[00:00:00] Hala Taha: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. If you guys have been following Yap for a while, you probably know that my two favorite topics to discuss are sales and human behavior. Those are my all time two favorite topics. And today we get to talk about both of them. So I'm super pumped for this show. We invited on Jeremy Miner.

He's America's number one sales expert. He's the founder and chairman of Seventh Level, a global sales training company. And he's also the author of the new book, The New Model of Selling. Jeremy knows everything about sales. We're going to talk about the importance of listening, how to ask the right questions.

We're going to talk about social media and the importance of that, how to have neutral language, how to make sure we have good tonality and so many more things. So happy he's finally on the show to share some of his wisdom. I'm sure this won't be the last time we hear from him. So without further ado, Jeremy, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

Thanks for having me on. 

So Jeremy, I want to get right into it. I love sales. I love human behavior. It's some of my favorite topics to talk about. And you are a true expert when it comes to those things. I was telling you offline that I've been following you on Instagram for a while.

And like, I just love to hear all of your content. So I want to start here. A lot of our listeners are in their twenties or thirties. They're young entrepreneurs. And I know that when you were in your twenties, you actually were struggling with your sales. You weren't this natural salesperson. You had to learn to become a good salesperson.

[00:02:38] Jeremy Lee Miner: If you're watching us or listening to us right now, In the comments, type in if you were born out of your mother's womb with advanced questioning skills. Nobody, right? 

Type in the comments section if you were born out of your mother's womb with advanced tonality skills. Nobody. Or if you were born with advanced objection handling and prevention skills.

See, those are skills that nobody's born with. Those are skills that we have to learn, we have to acquire. So anytime As you know, somebody says, Oh, that person's a natural born salesperson. It's like, well, did they have blood work done? It's like the DNA, like scientifics, like somehow the blood type a negative or whatever, is there a natural born closer?

Like that's just a myth. Like sales is a learned acquired skill. I grew up, you know, on a cattle ranch in the middle of Missouri, outside of a town, less than 800 people can acquire those skills. What does it mean to you watching us on what you can do, even if you're already doing well, you can always acquire.

Higher level of skills to get to a different level. That's what we're going to talk about. 

[00:03:39] Hala Taha: And I know that you say that sales is not rocket science. It's neuroscience. And I know you love learning about human behavior. You studied it in school. So talk to us about why it's actually neuroscience. 

[00:03:51] Jeremy Lee Miner: Because.

Every decision you make as a human being, let's just start here with some basic stuff. Every decision you make as a human being starts with your emotional side of your brain, and you justify logic. We all heard that human beings make decisions emotionally, they justify logic, but then no one ever teaches us how.

It's a theory, but that's what I wanted to come in and do in the market was like, here's how, and here's why. Not only how, but you have to understand why, the psychology behind it, because You know, I feel like a drink of water right now because I'm thirsty. I feel like my emotional side of my brain starts to make that decision.

Then I just about logic because I'm thirsty, right? So every decision you make is even being starts with your emotional side of your brain. You can not make a decision with your logical side of your brain. It just goes against the data and science. So what I wanted to figure out when I was in college and I got my first sales job when I was 21 selling home security systems door to door is I quickly found out.

That the script the company gave me and the books that they had me read from the sales gurus that 95 percent of the people when I started like, Hi, my name is Jeremy. Are you the homeowner? Hey, how you doing today, sir? Uh, the reason why I'm out here was not interested. Oh, we don't need it. We already talked with somebody.

It's like I was triggering fight or flight mode. And what we call their survival part of their brain simply by using words that they're already familiar with that every salesperson that's ever sold something uses and the same tonality. So I had to learn very quickly how to interrupt that pattern by changing my tone.

And triggering curiosity in their brain rather than triggering fight or flight mode. 

[00:05:33] Hala Taha: I love that. I know that we have limited time today, so I want to just dive straight into all your tips from your new book. You've got a new book called The New Model of Selling, Selling to an Unsellable Generation. You co wrote it with Jerry Acuff.

So I want to know, how is this an unsellable generation? Why have they lost trust? How are sales even different from 2020, which wasn't that long ago? What do we need to know about these new prospects? 

[00:05:58] Jeremy Lee Miner: Well, what we need to understand is that human behavior is the same as tens of thousands of years ago, the way your brain reacts and response.

However, In our society, there are different things that influence your brain compared to even 10 or 15 years ago, to 30 years ago, to 100, and to 500 years ago, right? Think about as a society, how we are sold and marketed to all of the time. And a lot of times when I say this at a keynote or virtual training or something like, Oh, I'm not sold all the time.

Like I only talked to salespeople once a week. I'm like, Oh, really? Cause when you wake up in the morning, besides using the restroom, possibly, what's the first thing you do to you get on your phone, start scrolling through your social media and you see, and hear what ads trying to sell you something immediately happens when you wake up in the morning, right?

You walk into your kitchen, you get maybe some coffee, you turn on the TV, and you see what? Commercials trying to sell you something. You then get in your car, maybe you go to work, or maybe you're on the train, or you go to the gym, and you turn on the radio, and you hear what? Ads trying to sell you something.

You drive down the road, you see these signs, the billboards, trying to sell you something. You get to the office, you get back on social media, you see your aunt pitching her latest, greatest MLM opportunity. So you're always being sold to all the time. So because of that, as a society, we have built up defensive mechanisms in our brain that anytime we feel someone is trying to sell us something, we immediately do what, you know, surface level salesperson trying to sell me something.

And we give vague generalized surface level answers. Because the prospects are used to your script, they already know what you're trying to do. I have to change that, I have to pattern interrupt, I have to change that script to something they are not used to. 

[00:07:45] Hala Taha: So you say that there's a new model of selling.

Can you just compare and contrast, how is your new model of selling different than the old traditional ways that people sell? 

[00:07:54] Jeremy Lee Miner: When I say new model, I believe that this model has always been there, but I believe that most people don't understand it. They might have used it, but they don't know why it worked, if that makes sense.

Because you know, when I was in school studying behavioral science, I specialize in behavioral science, human psychology, and what's called social dynamics. So in social dynamics, it's the study of how you're viewed in society. How are you viewed? What is your status or your rank in society? Now, You know as well as I do right now, what are the three things that would cause you to view somebody at a very high status in society in general?

Right now? How many social media followers you have would be one. Yeah, right. Money. Number two, money, wealth, and number three, fame. Anybody that has even one or two of those or all three you view at a higher status, Now a thousand years ago though different maybe i'm living in the polynesian islands How would my status be viewed then?

What would be viewed based on your tribal tattoos on your arms your arm sleeves, right? And that society would tell you the other person how to rank you In that society what your status is viewed like, right? You So what we have to learn is let's say if I'm a financial advisor and I only make three or 400 grand a year, whatever, I'm learning how to get into the industry of making more money.

But let's say I'm talking to somebody that has a net worth of 500 million. You don't have a network of 500 million. So how are they going to view you at a higher status than themselves? Financially, Ah, well that requires we have to learn better questions that trigger curiosity and internally get the prospect to view us differently.

We also have to learn how to use our tonality to get them to let their guard down. That is called situational status, where in that situation, they view you at a much higher status than themselves with what you're focused in talking about, if that makes sense. So I'll give you a brief breakdown. There's three modes of communication according to like behavioral science.

The first mode and listen, this is important to all of you watching and listening to us. Okay. Write this down. Even if you're already doing well, it'll be a game changer for you. The first mode is more like a boiler room selling. Like if I told you what's the first image that comes to your mind when I say boiler room selling.

What would be the first image that just came to your mind? 

[00:10:19] Hala Taha: Really serious people, like, in a room, concentrating. 

[00:10:23] Jeremy Lee Miner: Have you ever seen that movie Wolf on Wall Street? 

[00:10:25] Hala Taha: Mm hmm. 

[00:10:26] Jeremy Lee Miner: Or like, Gordon Gekko. The salespeople are in that. You know the rooms and they're like pounding the phones all the time. Yeah. Typically the image that most people tell me.

So that's kind of the first mode of selling. I won't give you guys the scientific term for it. It bore everybody to death. But that mode is all about posturing. It's about pushing. It's about pressuring. It's about Manipulating to get what you want over what the prospect wants and prospects pick up on that, right?

That's why selling is a numbers game because of the way we're taught to sell and communicate triggers the prospect to try to protect themselves, right? Cause nobody likes to be manipulated, push or pressure. That's the first one. It's like, if you, let's say you're dating somebody. And you tell them like, Hey, you really, really need to do something and you keep pushing and pressuring.

What do they typically do back? 

[00:11:13] Hala Taha: They reject it. 

[00:11:14] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. They push back, right? Just human behavior. One on one. That's the first mode. Second mode is more, and I'll just do this brief is what's known as consultative selling came out in the late seventies, eighties methodologies like Sandler Institute, uh, spin selling.

Neil Rackham college professor never really sold anything, but they taught that you needed to ask logical based questions to find the needs of the client, which was revolutionary compared to boiler room selling all the way back in the eighties. But the problem is when we ask logical based questions, we call those surface level questions.

What type of answers are our prospects going to give us? Surface level, logical based answers. And remember, we came back to human beings make buying decisions on emotion or logic. So we're starting to play the numbers game because we're not bringing very much emotion out by simply asking surface level questions.

Because when we ask vague, generalized questions. What type of answers do our prospects typically give us? 

[00:12:11] Hala Taha: Vague, generalized, 

[00:12:13] Jeremy Lee Miner: surface level answers, right? Unless they're a lay down sale. And then we all wonder why we get so many objections at the end. It's because we haven't learned yet how to get them to emotionally open up and trust us to tell us what's really going on.

The real problems and concerns. That's the second mode. The third mode, Is more known as dialogue when we ask what we call neuro emotional persuasion questioning now the question is, how do you get a human being to persuade themselves? How do you get them to do all the work? Selling themselves. Whereas most sales, we've been trained that you got to do all the work.

You got to do all the selling. How do you get them to overcome their own objections rather than you trying to overcome them? How do you get them to pull you in rather than push and pressuring? And when I was in school, I studied two main people to really understand the art of communication. And we have very limited writings on these two people.

One of them was Socrates. If you've ever heard of Socrates, Socratic method, I studied that in school. The second one was Jesus Christ himself. Okay? And with the limited writings we have of Christ, you know, from the New Testament and other stuff that they found, you're going to notice that they asked easy to answer questions that allowed their quote unquote prospects or audience to internalize and think deep about their problems.

And then they started asking questions that got them to focus on what the future would look like once those problems were solved, almost future state, right? So that's where the methodology comes from, NEPQ, from behavioral science, human psychology, social dynamics. So a lot more than just those two people obviously had to study to come up with that and had to use it in the real world trenches to make sure it worked.

 There's so much to dig in on this. I think I want to start with the words that we choose in our sales conversations. The words that we say are so important. What are some of the things that we should not say in a sales conversation? Okay. 

[00:14:21] Jeremy Lee Miner: Well, we don't want to use words that lower our status in the prospect's mind, that where they view you as, Oh, she's a salesperson, you know, got to protect myself.

So let's say, I'll just give you a few random examples. Let's say that we've all seen these emails from vendors that maybe talk to us. And we didn't buy from them. You probably had vendors you talked to, you decided wasn't the best fit. And then you get an email a month or two later that says, Hey, Holla, just following up with you or just circling back or just checking in on X, Y, Z.

And they write you this three or four paragraph after that. How many sentences of that did you actually read? 

[00:15:02] Hala Taha: The first sentence? 

[00:15:03] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. Because when you saw the word just following up, just checking in, just circling back, immediately what came to your brain? 

[00:15:11] Hala Taha: Sales. 

[00:15:13] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah, because you hear that all the time.

So your brain instantly, your survival part of your brain, a lot of people call it the reptilian part of the brain, is like, oh, defensive mode. I know the script. It's a salesperson trying to sell me. I'm not going to read the rest. So instead, let's say that one of your reps talked to a company and for whatever reason, they didn't go with them.

Let's say they had a first meeting discovery call. They scheduled a second meeting a week later and the company ghosted, right? Happened once in a while. Most salespeople would start emailing frantically, texting three times a day, calling three times a day, just following up. There's some validity to that depending on the words we use.

I wouldn't want to do that three or four times a day, because it makes you look needy and desperate because. Experts aren't needing desperate, right? But we can't ignore them. So let's say that you leave two or three voicemails, you leave two or three emails, they don't respond at all. What's your next step.

Okay. You're going to type an email and you're simply going to use the words i'm about to share with everybody Now here's my suggestion copy the words. I give you word for word. Do not add any words Do not take out any words. There's a reason why this works you start changing around and fluffing it up.

It doesn't work You're simply gonna write in the email. Hey, john, or whoever there's hey, john Uh tried to reach you a few times in the last few weeks, but we didn't hear back from you You Dot dot dot. So try to reach you a few times left a few messages in the last few weeks or last week, whatever you want to say, but we didn't hear back dot, dot, dot.

You're going to scroll down two lines. Cause you don't want to have a big paragraph that nobody wants to read. And you're going to say, how should we proceed from here? Or where should we go from here? I put, where should we go from here? Question mark. That's it. Don't say, I really look forward to your response, or I really look forward to working with you because over at XYZ, we're the number one brand, and wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, like sales.

Simply say, Hey John, tried to reach you a few times and left a few voicemails last week, comma, but we didn't hear back from you, dot, dot, dot, scroll down two lines. Where should we go from here? That's it. You will be shocked how quickly they respond back. Okay. They did ignore it. All your long emails and texts and long voicemails.

Okay. You're going to notice how quickly, Oh, Hey, you know, Holly, just been busy. You know, the company we're ready to go, or Hey, just been busy. My mom went to the nursing home or, Oh my gosh, because it's like, you're getting rid of them. There's even more emails after that. Like they don't. Rarely, like maybe 25 percent of the people won't respond to that point.

Now, if you're like a hardcore high pressure salespeople that builds no gap in that first conversation, is that email going to work as well? Probably not because you scared the crap out of them. They don't want to even talk to you. If they still don't respond to that email, I might wait four or five days because I don't want to email them again the next day.

That's going to be weird. I'm gonna wait four or five days. I'm going to say, Hey, John sent you a couple of emails you had mentioned the other day. Let's just use your example for marketing. You were wanting to really grow your podcast to book an extra 500 sales calls a month and get up to about 10 million in revenue this year, dot, dot, dot, dot.

Then you scroll down two lines. Did you give up on scaling or what actually happened? Question mark. Did you give up on blank, whatever they said they wanted? Or what actually happened? Question mark. And then most of the people didn't respond to that last email. They're like, Oh, because you're like, did you give up on any repeat back what they said they wanted?

It's hard for them to ignore that. 

[00:18:48] Hala Taha: Yeah. And it's a no oriented question. They're not used to that. So they're going to be like, no, no, no, I am, Going to do that. I need to do that. Right. So it's, it's kind of switches it on them. 

[00:18:58] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. You're getting it. It's like my good friend, Chris Voss. I was just, you know, it was just texting him.

[00:19:02] Hala Taha: He's been on five times. So I know his material really well. 

[00:19:05] Jeremy Lee Miner: We're just texting the other day. He's looking for like a VP of sales. We were texting like some different ideas, but it's exactly what he says. You're interrupting the pattern that they're used to because they're used to salespeople forcing them with these yes questions.

And so even if they say yes or yeah, internally, they're thinking what, Oh, they're trying to manipulate me to get me to say yes. Like everybody knows that script. You're right. You figure this out. We're interrupting that script. We're pattern interrupting them. That's what we would call that by getting them to say no.

That actually leads to the S are you going to let them, let's say you're doing political fundraising. Are you going to let them win the white house this year? No, I'm not then donate here. So it's like getting them to know that leads to the S are you completely against X, Y, Z, would it be completely unrealistic for us to consider?

Would it be completely impossible if we did, you know? So it's just like you said, getting them to say no leads to that. Yes. 

[00:20:03] Hala Taha: They feel more in control, they feel like they're making their own decision, they came up with it themselves. 

[00:20:08] Jeremy Lee Miner: Safer. 

[00:20:09] Hala Taha: Yes. Okay, so let's talk about in the actual conversation, you talk to us how pressuring is no good.

Talk to us about hard language and soft, neutral language and how we need to be more soft and give us examples of that, please. 

[00:20:21] Jeremy Lee Miner: Well, you want to be soft, but you know, a lot of people are like, oh, NEPQ is too soft. Those are people that have never gone through any of our training. They just see a few results.

It's too soft. Well, it's actually pretty hardcore because the prospect doesn't feel like they're ever being sold to. They feel like it's their own idea. So it's actually very hardcore because you actually sell way more. Being soft is being hard pressure, high pressure, and you don't sell that much. That means you're soft.

That means your commission checks are tiny. In sales when I was in the trenches, it's like, uh, I don't know if you ever watched the NFL. I mean, you are in New York. Are you a Jets or Giants fan? 

[00:20:56] Hala Taha: I guess Jets, if I had to be. Okay. 

[00:20:58] Jeremy Lee Miner: All right. I'll forgive you. No, I'm kidding. 

[00:21:00] Hala Taha: I know they suck, 

[00:21:00] Jeremy Lee Miner: right? I'm a big Aaron Rodgers fan.

So I, I like players. So Aaron Rodgers go there like, go Jets, you know, before I'm like, Jets suck, go Jets. Okay. So it's the same thing because we're interrupting that pattern that we talked about a second ago, but we're changing the lingo. Okay. We're changing the script that they're used to. So going back, let's say I get on a sales call.

Let's just stay in your industry. You get probably a lot of inbound leads that book on maybe zoom. Right? So when you get on there, a lot of salespeople have been taught to use some type of frame, which I agree, but I need to. Neutralize the language in there. Cause a lot of salespeople say something like this or variation, they've been taught this and they say, Hey, you know, this is like the third question, like, Hey, the way this call is going to work.

Or the way this call is going to go. So they're forcing themselves on me. So the way this call is going to go is I'm going to ask you a few questions. You can ask me a few questions and then towards the end, if you feel we're a good fit for you and I feel you're a good fit for us, we'll show you how to get started.

Fair enough. A lot of people, if they're A types, some A types would be like, well, yeah, but I'm not ready to buy. I didn't say I'm ready to buy, but I'm just still looking. Instantly resistance comes up. Now you're competing against that resistance. The rest of the conversation. Most of the time, you're not going to get that deal because you've automatically triggered now for the other people like, Oh yeah, sure.

They agree with you, but then internally, what are they thinking? The rest of the time you're asking questions. 

[00:22:29] Hala Taha: This person's telling to me, I need to be aware. 

[00:22:31] Jeremy Lee Miner: I need to be careful. I'm not going to open up. I'm going to stay surface level. So when you ask a question like, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah. They're just very vague, very generalized. And then at the end you still get what? I want to think it over. I want to talk to this person. I need to talk with my CPA. I need to talk to my financial advisor. I need to talk with my uncle who lives in a van down by the river, right? They always give you these excuses, even though you thought you logically trapped them into a green.

To a yes or no at the end. Guess what? At the end of the day, they can still say no, they can make that decision. So I'm going to neutralize that. I'm going to do the same thing because nobody believes you're going to get to the end of a conversation and you're like, I'm ready to buy, here's my credit card or send me the invoice.

I'm ready to wire. And you're like, nope, so sorry. You're not a good fit for me. I'll be, you know, we're not going to take the payment. Like nobody believes that stuff, even if it's a real deal in your company, people don't believe in it because. They know most salespeople are full of BS when they say it. So I'm going to get on there.

And after a couple of connection questions, what we call them, I'm like, okay, yeah, in this first call, it's pretty basic. So let's say, do you guys do a one call close or two call close with what you do? 

[00:23:32] Hala Taha: Usually it's one call and I send a proposal after and close it. 

[00:23:37] Jeremy Lee Miner: Okay. 

[00:23:38] Hala Taha: Like the pricing after you. So 

[00:23:40] Jeremy Lee Miner: do you go over the proposal with them or just email it?

[00:23:42] Hala Taha: I just usually email it. 

[00:23:44] Jeremy Lee Miner: Ooh, could be trouble for you. 

[00:23:46] Hala Taha: We're doing, we have like a wait list of clients. 

[00:23:48] Jeremy Lee Miner: I know, but I might tell you how to pull that up on zoom. Cause when you just email it to them. 

[00:23:54] Hala Taha: It depends. It just really depends. Honestly, I give them like a hint that we're expensive. I let them know ballpark.

And then I'm like, okay, based on what you need, I'm going to price it out and let you know. So I give them like a ballpark. And let them know it's going to be expensive and kind of set the stage. 

[00:24:11] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. Cause we would show you how to get on zoom with them, go over the proposal with them so they can see, Oh, I'm paying this for this rather than trying to interpret what you wrote.

 Sometimes people miss the difference. They're just. And then they have an objection and now your, your team's not there to help them overcome it. If I'm going through the proposal with them virtually or in person and they have a concern, now I'm there to help them overcome it. And that will make your waiting list instead of one or two months, six months.

So there you go. You're welcome. So going back to the thing. So I might get on there and after a couple of connection questions, I'm like, yeah, this first. Part of this call, it's pretty basic. So I'm downplaying it. Now, why would I downplay it? Why not upplay it? Why not be like, this is going to be exciting call.

We're going to go through a ZZ, make it all exciting because in behavioral science, the way your brain works is that in a sales situation, when a sales person upplay something, what do most prospects do? They downplay 

[00:25:05] Hala Taha: it. 

[00:25:06] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. They downplay it. If you're like, you're going to save 27 percent on this car insurance policy.

Well, I mean, I'm only paying 27 a month, I mean, that's not that much money. But if I'm like, you're not going to save that much, it's only going to be like 27, 28%. Are you kidding me? A penny saved is a penny earned, my mama said. So it's like, if I downplay it in a sales situation and make it seem like it's not a big deal, prospects in their brain upplay it, and vice versa.

In behavioral science, it's called mismatching. So I'm going to go in there, yeah, the first part of this call, it's pretty basic. See, I'm saying that because I want them to let their guard down. It's pretty basic. It's really more for us to find out. Let's go with your industry more about what you're doing to generate new leads and clients now, and kind of maybe the results you're getting from that compared to maybe where you're wanting those to be, to kind of see what that gap looks like.

And what did I just do that? Few things. First part it's called. It's pretty basic. I'm downplaying it. Okay. I wanted them to let their guard down. It's really more for us, not me. Us, right. Collaborating us. It's more for us to find out kind of what you're doing now to generate new leads and clients. Look at my hand here.

Results you're getting from that. I don't want to say the results you're getting from that appear. I'm going to say the results you're getting from that. See how I make it seem like it's not that great. 

[00:26:20] Hala Taha: The results 

[00:26:21] Jeremy Lee Miner: you're getting from that compared to maybe where you're wanting those to be. Now, visually, what did I just create in their brain?

[00:26:26] Hala Taha: A gap, 

[00:26:27] Jeremy Lee Miner: a gap just by my hands. But if I'm like, kind of, you know, the results you're getting now for compared to maybe you're wanting them to be. There's no visual gap. I have to be concise. The results, maybe you're getting now from that compared to maybe where you're wanting them to be. Notice I said, maybe wanting them to be, see, I neutralize that rather than saying compared to where you want them to be, that's more sumptive.

Now I want to be more sumptive later on in the conversation after I built more trust in a gap, but how much trust and credibility do I have? With the average prospect in the first two minutes of a sales call. 

[00:27:00] Hala Taha: Very little, 

[00:27:01] Jeremy Lee Miner: even if they follow me or like as an influencer, they know a bit about you. I've got some credibility.

But if I get too assumptive, too quick, especially A types, business owners will push back. Okay. I didn't say I'm ready to buy. I'm just looking around. I'm just kind of doing some research. So then I'm going to say, compared to maybe where you're wanting them to be, to see what that gap looks like. So I'm still going what that gap looks like.

And then towards the end of the call, if you feel like, Hey, this might be what you're looking for. We can talk about possible next steps. Would that help you? If you feel that it might be, say I'm neutral, might be what you're looking for. We can talk about possible, neutral, possible next steps. No one will ever say, no, we cannot talk about possible next steps because I neutralize that whole thing.

You'll never have sales resistance by just changing out a few words might be possible. Those type of words. Now you can't repeat them a hundred times in a conversation. I have to use others. Could be. Now, as I get more into that conversation, build a bigger gap. I become more assumptive because I have more credibility at that point.

Does that make a difference there? 

[00:28:08] Hala Taha: Yeah, so good. So I teach LinkedIn sales and I talk about this in the DMs. You've got to do the same thing. You can't be like, I know you're going to like this. You can be like, well, you seem like you might like something like this. And to your point, yeah. 

[00:28:21] Jeremy Lee Miner: So they become more open when you're willing to, I mean, you know, after the conversation, we might find that you're better off just staying with who you already have.

See, when I say things like that at the beginning, okay. I don't want to say that at the end, but when I say things like the beginning, or especially at the DMS, they become more open because they feel like I'm more in it for them, just me. I'm more trustworthy because I'm an expert because only experts would make that type of statement because needy salespeople would always say, I know you're going to like this because they're needy.

They're not experts or amateurs. So if I want to raise my status in the prospect's brain, I have to be detached. Not in a way like, Oh, you shouldn't do this. This is horrible. But more neutral, like, you know, at the end of the call, we might find that maybe you're better off staying with who you already have.

Now, are you going to be angry at me if I tell you that to you at the end of the call? No, I would never get angry with you. See what I just did there. Now, are you going to get angry with me at the end of this? If we find we can't even do anything for you? No, I would never get angry with you. Now, what did I just do there?

That's just a disarming technique to get them to come to my aid. Now, are you going to be angry at me? If we can't help you at the end of this, no. Gosh, I would never be angry at you. They're never gonna be like, yes, I'm gonna be angry at you. 

[00:29:33] Hala Taha: Yeah. . Yeah. 

[00:29:35] Jeremy Lee Miner: By pushing them away to get them to pull me in. 

[00:29:38] Hala Taha: Mm. 

[00:29:39] Jeremy Lee Miner: See what we're talking about.

[00:29:39] Hala Taha: Yes. Okay. I wanna talk about two more things. open, listening, something that you talk about. And I also wanna talk about asking the right questions. I think these are two really important things to do in our sales conversations. 

[00:29:51] Jeremy Lee Miner: Well, I think with listening, I think most salespeople might not understand what I mean by active listening, because in my mind, active listening is listening to what the prospect means, not just 

what they say.

Those are two very different things. Everybody write this down. This is important right now. Listening to what the prospect means, not just what they say, that's a big difference. Because let's say if I'm. Asking a closing question at the end of that conversation or conversations. I'm asking a commitment question and I might say, do you feel like this could be the answer for you and the prospects that Oh, for sure.

No, definitely for sure. What I hear them mean is, yeah, they're in. But let's say if I ask that same question like, yeah, yeah, I could see how it could work. Now, most of us would be like, great, let me show you how to get started. But I'm listening to what they mean by their tone. And what I just heard is they have uncertainty.

What I just heard, if I try to close in right at that point, they're going to give me some type of an objection most of the time. So I'm going to lean in and say, you didn't seem so sure when I asked you that question. What's going on? You can tell. It's off the record. I won't post it on your social media.

What's really going on? And I lower my tone into a concern tone, a tone that shows empathy. Now, when I have a concern tone in that context, the prospect feels what? But I'm generally concerned for them. So they trust me more and they open up more. See, I'm listening to what they mean with their tone, not just what they said.

See the difference? 

[00:31:29] Hala Taha: I know that we need to get people to make their own decisions. We need to act like a problem solver. What are the right questions to ask in these sales calls? 

[00:31:37] Jeremy Lee Miner: Like I said, in every industry, cause you know, according to Forbes magazine, there's 163 industries in the world, which I find shocking.

I was like, there has to be like 10 million, 163 core industries. And then there's subcategories in each one home improvement home services is one of the top five industries retrain, but then there's doors, there's windows, there's cabinets, there's bathtubs, there's siding, there's decking. There's like 50 different categories.

So depending on the industry, the questions will be tweaked a bit, right? So with any PQ, we use the same formula for every industry because companies and people always say, how are you guys able to duplicate in every industry? Well, it's because of the formula. We're not personality selling. We're not winging it.

Because when we go into an industry, we find out what problems do those prospects have. Now, what I mean by problems is let's say, if you're in the marketing agency space, like you are, what would be some common problems, lack of leads, not enough leads, the leads they get, they feel aren't qualified, which is usually a sales related problem, but could be marketing.

Maybe they're marketing to the wrong avatar, right? So there's all of these problems, but that's just the basics part of the problem, because. Once we find out what those problems are, we then find out what are the consequences to that prospect if they don't get solved, which in your case, the biggest consequence could be they go out of business and when they go to business, maybe they can't pay.

For their daughter's education, maybe they can't pay for their grandma to go into the nursing home and all these other personal things are affected because of the lead problem, right? So it goes all the way back. So once we find out the problems, the prospects have for that industry, consequences of what happens if they don't get them solved and how does your solution solve those problems, right?

It's easy for us to write out sales structures for that industry, okay, because we're going to start off by learning what are called connection questions. Okay, connection questions take the focus off you put it on them, but most importantly disarm the prospect where they let their guard down, and we get them immediately into results based thinking over price or cost based thinking.

Second type of questions we're going to ask are situation questions. So that's like an example for industry. I might start off now, walk me through. What do you guys do to generate new leads and clients now? Because I have to find out their real situation, but more importantly, as you know, you have to help them find out their real situation because most don't understand the real situation when they first start talking to you.

[00:34:00] Hala Taha: Yeah. 

[00:34:01] Jeremy Lee Miner: They have an idea, but they don't really know the depth of the problems and they don't know the consequences if they don't get solved. Okay. Otherwise they would already figure it out. So I'm going to ask situation questions to help them understand the real situation, because if I can't get the prospect to understand where they're really at now, how can I build a gap to where they want to be if they don't really understand where they're at?

That's really hard to do. Okay. Then I'm moving into what are called problem awareness questions that really start to build that gap. So a really good one for you is I might lean in and say, so you've been with XYZ agency the last five years. I mean, they're, they're fairly. Decent. I mean, what's caused you to feel like they're not going to be able to really help scale you in your company now, instead of what would most people ask?

What are some challenges you're having with your marketing? That's such a predictable question. They've heard a billion times that they know what you're trying to do. But if I reverse engineered that and I almost pushed them away with that kind of skeptical concern. I mean, you hold on, you've been with them for the last five years.

I mean, it can't be all doom and gloom over there. What do you like about what they've done? Well, we like this. We like that. Would you change if you could? Well, and then they start to open up, right? That's another way to get them to let their guard down. I mean, you've been with this company for the past five years.

I mean, what's caused you to feel like they're not going to help you grow even bigger. Well, don't get me wrong, Jeremy. We like them, but, and now they start to tell me all the problems and things they don't like. Then I'm going to clarify and probe off that to bring out more of their emotional state. See what I'm talking about?

That's an example. Then not only do I have to help them find their problems and the real problems, because most salespeople. A prospect would tell him a problem and then what do they do? They sell to that one problem. But the problem is, is that means the gap's going to be not very big. So you only help them find one problem because they told you what they thought they needed.

So you start selling to that. And then we wonder why they ghost us and don't buy. Well, what happens is they go look at that problem. They're like, well, maybe the problem's not that bad. Or maybe I can figure out how to solve this one problem myself. But if I know how to really problem find, not problem solve, because that happens after they buy.

Problem solving happens after they buy. You can't be a problem solver if they don't buy. You don't want to be a problem solver after they buy. But if I want to sell more, I've got to be a problem finder. So if I can help them all to find two or three or four or five other problems they didn't realize they had, how big is that gap now? Huge. 

And even if they're like, well, that one problem, I think we can do it on their own. Now there's four other problems. They're like, there's no way we can do that. And they're still buying. You see something? There's going to be a big gap. But not only do I have to help them find problems, that's half the equation.

I then, as you know, got to get them to see, and more importantly feel, what the future looks like once the newfound problems are solved. We call those solution awareness questions. Some call that future pacing. So I get them on this emotional high, and then I'm going to rip that away with what we call consequence questions that get them to defend themselves on why they feel like they need to change.

Well, John, I mean, you certainly sound motivated, but for you, I mean, why look at doing this now? Like why not push it down the road? Like a lot of companies do in your industry, they'd end up going out of business because they don't have the right leads or the reason why, see, that's an identity frame. They don't want to identify with the negative, all the business owners.

They go to business because they don't have the right leads. See, now they don't want to be like that. They're pushing those people away. But now they start to defend themselves on why they need what I'm offering. See how I'm getting them to sell themselves. So there's a lot more to that. Okay. Nobody go out there and use your whole thing.

You use now and like use it when they didn't work. Jeremy, you have to set everything up before that to get it to work. It's just a little piece of the puzzle. I might lean and says, Well, I mean, you certainly sound motivated, but what happens if you don't do anything about this and you keep getting these low quality leads that your salespeople can't even get to answer and you keep losing them to X, Y, Z competitor?

I mean, what is your boss going to think at that point? So I start off with a challenging tone, trigger that emotion. Then I end with what's going to happen to your job at that point, a concern tone, a tone that shows empathy. Why do I want to have a concern tone there? Because your tone is how the prospect interprets Your intention behind everything you ask them.

They interpret, why is he or she asking me this question in the first place? Are they using this question to manipulate me to buy, or are they concerned? Are they doing it out of empathy for my consequences if I don't do anything? See the difference there? So anyways, that's part of the process. 

[00:38:45] Hala Taha: We obviously need to all get your book to really understand and be able to utilize this, because to your point, you can't just jump in and do all these things. You really need to have a foundation. So I want to dig into this tonality. I have a business, I have a social media agency, I also have a podcast network where I recruit podcasters and I get really big podcasters sponsorships.

So I've got two different businesses and I'm the number, by far, the number one seller in my company. And I always think this, that I feel like somebody could duplicate exactly what I do and what I say. But they just don't have the same energy. And they don't have the social proof or whatever. 

[00:39:22] Jeremy Lee Miner: They don't have the same status.

[00:39:23] Hala Taha: They don't have the same status as well. 

[00:39:26] Jeremy Lee Miner: A lot of business owners, like a lot of, I don't want to call you an influencer because I know you're not just an influencer, you have a real business, right? I think there's, when I get on a podcast, they're like, how does it feel to be an influencer? I'm like, I'm not an influencer, like, we're a sales training company, there's a big difference.

Yeah, yeah. But it's because you have a lot of same type of issues because your prospects already have some trust and credibility if they're following you. So they view it a higher status. So when they get on one of your reps, cause that rep doesn't know how to raise their status in the prospect's mind, the prospect feels a bit disappointed.

[00:39:58] Hala Taha: I feel like it's so true. Status is so important, but that's good news for all the entrepreneurs tuning in, because if you're the business owner, you automatically have a little bit more status and hopefully more social proof and things like that. 

[00:40:09] Jeremy Lee Miner: Yeah. You do, you do, but to be able to grow a business, to duplicate it, you know, you're talking about like, when you get up to like even eight figures, let alone nine figures, like you can't get to a nine figure annual business, or even in a couple of years.

If you're like taking all the sales calls, you're not even eight figures taking all the sales calls yourself. You're just never going to get there. So you have to learn how to get your salespeople good quality training where they can duplicate. And you can actually focus on running the business and what you're really, really talented at.

[00:40:40] Hala Taha: Exactly. So that was going to be my next question. How can I get my salespeople to be as good as me on a sales call? 

[00:40:47] Jeremy Lee Miner: You got to train them better. That's the problem. The number one question business owners and salespeople ask me is this. How do I raise my confidence in sales or if they're a business owner, how do I raise the confidence of my salespeople?

And I'm like, well, what do you mean? That's a really easy answer. Like, think about it. If you want to have a higher confidence level, you've got to raise your skill level. How can you have a high confidence level up here with a low skill level? You can't name me a profession where you're going to be high confidence at high confidence level, but your skill level is down here.

Your confidence level always go down to where your skill level is. Now as a salesperson or business owner, you can pump your salespeople up every day, like get them motivated, pumped up, hit your goals raw, and the confidence level shoots up in the morning. But by the middle of the day starts to go down to where their skill level is.

So if I raise my skill level here by learning advanced questions, how to use my tone to get the prospects to emotionally open up. How do I use, let's say if they can see me virtually or even on the phone because your body language affects how your tone sounds, how do I use my body language to influence the prospect where they start to trust me in person, virtually or on the phone?

So once I learn those skills, my skill level goes up. That means I make way more sales. When your salespeople make more sales, does that increase your confidence? Yes. And so your confidence level goes up to where your skill level is. Nothing more, nothing less. So that's what I always say. So you want to increase your confidence level.

You got to increase their skill level. That means daily training. You know, this look at every successful person in life and answer this question. Is training something they did, or is training something they do? I think we all know the answer to that. 

[00:42:30] Hala Taha: Yeah, of course. It's 

[00:42:31] Jeremy Lee Miner: something they do. If you're an NBA fan and you watch Steph Curry shoot three pointers every day, it's something he practiced a long time ago.

Oh, it's just a numbers game. Shoot as many shots as you can. Eventually you'll hit one. No, Steph knows it's a skills game. That's why he practices every day on his technique, his movements, his elbow movements, his hand movements. And that's why he's the greatest. Julia Roberts, George Clooney, I could name any actor or actress.

Training is something they do daily. That's why they get paid $20 billion a film, which they should compared to the person that's been in Hollywood for 15 years, that is still a waitress or waiter because those other actors and actresses put in more work and developed more skill, and that's why they get the jobs compared to everybody else who doesn't.

That's why look at top 1% CEOs compared to an average CEO. How much training is the top 1% going through reading books? Learning from programs rather than the average salesperson that's more interested in watching Netflix. And I, I mean, I literally could go through every industry on the planet. The top 1 percent are always learning.

Everybody else are just kind of staying where they were from, you know, years ago, they went to college or. Maybe read a couple books or something. That's yeah. 

[00:43:41] Hala Taha: That reminds me of a quote that I read from you that I really liked because it's different from other people. Say you said people don't buy from people who they like.

They buy from companies who they feel they can get the best results from. 

[00:43:52] Jeremy Lee Miner: They trust. 

[00:43:53] Hala Taha: Yeah. 

[00:43:53] Jeremy Lee Miner: That's a big discrepancy because and I hate I love the book that this came from. Dale Carnegie, I think, uh, how to win friends and influence people. I love the book. It was written in 1936. We're in 2024. 

[00:44:06] Hala Taha: Yeah. 

[00:44:06] Jeremy Lee Miner: Fine behaviors had rapidly changed because of the power of the internet and social media.

In 1936, none of that existed. You bought from the neighbor who had the grocery store. You bought from your mom who sold this certain product. Cause you didn't know about all these other options. Now you do the world has changed. You don't necessarily buy from people that you like. You buy from people or companies that you trust can get you the best result.

Now you love grandma, but grandma might be selling a product or a service, let's say. But you might trust Paula, who's a complete stranger, because you view her at a higher status in that profession as grandma. You love grandma. You don't necessarily hate Paula, you just don't know her. But you trust that she can get you the best result.

That's why you buy from her. You love your neighbor, right? Who sells the, at the local hardware store, but you're still buying your tools from Amazon. Cause you trust Amazon can get you the best result. I mean, I could go on and on and on. You don't love Jeffrey Bezos. But you trust they can get you a better result.

People buy from people they trust to get the best result. Period. If they like you, that's just a bonus. 

[00:45:12] Hala Taha: Okay. My last question for you, because I know that you're tight on time. How important is it for sales reps to have a social media presence, or is it more important for the CEO, spokesperson, and the brand to have a big 

[00:45:25] Jeremy Lee Miner: I think it's important for both.

And here's why. If I could, I always get asked the question, like, if you could go back in your sales career, what would you change? I'd be like, having a social media presence. You know, social media kind of came around around 2006, 2008. I don't even think I had to start a Facebook account until like 2010. I didn't start an IG account till almost 2022.

That was when I did my first real, I didn't even know what they were. Right. And now I have like 700, 000 followers just on IG from reels two years later. So if I had started as a salesperson with social media, doing at least one reel a day, which is so easy to do, we do like five a day, do one a day. I can't imagine how many more customers I would have.

I wouldn't have had to done any cold calling, which is probably a good thing I did, because now we train that really effectively. You know, I was one of the top 50 earners in any industry out of like, you're talking a few hundred million salespeople ranked from my earnings over my 18 year career. And I didn't have any social media.

Had I had social media, I think it was number 45, but number one, so in any industry, okay. Selling anything. So social media is important for the sales person. Cause you'll get more free clients. Okay. You establish yourself as like an authority or an expert in your field, but it's also important for like the person representing the brand, like Elon Musk.

If you think of him, he's representing the brand of Tesla and SpaceX and all these other AI companies. And you know, him as that's the expert in those things. He's the expert with this type of car. He's the expert with AI because he's branded. So I think it's important to do both for sure. 

[00:46:57] Hala Taha: Awesome. Well, I know that you got to run Jeremy.

It was so great to have you on the show. Where can everybody learn from you and everything that you do? 

[00:47:06] Jeremy Lee Miner: Follow us on Instagram. You can go to my verified account, Jeremy Lee minor. Follow us there. We do about 180 reels a month. Some of those are intentional. Some of those are just repurposed. Content and keynotes, stuff like that.

So you'll learn some basic stuff there. You know, they'll probably help you sell more. You're always welcome to go into barnes and noble. com. You can get our Barnes and Noble and a wall street journal, bestseller, new model of selling, like you mentioned. Now, book is a book it's words, right? Tonality and body language can't be taught in a book, unfortunately.

So books, you know, will help you a little bit, but they're not going to like triple your sales or anything, because it's a book, right? You're not going to remember 97 percent of that after a month. So Those are good places to start. You want to learn more advanced training. You can always message us on IG or get our social media profiles and somebody on my team will message you back and you can look at a different like training programs for industry.

If you want to go to like the next level, but just start following me. That's the first step. 

[00:48:03] Hala Taha: I totally recommend it. Thank you so much, Jeremy, for coming on the podcast. 

[00:48:06] Jeremy Lee Miner: You are too nice. Now I'm going to get upset at you if you say that to every sales trainer. I'm going to go back and watch. 

[00:48:11] Hala Taha: No, I promise.

I really love your stuff. 

[00:48:14] Jeremy Lee Miner: You're too kind. Hey, I've been following you for a couple of years, watching your business really, really grow. So I just wanted to say congratulations and looking forward to see where your company goes in the next five to 10 years. 

[00:48:25] Hala Taha: Thank you. 

Well guys, there you have it. Selling is freaking hard. And like Jeremy said, nobody is a natural born salesperson. You have to work at it. And if you want to be a good entrepreneur, you've got to be great at it. The good news is that sales is not rocket science, but it does help to know a little bit of neuroscience.

So many of our decisions are driven by emotion and not by logic. And if you aren't selling to the emotional side of the brain, you're making things harder for yourself. You're pushing against human behavior instead of going with it. So, how can you get potential clients and customers to persuade themselves of your value?

Here are some of my favorite tips that Jeremy mentioned. First, mismatching. I love this tip. Try downplaying things like potential benefits. Act like it's no big deal. Let your prospects upplay it for you. Status is also important. Play the detached expert. Don't be so needy. If you want to raise your own status in the prospect's brain, then act like you deserve the status.

Really know your stuff. Don't be desperate for the deal. And remember, even if you don't have a lot of social proof, you can have situational status in your conversations with prospects. Next, listen. We all know that's super important, but remember that it's important to listen to what your prospect means, not just what they say.

So listen to their tone. What they mean and what they say might be two completely different things. And what they mean always is the truth. Finally, always be training. Even the best salespeople are willing to get better. They're working at it, just like any skill or talent. If you want to boost your ability and your confidence, you have to work at it.

You got to put in the reps, take sales calls, even if you don't think they're a good fit for your business, especially when you're just starting out, get to practice. Like Jeremy said, sales is not a numbers game. It's a skills game. Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting Podcast. You don't need me to persuade you of its value.

If you just listened to this entire episode and you learned and profited from this conversation with sales guru Jeremy Miner, then you know how valuable this podcast is. So why don't you just share it with your friends, colleagues, and family and spread our show by word of mouth. I'm And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then please take a couple minutes and drop us a five star review on Apple podcast.

It just takes a few minutes and it totally makes my day. If you prefer to watch your podcasts as videos, you can find us on YouTube. All of our episodes are uploaded there. You can also find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn by searching my name. It's Hala Taha. Big shout out to my amazing production team.

Thank you guys for all your hard work and dedication. This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the podcast princess, signing off.