and high liver enzymes AST and ALT, you'll see that spiked as well as fatty liver disease, a shocking 93 percent estimated 93 percent of the United States.

has a massive metabolic problem. They're somewhere on this insulin resistant inflammation spectrum. So, you can do something about it. You don't have to settle for that. And that doubles your risk of mental health issues and anxiety, depression, so many different things. So looking at your metabolic panel, looking at inflammation levels, the more like gold standard tests in science is high sensitivity C reactive protein.

The American Heart Association, the CDC have these ranges that we use too in functional medicine. We want HSCRP, this inflammation marker, to be under one. Homocysteine is an inflammatory marker, too. Research shows that even subtly high homocysteine levels is linked to increased blood brain barrier permeability or neuroinflammation.

Somebody can have leaky gut syndrome. Things are creating inflammation systemically because of their gut. They can have leaky brain syndrome, which is the general term for it, but it's increased blood brain barrier permeability. Again, empowering you. You can do something about it. You can reverse this. You can optimize it.

You don't have to settle for it. It's not a quick fix, but it's one thing your body is capable of so much healing capacity when you give it the chance to do so. So looking at homocysteine levels, looking at nutrients like iron deficiencies, I see it so commonly low, especially in women. And it's such an underlying cause of fatigue and depression and hair loss.

You want to make your ferritin. Your ferritin is stored iron. I want ferritin to be in the optimal zone. It's around 80 for women. I see serum iron and ferritin low all the time. And you can do something about it. But then ask, well, why is the iron low in the first place? Gut health could be a part of that.

Heavy bleeding with their period can be a part of that. So that could be hormonal amounts and we have to look at hormones. So those are some things to start with. Other nutrients, I just want to say real fast, would be magnesium. Magnesium deficiency is ubiquitous. Running a magnesium RBC test Your nervous system needs it.

Your mood needs it. Your brain needs this. Anybody that's looking for focus, cognitive performance, look at magnesium levels as well. And vitamin D. Let me mention vitamin D. Vitamin D 60 to 80. We want it on labs. A lot of people are deficient and then they'll talk to people like I'm supplementing or I'm outside all the time.

I live in sunny climate, Southern California, Miami. They're still deficient. You have to supplement the right dosage for you. And that's where labs come in. You're not overshooting or undershooting. You can target it based off of your number. 

[00:50:11] Hala Taha: You just gave so much information, obviously. A lot of us listening, or most of us I would say, are probably not functional medicine experts.

How does it work to work with a functional medicine expert? Is it through insurance? Do you just find them? How does that work? 

[00:50:28] Will Cole: As I mentioned, I started the first telehealth functional medicine clinic 14 years ago. So I basically don't leave this room for 10 hours a day for the past 14 years. They let me out to see my wife and kids occasionally, but we make sure functional medicine is accessible and affordable as possible.

So we have these amazing different ways that I can be there and not just me, but my team can be there for you all to democratize functional medicine, whether you want labs or want support and guidance or a protocol for you or a supplement recommendations, whatever. So all that's at drwillcool. com. Just go to the become a patient consultation page and there's five or six different ways are there for people.

Some very accessible and affordable and some concierge, higher end stuff if people want that one at one time and everything in between so people can decide for themselves. My goal and my heart and my passion is to get functional medicine as accessible and affordable to people and meet them where they're at.

for what we do, you can check that out. Functionalmedicine. org is another great resource. All the physicians that train through IFM are on that directory and that's what the Cleveland Clinic's Functional Medicine Center, they're all trained through IFM and that's who's trained me and who's trained my team.

So, if you want someone in your own town and not in telehealth, then go to functionalmedicine. org. 

[00:51:45] Hala Taha: Perfect. So, a couple more questions here, then we're going to close us out. I do want to talk about how we can improve. Give some TLC to our heart and emotional well being. And I thought we could do like a fun quick fire style.

You listed five things in your book. I'm going to rattle them off and then just give us a quick elaboration on it. So the first one is slow down and embrace the joy of missing out. 

[00:52:11] Will Cole: Well, I mentioned the FOMO inducing content on social media, that whole section on JOMO, which is the joy of missing out, it's the antithesis, the antidote.

to FOMO culture, I talk about practices like Hugo, which is used in Scandinavian cultures where it's unplugging, it's cozying up to a good book under a weighted blanket, some self care and done in really intentional ways, which is so medicinal to the body. So I teach a lot of practical science backed ways to bring more JOMO into your life, which is powerful medicine, powerful medicine.

You can have great supplements and food, It's just some quiet and stillness is very therapeutic to the body. 

[00:52:54] Hala Taha: The second one is allow self compassion to flourish. 

[00:52:58] Will Cole: Yeah, so that's me talking about the science of self compassion and teaching how to practice self compassion. It's the antidote to shameflammation.

It's a way to calm inflammation in a way that doesn't involve expensive biohacking therapies or going to organic food. expensive supplement. It's just like, how can you go inward to shift your biochemistry? And these terms like self compassion can be very abstract, but I teach how to do it really practically in the book.

[00:53:29] Hala Taha: Slow down and reconnect with your gut feelings. 

[00:53:33] Will Cole: Yeah. I mean, that is just in general, we have this hustle culture, right? Where burnout is a badge of honor and more is always better. Sometimes. Rest is the most productive thing we can do. Sometimes saying no and unplugging you're going to be the best version of yourself come Monday.

And we think, well, burning ourselves out all weekend long to be, no, you're going to burn out. And if you don't give your body some rest, if you don't take the cue from your body, your body is going to choose a time for you. And that's a message. from somebody that sees that all the time. People that think that they're a robot and they're not a robot, and they need to realize that burnout is a real thing and you have to pause and rest and find these acts of stillness to calm that sympathetic for a little bit, increase that parasympathetic for a little bit.

So you can be the most effective. High performing entrepreneur you can be. 

[00:54:31] Hala Taha: The next one is really personal to me because I feel like I'm really good at all the other stuff, but this one is really when I should work on healthy boundaries and healthy social connections. 

[00:54:41] Will Cole: We're living in a weird time, right?

Social media, I mean, this is not a human thing, predating social media. I think social media amplify all this stuff, and we say things, people say things on social media they would never say to your face. So it's just a call for all of us to like, look at how we're interacting with people. What's the information we're taking in?

What is the highlight reel we're looking at? And we're so flippant with our words sometimes on social media, especially. So I talk a lot about relationship with technology and what that looks like to cultivate that Jomo lifestyle that I mentioned earlier. The ultimate relationship that you need to be mindful of when it comes to healthy boundaries is healthy boundaries with yourself.

Back to that earlier statement I said around food and even alcohol, which the core four, I mentioned the food part, but the plus one to the core four would be alcohol and people's relationship with that. That's a bigger topic. But I think looking at healthy boundaries when it comes to your relationship with yourself and what you are entertaining as fun or enjoyment or a pastime, really take a hard look on does it love you back or not?

And avoiding things, whether it be food, whether it be drinks, whether it be relationships, avoiding something that doesn't love you back isn't restrictive. It's not punitive, it's self respect, and continuing to eat foods, continuing to drink things, continuing to entertain relationships that don't love you back, continually, and wondering why you're still miserable.

It's like, it's like staying in a toxic relationship and wondering why you're still miserable. You have to realize that your relationship with yourself will dictate all the things you allow into your life. 

[00:56:23] Hala Taha: And what a great way I feel like to close out this conversation. Well, this has been such an excellent interview.

I really enjoyed it. I end my show with two questions that I ask all my guests. The first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow? 

[00:56:39] Will Cole: I would say find your why. I mentioned earlier, let your why be bigger than your excuses. We make time for things that are important to us.

And I see people all the time make excuses. I, you know, I'm too busy to prioritize my health. I can't do it for this, this, and this. I see single moms that are horribly sick. with autoimmune conditions reclaim their health. And I see people with all the excuses in the book reclaim their health. And then you see people that have everything, and they make all the excuses.

And the commonality is not, I have it all, perfect. If you're waiting for the right time, it's now, I guess would be a way of putting it. If you're waiting for the right time, it's now. 'cause there's always gonna be another holiday or vacation or deadline for you to put off you. For you to be the best entrepreneur you need to have your health.

And I see people kept back from living the life and achieving the things they were called for and they have the talent for, but they're kept back because of health issues. You have to prioritize. It's like cliche. It's like the greatest wealth is health. 

[00:57:44] Hala Taha: It's so true. And I see a lot of entrepreneurs in the beginning.

It does take a lot of time to get your company off the ground, but if you want to take it to the next level. That's where I'm at. It's been like four years of being an entrepreneur. Now I'm like, how do I improve myself? How do I improve my mental health, my physical health? That's how you get to the actual next level.

So I'm focusing on that. Okay. My last question, and this can go beyond what we talked about today. What is your secret to profiting in life? 

[00:58:11] Will Cole: This is one thing that serves me well, that I think would be good. No matter what space you're in is seeing every interaction as a divine appointment. That person that you think isn't going to quote unquote serve you, we think of just constantly what these relationships are transactional in your day, but instead of seeing that as not how big or how small that person may be to you and your career or what you can get out of it, but just think, even you.

Meeting the mailman, or the mail person that comes in, like, how are you going to treat them? How can you see every interaction you have, even if it's the person passing you in the street, as a divine intervention, what is brought to you in that moment, that you can maybe shed some light in their life?

We're all part of the same ecosystem, so when you start living like that, the mundane can become magical, and life is so much more enjoyable, but things that you may have shut yourself out from because you're so focused on the future instead of the here and now, you'll start a lot more magic and synchronicity and synergy will happen when you root yourself in the present moment, and that starts with how we treat ourselves, but also other people.

[00:59:14] Hala Taha: Oh my gosh. I love that so much. Will, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do? 

[00:59:21] Will Cole: Everything is at DrWillCole. com. I have a podcast. It's called The Art of Being Well, where we talk about all this stuff. Instagram at DrWillCole. All those places that people are at. 

[00:59:32] Hala Taha: Amazing. I'll stick all of those links in the show notes.

And thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast. 

[00:59:38] Will Cole: Thank you. 

[00:59:38] Hala Taha: The rise of loneliness, depression, and anxiety in recent years stems from a number of factors, and one of those factors could very well live deep inside of us, in our gut. As Dr. Will pointed out, new research is revealing the many surprising ways that our guts can impact our overall mental and physical health.

Our gut and our brain are formed from the same fetal tissue in the womb. And the two remain linked for the rest of our lives. Key neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, which are essential to our mental health, are largely made in the gut. So it's no coincidence that to understand mental health, You have to also understand the gut.

The problem is that our modern lives are rather divorced from the environments that our guts evolved in. Diets lacking fiber and rich in processed foods can disrupt our gut's microbiome. The balance of bacteria in our digestive system. Toxins in the water we drink and the air we breathe can also wreak havoc.

Our own past experiences and trauma can also impact our gut health. A phenomenon Dr. Will calls shameflammation. We carry unresolved stress with us. And it can continue to impact how we sleep, eat, and function. The higher your shame and stress levels, the higher your inflammation. This can lead to shame spirals, something Will especially says is common amongst entrepreneurs.

But the good news is that we have a lot of agency when it comes to our gut health and our gut brain relationship. You can do something about it. You can eat a diet rich in protein, healthy fat, and fiber. But don't you forget, you can eat all the healthiest foods in the world, but your thoughts and emotions are like nutrients for your head.

And having shame and chronic stress is the ultimate junk food. So treat yourself well, take measures to resolve and unpack any shame or traumas that you have, and feed yourself the metaphysical meals that Will spoke about. As entrepreneurs, we often get so busy on other things that we forget to take care of ourselves.

But if you really want to take your business to the next level, you've got to get serious about your own mental and physical health first. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting podcast. If you listen, learned and profited from this conversation with Dr. Will Cole, then why don't you trust your own gut and tell somebody about it.

Just hit that share button and text a link to this episode to somebody who you think could benefit from it. And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then please drop us a five star review on Apple podcasts. If you prefer to watch your podcast as videos, you can find all of our content on YouTube.

Just look up Young and Profiting. And if you want to find me on social media, you can at Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn. Search for my name. It's Hala Taha. Thank you so much to my incredible Yap team. You guys are awesome. Thanks for all that you do behind the scenes. This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the podcast princess signing off.