Hala Taha: Jim, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

Jim Kwik: So good to be here. I- Thanks for having me back.

Hala Taha: Of course. This is the third time that Jim has been on, and every conversation has been absolutely incredible.

You are a brain expert. You are a memory expert- Mm ... a learning expert, and I'm just so excited to kind of dig into everything. And something that I'm not gonna do today is be so worried about repeating any sort of information that we've covered in the past because I was realizing that half the things that we talked about, I didn't even retain, so how could I have expected my listeners to retain?

Uh, so I wanna start there. Why is it that we can hear things more than once and still not remember them or recall them?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. The, the, it's so important for entrepreneurs to have a good memory. I, I think two of the most costly words in business are, "I forgot." I mean, just think about the consequence of saying, "I forgot to do it.

I forgot to bring it. I forgot to go to that meeting. I forgot what I was gonna say- Mm ... to this person. I forgot that conversation, what was said to me." [00:01:00] Uh, you know, "I forgot how to do something. I forgot that person's name." You know? And so, um, on the other side, memory is a magnifier. It's a multiplier. It can make you money.

When you can easily remember client information, product information, you could do sales videos or pitches, uh, remember sales scripts, give presentations without notes, you know, walk into a room of 20 strangers and leave saying goodbye to, to all 20 of them, you know they're all gonna remember you. So memory makes things a lot easier, and, uh, it'll make you money for sure.

Um, it was, it was interesting. I was just in Miami, uh, speaking at, at an event, uh, doing brain training. We train a lot of Fortune 500 companies, and a commercial real estate guy came to me and he, uh, he's like, "Jim, I wish I would've gone through this before." He said he, he lost a $50 million deal because he called the client, uh, the wrong name twice.

Hala Taha: Oh, my gosh.

Jim Kwik: Could you imagine? Yeah. Because what, you know, what does that make, what's the message we send to somebody-

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm ...

Jim Kwik: you know, when we, uh, when we have those memory lapses? [00:02:00] So, um, yeah, I mean, the idea here is there's a forgetting curve. When people hear something once on a podcast, even previous episodes, um, within two days of when you're exposed to information once from a presentation, a conversation, you read it, you listen to it on a podcast, um, 80% of it, it's gone-

Hala Taha: Mm

Jim Kwik: unless you're, you are doing something with that information. And, uh, I think part of it is just, uh, I would say number one is, you know, part of it is just paying attention.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Sometimes when people are listening to something like this, they're multitasking, like they're, they're cleaning or they're, they're working or they're working out or they're driving and there's, uh, you know, their focus is k- Comes and goes and- Mm-hmm

the focus is, uh, I mean, the art of memory is the art of attention. You could easily remember a name or something that you just read, but it's if our mind is wandering, that's a challenge. Also, we're not taught how to remember things. Like in school- Mm-hmm ... you know, I know there were a lot of subjects for entrepreneurship that wasn't taught in school that would've been useful.

Um, you know, leadership, investing, [00:03:00] uh, negotiation skills, sales skills, you know, the legal parts to a business. Um, but same thing with, uh, school teaches you what to learn, what to remember, what to think, but there's zero classes on how to learn.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: How to remember, you know, how to think. Um, and I think, uh, those are the, like the lead dominoes right now.

They're, they're highest lever point for... I think the faster you learn, an entrepreneur can learn, the faster they will earn. Knowledge today is not only power, it's, it's profit. And, uh, you know, there's this divide, not those just who have and those who don't have. There's a divide between those who know some things and those who don't know.

Even in age of AI, you know, information is ubiquitous. We all have access to information. Mm-hmm. Right? You know, I know we could talk about AI a little bit later, but it's no longer a competitive advantage 'cause everybody has it. Yep. It's what you bring to it, though, that makes the difference. But the reason why it's so important is, um, you can only make...

Your life is the sum total of all the choices you made up to this point.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Right? Who to spend time with, you know, what to focus on, what you're gonna eat, how you're gonna move, uh, what city you're gonna live in. [00:04:00] Um, and, uh, and it's interesting. You can only make good choices based on the information you know.

And when you know more, you can do more. When you know better, you could do also do better also as well.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, there's a reason why people have seen pictures of me with Elon or Oprah or these individuals. You know, people ask how we bonded, how we connected. We bonded over books, you know, because even Warren Buffett reads 50, you know, 500 pages a day.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: So he has more information so he can make better decisions, you know? And so I, I love it. Um- Yeah ... but yeah, one of the reasons, so the reason's not paying attention, the forgetting curve, uh, not having a system to remember things, you know, also as well.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Um, and, uh, you know, and also just asking the question, like, "How can I use this?"

You know, I feel like you learn something once- Yep ... and then if you don't use it, whatever you don't use, you lose, right? It's use it or lose it. Mm-hmm. So what happens in the brain is you start pruning this information, uh, so it's more efficient, right? And so you start pruning or deleting this information, and that's why I'm a big, you know, [00:05:00] advocate for, you know, app- application.

Like why- Yeah ... learn a new idea if you're not gonna implement it?

Hala Taha: So if people are listening to this podcast, and let's say there's two different people. One person is multitasking-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: and the other person is actually like, "I really wanna take advantage of this, and I have, like, a pen and a paper"- Yeah ... or like, "I've got a computer," or whatever it is.

Jim Kwik: Sure. Sure.

Sure.

Hala Taha: How should they actually listen to this podcast- Yeah ... episode to retain the most information?

Jim Kwik: So the, the person who's multitasking, so they've done, uh... When people, uh, people ask me all the time, you know, as an author, like, "What's the best... Is it better to read something in a, in a book or to listen to it on audiobook," for example.

Mm-hmm. Um, and people will test better when they read it in terms of comprehension and retention. Uh, and part of it is because when usually when we're listening to something, we are multitasking, right? So our focus is separate. So say the person who is trying to multitask, and we could talk about the science of multitasking and how it's really task switching and how it's not very effective.

Yeah. Focus on, if you're driving, focus on driving. Like, if you're operating heavy machinery, focus on that, [00:06:00] right? There's a priority there. And that person can listen and get a, kind of a, just a good review on- Mm-hmm ... and, and bits of it, and then come back and really study it, you know, when they have a chance.

I would highly recommend that. For the person who's taking notes, um, I don't know if they're watching it or listening it, everybody has a preferred channel of learning. Not, not so much a learning style, but a channel they prefer to receive information in. Mm-hmm. Um, and I would say taking notes. If you're gonna take notes, um, you know, you could either do it handwriting notes or, or digital note-taking.

Handwriting will outperform digital note-taking, you know, um- In terms of

Hala Taha: retention.

Jim Kwik: Absolutely, and understanding. Um, digital is great for storing information. Mm-hmm. It's great for sharing it with your team. Uh, but in terms of, uh, understanding and retaining the information, handwriting notes will outperform.

Um, you know, and everyone has a different process. Some people use it and they'll handwrite on a, on one of their tablets and then use AI to organize it or store it or Notion or-

Hala Taha: Yeah ...

Jim Kwik: summarize it.

Hala Taha: One of the good things that, one of the really, uh, [00:07:00] like, hidden talents that you have is, is remembering, remembering a lot of names.

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: And I have a story that, that I remembered when I was studying your stuff, and it's, uh, one of my guy friends, we were trying to set him up with a, a girl that we know, and we brought him to, like, a party, and she's like a gorgeous girl, has lots of options, and he's, he's a great guy, uh, but he couldn't remember her name And they kept talking and, and she was like, "What was your..."

I'll say her name is Anna. It's not Anna. And he'd be like, "What's her name?" We're like, "Anna." And then he would like call her a different name and like couldn't remember her name all night.

Jim Kwik: Wow.

Hala Taha: And then she was like, "I don't wanna see this guy. Like, sorry, like I'm not going on a date with him. He couldn't even remember my name."

Jim Kwik: Hmm. That's like a Seinfeld ep- There was a Seinfeld- ... episode, uh, this is... I'm, I'm dating myself. I'm, I'm gonna be 53, so. Um, where J- uh, Jerry Seinfeld, it was a sitcom comedy where he was dating somebody and was intimate with her but didn't know her name.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: So every single time she went to the bathroom, he would try to go into her purse to get, you know, look at her driver's license.

Every [00:08:00] time George or Kramer would come by, he would introduce them hoping that she would say their name. Um, I think the put out in the, the through line was, uh, in the joke was, uh, it'd rhyme with a part of the female anatomy- ... or something like that. But, um, but it, but... and, but Seinfeld talks about common things.

You know, they had an episode where they lost the, where they parked the car. Mm-hmm. The whole episode was just trying to find the- They're trying to find the car ... the lost

Hala Taha: car. We've all been there.

Jim Kwik: But, um, but yeah, I, I, I feel bad for your, for your, for your friend. That's embarrassing.

Hala Taha: It's embarrassing, and it made her feel like she wasn't important, that he must be like talking to so many girls- Or he didn't she-

or that she wasn't a focus. Or

Jim Kwik: he didn't care.

Hala Taha: Or he didn't care.

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: So I'd love to understand when we remember things, whether it's people's names or their kids' names or a story they told us- Mm-hmm ... in the past-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: how does that improve our networking and relationships?

Jim Kwik: I think it's huge because it's, you know, the, they, they say success is what you know, so we teach people how to, you know, know that faster, right?

Read it faster, learn it faster. It's who you [00:09:00] know. Um, so remembering them is very important, but it's also who, who knows you. And I feel like today especially, it's helped so many people with their confidence. Like when you know you can walk into a room and retain a lot of the information from conversations and people's names, you walk in different because in psychology they have a confidence-competence loop that the more competent you get, the more confident you are.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And I think being confident in your memory and your ability to recall information, especially in this expert economy, you know, where n- nobody listening to this as an entrepreneur or aspiring entrepreneur is paid, you know, for their brute strength, right? It's, it's your brain strength. Mm-hmm. It's not your muscle power today.

It's your mind power. It's not like we're working on fields and, you know, in the agricultural age or industrial age, moving things in factories. It's our ability to come up with new ideas and, and a lot of creativity comes from memory also, from re- remembering things, you know, being a generalist, knowing, you know, a good amount about a lot of things.

Mm-hmm. But then connecting those dots, you know, to innovate, you know- Yeah ... like, like a phone. Like wh- [00:10:00] wh- what Steve Jobs did, right? There's a camera, and there's a calculator, and there's a, there's a, their phone and, and all this other things. Took, you know, different things, created something brand new. And, and entrepreneurs, that's what we're doing.

We're innovating, you know- Yeah ... all the time. Um, but I would say that, uh, remembering names is very important because you need to be able to stand out. And when you have, you have a, what I call quick recall, and you're able to recall information well, people feel like that you were thinking about them Right?

That, that you remember their conversations. Yeah. That they, that you, that they were important. You know, there's a... What's, what's the quote? Um, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Like, how are you gonna show somebody, as an entrepreneur, you care for their health, their family, their finances, you know, whatever you have to offer them, if you don't care enough to just remember things about them?

Hala Taha: Totally.

Jim Kwik: You know? So, you know, 'cause even if you don't remember, you, like that kind of thing, nothing you know past that would count.

Hala Taha: And you just lose trust so much- You do ... like if you don't remember what you were supposed to do for your client or what you talked about on the last call and what you were- Yeah

[00:11:00] supposed to implement. Like, you could lose trust so fast if you can't retain-

Jim Kwik: Absolutely ... a client conversation. And people now- nowadays wanna work with the best. And I, and I think, you know, to be able to stand out, before you sell anything, you sell yourself, right? Mm-hmm. And so but absolutely. Like, if you remember people's conversations and what they said and their preferences and the problems that they're dealing with, the things that they value in life, the things that they're proud of, the things that keep them up at night, then they, people feel like you're just thinking about them all the time.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, I, I, I c- I can't see a situation where that wouldn't be helpful for an entrepreneur. Ab- absolutely.

Hala Taha: Yeah. Okay, I wanna do something really fun. So you are incredible at recalling anything, names, words, whatever it is. So- Sure ... I thought it'd be fun to list off 10 random items.

Jim Kwik: Okay.

Hala Taha: And then in, you know, 10 minutes or so, I'm gonna ask you to recall those items.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Can, can, can people watching or listening try it also?

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Yeah?

Hala Taha: Because in the meanwhile, I'm gonna ask you how we can remember things better.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, that'd be great if, if [00:12:00] people at home could also go through the list and then, you know, you know, take their time and try to remember it. Don't write it down.

I would challenge everyone not to write it down. Mm-hmm. You know, I, I believe there's no such thing as a good or bad memory. There's a, a trained memory and untrained memory. So yes, listen to this, memorize it. Let's memorize it all together. Um, don't write it down, and, um, maybe I could give some tips later on, on how people could remember that.

Hala Taha: Yeah, and then you guys can rewind and go back and see if you can actually remember it after learning.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Well, we'll go through the list later. That'll be fun.

Hala Taha: Okay. One, pink flamingo.

Jim Kwik: A pink flamingo.

Hala Taha: Two, Tesla key.

Jim Kwik: Tesla key.

Hala Taha: Three, blueberry muffin.

Jim Kwik: Blueberry muffin. Oh, you're making me, you're making me...

Blueberries, by the way, are great brain food. Blueberry muffins.

Hala Taha: I had some this morning. Four, golden microphone.

Jim Kwik: Golden microphone.

Hala Taha: Five, broken iPhone.

Jim Kwik: Broken i... A broken iPhone?

Hala Taha: Yep

Jim Kwik: [00:13:00] You, you came up with these randomly?

Hala Taha: Yes

Jim Kwik: Okay. I'm giving people- This- ... a little bit of time to, to, to come up with theirs. Go ahead.

Hala Taha: Six, red high heel

Jim Kwik: Red high heel. Just one or two?

Hala Taha: Just one.

Jim Kwik: Okay, red high heel.

Hala Taha: Seven, brain-shaped balloon

Jim Kwik: Brain-shaped balloon? So it literally is random.

Hala Taha: Eight, $100 bill

Jim Kwik: $100 bill

Hala Taha: A Benjamin, yes.

Jim Kwik: Okay

Hala Taha: Nine, mini treadmill A

Jim Kwik: mini treadmill

Hala Taha: Yes, for a mouse

Jim Kwik: For a mouse? Okay.

Hala Taha: 10, diamond notebook

Jim Kwik: 10 is diamond notebook

Hala Taha: Diamond notebook

Jim Kwik: Okay

Hala Taha: All right.

So-

Jim Kwik: Are we doing more, or then

Hala Taha: that's it?

Jim Kwik: That's it Okay

Hala Taha: You could do... You think you could... How many do you think you could do?

Jim Kwik: Well, I've taught people to how to memorize, like, pi to, like, thousands of digits, but it's, it's, uh, it's all, it's, it's a, it's a- It's all the same thing? ... this is, it's the, it's the same [00:14:00] principle that I just...

But, um, yeah, so everybody who's listening, just do the best. And notice also not only just, you know, um, how many you r- remember when we come back to the list, also think about how you remembered it. Like, what was your strategy, you know, for that?

Hala Taha: Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about, like, you just said, like, that there's, like, a process to it.

It's the same process, basically. What is that process? Like, how are you remembering things? Well,

Jim Kwik: all of... I mean, e- in, even in high school, we learn, like, memory is just three stages. You encode it, you store it, and then you retrieve it.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: You know? And if there's a break in any one of those, you're not gonna get the remembrance that, you know, that you desire and that you really, uh, deserve.

You know, I, I really, um, you know, for p- people that are connected to my work, they know that I had a brain injury when I was five years old.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: Uh, because of it, I had learning disabilities. My mother became a special education teacher to help me with my dis- my, my challenges. Uh, I'd have migraines every day.

I was-- It took me three [00:15:00] years longer to learn how to read.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: And so, you know- They

Hala Taha: called you the boy with the broken brain.

Jim Kwik: That was- Yeah. That was my, that was my... And that was all through school, uh, through... It was, and it wasn't just, like, elementary school. It was middle school, um, junior high, high school.

I just, I worked hard. You know, I came, you know, from immigrant parents. You know, we lived in the back of a laundromat my, that my mom worked at. You know, we worked hard, but I just didn't get the grades. You know, it's just, it's a challenge. But I realized, you know, after this, my, I've been doing this for 34 years, it's not how smart you are- Mm-hmm

it's how are you smart.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: It's not how smart you are, it's really how are you smart, and we all have different intelli- And that intelligence, i- even in the world of AI, it's not fixed, you know, like your shoe size. It can be trained, but school, again, teaches you what to learn and what to remember, what to think, but not how to.

So, you know, I focus on this thing called meta learning, which is the science and art of learning how to learn, which I, again, think it's the best thing that all entrepreneurs could focus on. Because once you can learn how to learn faster, you could read three times faster, understand [00:16:00] more from it, you know, remember something in a fraction of time that normally takes people, you know, hours.

Um, then what can you apply it to? You could apply it towards money, right? You could, you know, that subject or skill. Yeah. Mandarin, martial arts, music, management, you know, marketing. Everything gets so much easier once you can learn how to learn.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. It's, it's like, it's like the biggest advantage.

Hala Taha: So you've got this strategy, I think, related to memory specifically called MOM.

Jim Kwik: Yes

Hala Taha: Can you tell us about that?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. So the, um, so the mother of... And it's also interesting. I wrote Limitless, you know, in, like, less than two months. Um, we donated the proceeds to charity. We built schools in Ghana and Guatemala, Kenya-

Hala Taha: Aw ...

Jim Kwik: for girls, uh, who don't have access, girls and boys, uh, who don't have access to education.

Um, and then we provided healthcare 'cause a lot of people were sick, so they couldn't go to school, and clean water. Um, also, we donated to Alzheimer's research for women. Women are twice as, like, experience Alzheimer's than men.

Hala Taha: Wow.

Jim Kwik: Twice as likely. I lost my... I lost, when I was going through my challenges when I was [00:17:00] seven, uh, because my parents were always working, um- My grandmother, uh, raised me and, uh, she passed when I was seven to Alzheimer's.

Hala Taha: Oh.

Jim Kwik: So in memory of her. But, um, so I, I, I bring this up, I mean, everybody has their kind of their origin story. Mm-hmm. But my struggles became my strength, you know? Mm-hmm. That adversity can be an advantage, that with challenge comes change. Like, I don't know a, one, one strong person that had an easy life.

Hala Taha: Exactly.

Jim Kwik: You know? And entrepreneurship is not necessarily an easy path. I think it's extremely worthwhile if you do it right. Um, and I'm a big fan of, I've been an entrepreneur my whole life. I, I feel like, uh, you know, be able to solve problems, be able to move the economy, be able to create jobs, and yeah, uh, really, really, really, really good things.

But when it comes to, to MOM, I, I wrote it in, um, Greece, most of it, the memory is the largest chapter in Limitless, um, 'cause I found out there was a goddess of memory and she was the mom.

Hala Taha: A goddess of memory?

Jim Kwik: There's a goddess of memory. Hmm. And she's the mother, the mom, uh, [00:18:00] to the, uh, the nine muses, uh, of science, literature and art.

Hmm. So all of science, literature, and art, their mother is, is, is the goddess of

memory.

Hala Taha: Oh, so interesting.

Jim Kwik: So it's so, so fascinating. And then I got curious about, like, what did people... Like, I base our strategies based on the latest ner- you know, like the neuroscience of how people learn and remember. And also I wanted to know, like historically, what did ancient civilizations do?

Like what did, what did they do in ancient Greece to remember things before there was a printing press?

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Right? They had to remember things. Yeah. You know? And so yeah, MOM is very, uh, three principles to, uh, quick recall. The M... Well, let's apply that towards names. Sure. Right? In business. Um, let's say someone listening or watching, they have trouble remembering names.

Um, but we had a, like a briefcase here or a suitcase of a million dollars cash. Hmm. And I know you have an international audience, whatever they- ... but a lot of money, tax-free, um, if you just remember the name of the next stranger you meet. Who's gonna remember that person's name for a million dollars?

Hala Taha: Everyone.

Jim Kwik: Everyone. Yeah. So [00:19:00] as, as a memory coach, my job is to, to call people on their BS, their belief systems, right? Um, it's not true you can't remember a name. It's the first M stands for motivation.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Like, a lot of people aren't feeling or presencing, like, how important it is to remember someone's name.

So a simple hack is just like, you know, before you meet somebody, you even open up your mouth, you know you're gonna talk to 'em soon, just why do you wanna remember this person's name, right?

Hala Taha: It's like, why do I care?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. It's like, and then come up with a couple of answers. Like, maybe it's to show the person respect.

Maybe it's to make a sale. Maybe it's to get a referral. At the very least, maybe it's thing that, you know, to practice what they learned on this podcast. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, without a reason, you won't remember. 'Cause reasons reap results.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: And so I just feel like if you don't feel it, you're not gonna remember it, you know, 'cause it's not relevant to you.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: So that alone, I think is very important. Um, the O in MOM is observation. A lot of people aren't forgetting the name, they're just not even listening.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: You know [00:20:00] what I mean? Mm, yeah. Like, at, at events that you go to, sometimes you're with someone, but you know that they're, like, looking over your should- their sh- you know, your shoulder to see who else- Mm

is in the room. Yep. Or maybe we're guilty of talking to somebody, they're talking, but we're thinking about h- what we're gonna say.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm. Or, like, you're, you're for some reason self-conscious about, like, your outfit or something.

Jim Kwik: Something like that. Yeah. Exactly. And so, like, and so we're not even present, and so the art of memory is the art of attention, you know?

And so I remember years ago, I was, um, I was, I went to a, a charity event. It was, like, 2,000 people, and I get assigned to a table, so I go to my assigned table. I'm the first one there, and then, um, you know, a few minutes later, uh, Forest Whitaker, the Oscar-winning actor, sits next to me, and then Richard Branson sits down, and then Ashton Kutcher and his, uh, twin brother, which I didn't realize he had a twin brother.

And, um, and then President Clinton sits right next to me. And, uh, I had met him a few years earlier, and we had this brief conversation, but he sits down, and [00:21:00] he remembered my name.

Hala Taha: Wow.

Jim Kwik: And but then I was like, "Yeah, abs-" I said the same thing, "Wow," and then I was like, "Oh, of course he was told who's sitting, he was sitting with," right?

Sorry. He picks up the conversation that we started three years earlier, and nobody ha- was privy to that conversation.

Hala Taha: Wow.

Jim Kwik: And, uh, and I was like, "You know, I'm the memory. I, I need to know how you're doing this." You know, I think genius leaves clues. When somebody does something magical, there's a method behind the magic.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And, uh, and he's telling me this story about, you know, his grandfather in Arkansas in the living room telling stories to the kids. Um, but after he would tell the stories, he would do something very specific and different. He would go to each child and quiz them to see if they were paying, paying attention.

Mm. And, and he, it was more than that, but when he s- explained this to me, I felt this kind of ease and also unease where, have you ever been with somebody, and they're, like, talking, and you feel like you're the only person that exists?

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: They're like, they're so present. Yep. And politics aside, you know, most people would say Clinton, you know, strong [00:22:00] charisma, great communicator, you know, uh, you know, a, a great, uh, you know, or he's got an incredible memory.

Yeah. And I think this powerful presence that he has with people, his incredible memory, his powerful presence comes from being powerfully present.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: And it's not reserved, right, to just an elite few. Anybody could train that, but we have to really just be with somebody, you know?

Hala Taha: And that makes you a good leader.

Like, it's no wonder people- Absolutely ... wanna follow him because- Absolutely ... he builds so much trust with the people around him by just recalling-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: information about them.

Jim Kwik: That, that, that's hu- that's huge because it's also, like, um, like, even if you t- do this mental experiment and write down, or if you're not, can't write something down in your notes, like, picture the word listen in your mind, and if you do the little, like, brain scramble, like a little brain exercise, and move the letters around, it also spells another word perfectly.

Hala Taha: Silent?

Jim Kwik: Mm-hmm. And I think that's, that's the key. You know, um, the great, a great book, uh, Dr. [00:23:00] Stephen Covey, I mention a lot of books, uh, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. You know, but one of the, one of the habits is seek first to understand, then to be understood. But in order to understand, we have to be really present- Mm

you know, with the person.

Hala Taha: I love that.

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: I love that story about Bill Clinton. Okay, let's go back to that list. Let's see if you remembered that list, one through 10.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And people could also check themselves also. Um, was it a pink flamingo?

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: And then it was the Tesla key.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: A blueberry muffin.

Mm-hmm. I call blueberries brain- This is

Hala Taha: insane ...

Jim Kwik: I call, I call them brain berries, uh, you know, without a doubt. A golden microphone.

Hala Taha: Uh-huh. That's correct.

Jim Kwik: You have your, and then you have your broken iPhone.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And you have that big red- Uh, what do they call those, those women's shoe? Um, the high heels?

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: Well, it was one high heel.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. One, absolutely. There's one. And then there's, uh, there [00:24:00] was that big brain balloon. Uh, was, was that, was that brain balloon?

Hala Taha: Brain-shaped balloon, very close.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And, uh, the $100 bill.

Hala Taha: Correct.

Jim Kwik: And then you have that really small little treadmill for the mouse.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: And then you have your- Mini

Hala Taha: treadmill, yeah

Jim Kwik: yeah, and then you have your diamond notebook.

Hala Taha: Wow. Yeah. Wow.

Jim Kwik: But it is, this is the thing, and, and we could've done it for 20, 30, 300 words, uh, 'cause once you know how to do something, you just do it. It just takes more time, you know- Yeah ... in the episode. And, you know, just like if I pass a microphone in an audience and people share their names, memorizing their names, you know, 30...

The same thing you do for 10 names, you do for 100 names. It just takes more time because everyone has to introduce

Hala Taha: themselves and everything. What, what are you doing? Are you visualizing it?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Are you- And then, like once you understand your memory works, you could, you know, you could even... If, if like, you know, we're here in Austin, and I'm, I'm, I'm here pretty frequent, um, you know, if I, we see each other at a restaurant, uh, 30 days from [00:25:00] now, let's say, you could say, "Jim, do you still remember that list?"

And I'll still remember most of that list- Mm ... without even rehearsing it once.

Hala Taha: Wow.

Jim Kwik: You know, and then, or I could, or I'll do it backwards and go diamond notebook, mini, mini treadmill, you know, $100 bill, brain-shaped balloon, you know, and, uh, and, you know, the, the red high heel. That's really big in my, my mind.

Um, but once you understand your, your, how, how it works, then you can work them. And this is the kind of stuff... Don't you wish this had been so useful back in school?

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, if you learn it in school, how easy it would remember the periodic table or whatever we had to remember, history or anything.

Mm-hmm. Um, and, you know, but, but imagine applying something that for something that's random and not really that interesting to something that you are interested it, uh, in, that's very relevant to your life. You're gonna remember it even easier 'cause it- Yeah ... you know, has a point.

Hala Taha: I remember, um, in fourth grade, a Spanish teacher told us the countries and capitals of Central America and South America, and to this day, I can still say like Caracas, Venezuela; [00:26:00] Bogotá, Colombia; Quito- I love that

Ecuador. And I could just list them all off, but I couldn't tell you the c- the capitals of, and states of America.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, yeah.

Hala Taha: You know, 'cause I didn't learn it in that way. So-

What are you exactly doing? Like, what are you doing- Yeah ... to, to, to recall that?

Jim Kwik: And, and I'm, and I'm curious 'cause I would love wherever you're consuming this, maybe you could put, post a comment or something to see how well people did.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, like if, if people are willing to share. Um, and actually, I c- I could teach you, uh, so we...

I, I could teach you 20 different ways to memorize that list.

Hala Taha: Okay.

Jim Kwik: You know, and after a while, like I, I can rem- I remember names without trying because once you know how to type, you know how to type.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? Once you know how to drive a car, you know how to drive a car. You know, maybe it takes a few weeks or 30 days.

You know, once you know how to tie your shoes, you know how to tie your shoes. Memory is a skill, you know? And so once you know how to do it, you know, you could, you start to... And your confidence goes up and you could just do it more and more and you challenge yourself. Um, but you know, I could teach you 20 different ways of remembering this list.

Uh, [00:27:00] I'll, I'll, I'll One way, if people wanted to, is make a story out of it, if they wanted to. Mm. Right? Right, they could, they could start with the pink flamingo, right? And then all of a sudden, pink flamingo is going into a Tesla car and forgot it, their key.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: So they can't be able to get through it. Um, and out of the, out of the sunroof comes all these, uh, blueberry muffins.

Like, like imagine p- putting all these blueberry muffins inside of a, a, a Tesla car, a car which without a key, right? That'd be kind of silly.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And then all of a sudden, somebody in the shopping, in the parking lot is, is on a, is screaming on a, on a, on a golden microphone, right? As, as an ex- as an example.

Mm-hmm. And then they realize that, uh, you know, saying, "Where's the key?" Whatever, and they realize, like, here it is, but it's about a broken iPhone.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? And really easy, like right in their back pocket on the thing. And even just doing that, and I'm just making this up, this is not what I did. Yeah. Um, but just as, and what it is, is first of all, it's a great exercise in creativity.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? And [00:28:00] entrepreneurs, I think, need to be very crea- creative 'cause I think the future belongs to, to creators. Uh, second of all, when I mentioned there's no such thing as a good or bad memory, there's a trained memory, an untrained memory, um, this is training your memory, right? Mm. And so you tend, once you train your memory, you start remembering, you know, other things 'cause you're training your attention, your imagination, you're storing information.

Um, and then you can work backwards from the story also as well. If you wanna add, you know, uh, the red high heel, you could put that into the story also as well, and imagine that red high heel, you know, that's coming from the iPhone or whatever. May- maybe imagine on, on the broken iPhone there was an image on there of that red high heel.

Mm. On, on... But the screen is broken, right? And then imagine there, it comes out of the phone tied to, you know, a, a, a brain-shaped balloon. Yeah. Uh, going up in the sky, and you bribe somebody $100 to get that balloon for you, and so you're attaching the $100 to it, and somebody wants to, uh, is gonna go get that balloon.

But, but [00:29:00] there's, maybe it's like a little mouse going on a little mini treadmill going towards it. And I think if it makes you laugh, it ma- it makes it memorable, right? Mm. Just like you did- 'Cause

Hala Taha: emotion helps, right?

Jim Kwik: Yeah, emotion helps a lot. Um, you know, and so that little mouse is on the treadmill, and now obviously making a lot of traction.

Um, you know, and then, you know, from there he's taking some notes in his, you know, his diamond, his, his diamond notebook.

Hala Taha: Cute.

Jim Kwik: Um, and that, that's just one way, but there's certainly a, a lot of other ways. But, and as I go through it and I just talking about it, some people will listen and not be able to do it 'cause they just listen.

But if they actually went through and imagined that little story and made up their own, which is even better if you make up your own, um, that would be something that's really simple to do. And then by the way, those 10 things could've been cues or keywords for a speech. You know, as an example.

Hala Taha: Oh, that's really- You know what I mean?

smart. Like, so that you can remember your talking points.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Like, like imagine like you, you, you chose that pink flamingo because it represented a key idea. They say a picture is worth a thousand [00:30:00] words. In a talk or in a toast at a wedding or something like that- Yeah ... you know, or a certain feature, uh, you know, then it gets...

You know, or maybe you wanna talk about, you know, something that's embodied around Tesla, around energy, you know, uh, technology, innovation, whatever it happens to be, and use that as your second point for your speech.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know? And then maybe you're going there to, you know- A recipe or healthy eating or blue, you wanna remember blueberries as a good brain food

Hala Taha: Are you visualizing it in your brain or are you like, are you visualizing the words themselves or like what the words represent?

So people

Jim Kwik: could do ei- either one. Everybody's a little bit different. Remem- remember it's not how smart you are, it's how are you smart. Everyone learns a little bit different. So h- for some people can't visualize as well, or they don't think they, they can.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And so those people could get more of a feeling for it, and maybe hear the words or maybe in d- in different tones or tonalities or, or voices.

Same thing with remember someone's name. You wanna meet somebody named Matt, you can [00:31:00] imagine them using your, their, t- using their ti- Imagine you're at a networking event, or you're at a conference, you meet somebody, and it's really fast. Someone says, "Hi, my name's Matt," and you just imagine using their tie as like a doormat.

And it's so silly. You would never do that.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: And, but what it does is, is it overcomes what I call the six-second syndrome. You know, somebody tells you their name, you have six seconds to do something with it. Mm. Otherwise, it's gone. Right? The handshake breaks, name just falls right to the floor. Yeah.

This is giving you some mental glue to be able to store the information. And then, you know, later on when you're saying goodbye, you see this person there, "Oh, I remember that tie. What was I doing? I was wiping my feet like a doormat. What's the person's name? Matt." Mm. And then this is a way, remember I said you, you encode, you store, you retrieve.

This is a way of encoding it in a way that's memorable, and it's stored right on the person because the, the tie is the reminder, you know, as an example. And, uh, but once you know the person's name is Matt, then the picture disappears. It was a means to an end.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: So you-

Hala Taha: Just to remember his name,

Jim Kwik: right

'cause the opposite [00:32:00] is what most people did to memorize those 10 words. They would go pl- pink flamingo, Tesla key, blueberry muffin, golden microphone, and so on. Rep- repetition. The problem with repetition is it takes time. Like repeating someone's name 50 times takes time.

Hala Taha: So are we just kind of, uh, creating a mini story around each word?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. I mean, you think about how people remember things through history.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Like when you think about the parables from the Bible. Mm-hmm. Like stories, you think about why we use stories in business, right? Because they s- they're, they're vivid, and people could see themselves inside the story. And we're

So they did, uh, they did a study called the Baker Baker Paradox. You know, imagine we're in the studio and somebody walks in. Th- they did this with a focus group. Somebody walks in and say, "Hi, my name is Mr. Baker." And then that someone, they would leave. Somebody else would come in and say, "Hi, I am a baker."

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? Somebody else come in saying, "Hi, I'm Ms. Taylor." Somebody else come, you know, leaves. Somebody else comes in, "Hi, my [00:33:00] name is Ms. Taylor." Right? And so, and so, and then they, they did that repeatedly, and then all of a sudden they said, "Okay, um, which ones do you remember more of the names? And do you think they remember the name or the, the occupation?"

Which, which one? Probably

Hala Taha: the occupation.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And part of it is because when somebody says they're a baker,

Hala Taha: you have- You imagine them-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: like cooking and

Jim Kwik: stuff. There's a story.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? You probably know they wake up very early to be able to make, you know, make their bread. So there's, there's a whole picture and image and, uh, and it makes it more memorable than, than a word that's abstract.

Hala Taha: Does it help, like, if you're meeting somebody at a networking event, like, okay, that's Hala the podcaster, or that's- Yeah ... and like kind of just attaching- The more- ... something else to it ...

Jim Kwik: the more connections you make, like some people will go instead of seeing Matt, you know, so like Mark, I use a marker, put a check mark right on their forehead, and I'll just always remember that and it'll make me...

If it makes me laugh or smile, then, you know, th- that's very, people could say that's very, you know, childlike, but [00:34:00] you know, who are the fastest learners? Like kids. Yeah. They could learn musical instruments, languages, everything, and they make fun of names all the time. Mm-hmm. I mean, I know as a kid, my name was, you know, Quick is my real name.

I didn't... It's not like a stage name. I, I didn't change it. It's my father's name, my grandfather's name. But people made, you know, Nestle Quick or they call me Slow, but that's how kids learn, you know, naturally. So I- I'm not saying when I, when I, like for David I use a slingshot for David and Goliath, right to the nose.

Now, I'm not sharing this with David, right? This is what's- Yeah, you don't want him to know ... the privacy of my own mind, right? That's

Hala Taha: just what you're doing.

Jim Kwik: But some people could just, uh, FDR would do this. He would walk around his office, uh, President FDR, and his strategy was he would picture, turn the name into a picture, like Carol singing Christmas carols or Mary getting married or something like that.

Um, and s- and th- sometimes you come up with something that sounds like. Like, have you ever forgot someone's name and you start going through the alphabet? Like, does it start with an A- Yep ... a B?

Hala Taha: Yep, and then you, you get it eventually-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: usually.

Jim Kwik: Or you get really nervous when you get to like W 'cause there's not many letters after that.

Yeah. But some- imagine a [00:35:00] letter could, could remind you of the name. Imagine something even that is like m- even stronger, you know, like Carol, Christmas carol. Mm-hmm. Like that's gonna be, that's gonna have more, uh, more retention for sure. But FDR would be very, very good with names. He could go around his office, remember everyone's name, and how he reportedly did it was instead of putting a picture like David, you know, uh, like the statue or whatever, he would imagine a, like, the name right on their forehead.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: You know? And you can almost, people can look at me right now in the camera and see Jim. Or they could say, "Wow, Jim has to go to the gym and lift weights," or whatever it happens to be. It just gives you more to remember- Yeah ... than just a, you know, a random word.

Hala Taha: Well, that was so impressive that you remembered that entire list.

Like, I'm like- Yeah. ... shocked. I wasn't sure if you were gonna be able to do it, but of- Yeah ... of course you are. And, um-

Jim Kwik: But imagine being able to do that for what you read.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, like this is, again, random words that don't mean anything, you know, not important to me. But imagine it's something you're studying that you [00:36:00] wanna learn, that you are interested in.

You know, then it's, it's even more exciting because you could use that information- Yeah ... or- I

Hala Taha: totally agree ...

Jim Kwik: or names or anything else.

Hala Taha: I definitely wanna get better at that. So what would be the best place, like we obviously can't go through every hack. Yeah. Where can people learn from you, like specifically about getting better at memory?

So- Would it be Limitless?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Limitless has the, one of the largest chapters, you know, in the book. It's in 50 different languages, so I'm sure people could find it somewhere, or the audiobook. You know, we go in even deeper in it and like, uh, have a conversation at the end of every chapter, you know, in like podcast format.

Um, you know, and, uh, we have the largest online, we have the most popular memory program in the world, so people, it's not hard to find. You just, just search my name. You'll, you'll find it. And

Hala Taha: you have a new book, Limitless Daily, that's gonna be out-

Jim Kwik: I'm so excited- ... pretty soon ... about this

Hala Taha: book. I don't even have a copy yet.

Jim Kwik: No, no. It, it, it is- We're only getting to talk about it at a high level, but- It, it is so amazing. I think, here, here's like one of the most powerful, you know, brain hacks anybody could do. Um, the, I love the science. So Limitless I wrote in a couple [00:37:00] months, right? You know, it was my first book. I had 30 years of content.

It was just really easy. Um, Limitless took me a full year, and I started writing, uh, as, as, as an entrepreneur, one of the things you need to do to be able to, uh- Is, is to really manage your time. Yeah. Right? Manage your focus. And what uses up a lot of time and energy is switching from tasks, like multitasking.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Uh, 'cause we're not actually multitasking, we're task switching, and every time you think you're, you're on Slack and then do social media, you jump to this and that, um, we, we, number one, we lose time 'cause it could reta- it could take anywhere five or 10 minutes to regain your focus- Yeah ... you know, on the new task.

So we lose time. We're actually not gaining it. Second, we make more mistakes. I, I get to train some of the most amazing doctors worldwide, and do you know, like, like surgeons who try to multitask during operations will make more surgical errors, right? I mean, think about texting and driving, right? Yeah.

There's gonna be more accidents. You can't do two cognitive activities well, you know, uh, [00:38:00] because you're, you're switching tasks. And then finally, you use a lo- a lot of energy, you know, when you're trying to multitask. You use a lot of, uh, blood glucose.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Some people struggle with brain fog or mental fatigue in the afternoon.

Check on that. Um, but focus is your superpower, and the challenge is, is like think about the words we use. Like there's, there's a financial part to focus, like you pay attention.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: Right? Like what if tomorrow morning all of you entrepreneurs, every single time you put your focus to something, you had to take out your credit card or debit card or Apple Pay and you had to, you know, put it into Facebook- Mm

every single time, or Instagram or anything. How m- like you would treat your focus different. Totally

Hala Taha: different.

Jim Kwik: Right? And so, you know, instead of like wasting that currency, that money, you know, you would invest it. And then so how are you investing your focus? How are you saving and protecting your focus, you know, like you would do, uh, like you would do money?

Um, and so that, that's one thing. But, um, I think of one of the biggest things people could [00:39:00] do if they're entrepreneur, it's not about time management, 'cause that's the only thing that's equal. Not everybody here, everybody here watching, like we all have different incomes. We all have different networks and connections.

We all have different levels of education, whatever. What's consistent? 24 hours in a day.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: It's not even about time management, it's about mind management. It's about priority management. So the most important thing is to keep the most important thing the most important thing, right? Everything I filter through, even in a world of AI, you know, as opportunities come or challenges or whatever, like for me, it's uh- uh, this is my filter.

If it's not a heck yes, it like, then it's heck no.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? So I'm, like right now there's nowhere else I'd rather be, like 'cause I'm, I'm right here. Thanks. Because, like, it was a yes, right? And, and so I could appreciate that, so I'm fully present. I'm not like o- or somewhere else.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: The other thing is, uh, I, I filter, like I, I think if this doesn't help me grow, glow, or flow, I say no.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Doesn't help me grow, like grow my brand, grow my business, grow my personal [00:40:00] development, if it doesn't help me flow, like be more effective, um, and if it doesn't help me glow, like make me feel good- Yeah ... then, then I say no. And I'm not, I know, like in the beginning, especially for entrepreneurs, right, you have to feed your business until it feeds you back.

Hala Taha: Yeah, you

Jim Kwik: gotta take- Right? Of course ...

Hala Taha: you know.

Jim Kwik: Right. And if you want your... But I do really believe you want your business to grow or your bank account to grow, uh, then we need to grow, especially, you know, our learnings. And

Hala Taha: focus. Focus to me is probably the number one underrated secret of being successful.

And I meet a lot of- Yeah ... younger people who are, or even older people, who are struggling and, like, unable to kind of like take off on their career and, like, make something of themselves. Yeah. And I truly believe it's because they never focused on one thing really hard for long enough. Yeah.

Jim Kwik: And because also we live in a world of distractions, so as pe- so people's focus, especially with short form content everything, and I'm, I'm not even judging that because we use that, right?

And then technology allows this to happen- Mm-hmm ... all of this, and be able to share [00:41:00] our, our message, uh, and our impact at scale. It's so, it's so very important. But what I'm saying is like we have to, we could train our focus, and you could train your focus like a muscle. Mm-hmm. Just like you could train your memory-

Hala Taha: Yep

Jim Kwik: you know, to be present. And that shows up in as an entrepreneur because the, the enemy there is distraction. Mm-hmm. Right? There's so many things, shiny objects for an entrepreneur.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, entrepreneur or ADD, you know, it's, it's, it, it's a challenge. But here, but here's, here's the hack. If you wanna win the day, you have to win the first few minutes of the day.

Yep. And what, what I mean by that, and when we train your focus, when, when you wake up, there's a process that you go through called sleep inertia. Sleep inertia is the transition between the, the s- the sleeping state to the awake, waking state. Yep. And there's certain things that come online. Your alertness comes online, your, uh, your conscious awareness, your attention comes online.

And your working memory, which is like your short-term memory, is not even full yet because you haven't inputted anything in yet. That time is, that [00:42:00] short window for when you wake up, here's what happens. The mental input that you bring in at that time has a disproportionate effect on the rest of the day.

Mm. So what I mean by that is The input that you choose to, to put into your, you know, into, into your brain- Yep ... that first few m- handful of minutes first thing in the morning, has a disproportional effect on things like your mood for the day-

Hala Taha: Yep ...

Jim Kwik: what you're gonna focus on in the day. So the things that you look at first is gonna determine like, like a, a large disproportionate influence on like what you're gonna see and focus on.

Um, also how you frame situations. So we go through situations throughout the day, difficulties, demands, whatever, and whether or not we're having a m- more of an empowering framing on it, like this is a good thing or a bad thing or a useful thing or look for an opportunity, th- is, a lot of it is preset first thing in that morning.

Now what do most people do first thing when they wake up? They, they grab their [00:43:00] device. Yep. Right?

Hala Taha: They're looking at their

Jim Kwik: phone. And I w- I just saw this, uh, Facebook reminder from over eight years ago. Simon Sinek and I have a video, it has 37 million views on, on Facebook. Wow. And it was just talking about the, the effect of our devices.

Mm-hmm. Especially first thing in the morning, if we're that impressionable. Because what happens is you pick that, you pick up your phone, and that window, which has a disproportionate effect on the rest of the day, what are you wiring your brain for? Distraction, number one. Every like, share, comment, cat video, ring, ping, ding, app notification, whatever it is- Yep

is, you have that dopamine flood, right, which you didn't have to earn, um, which is a whole conversation around motivation. And then you wonder why you can't focus later that day, 'cause the first thing you did was flex your distraction muscles. Mm. But the second thing it wires your brain for, which is almost as dangerous, uh, to your productivity and your performance, peace of mind, even your profitability as a entrepreneur, you're training your brain not only to be distracted, but also be, be reactive.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Like you ever pick up your phone first thing in the morning and you get a message, and it hijacks your mood?

Hala Taha: [00:44:00] Totally. Like- Or it hijacks the hour.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like you just dumped out what you were supposed to get done. And then, see that, that's, they, that, that sleep inertia, they call it attentional, attentional priming.

Like your mood, that could, that could last for you for hours. Like you have one voicemail message or an email from an angry client or a WhatsApp or Slack, whatever, and all of a sudden that's your focus for the day.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: And what is it doing? It, it's reactive. Like, uh, Brendon Burchard has this quote, you know, "Your inbox is nothing but a convenient organizational system for other people's agenda for your life."

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: So you're fighting fires, right, all of a sudden. So how are you gonna build an extraordinary day, you know, which leads to weeks, months, years, you know, the life that you want, um, if you're, if you're, if you're on the defense?

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? As opposed to proactively saying, "These are the three things I need to win."

So we, so the book you mentioned is called Limitless Daily. I wrote one page a day, 366 entries, and I wrote it for my, my two young kids for when they're adults. And [00:45:00] it has one power idea- Right? And the science behind it, 'cause I, I like either the psychology or the neuroscience behind it. And it's write- written in a very inspiring, fun way, and then one implementation that they could do in less than one minute.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: And then it has a new identity statement of who you're becoming, right? I love that. All on one page. And so the idea here is in that, in that sleep inertia window, right, where you're attentional priming, you could read this book- Mm ... and then all of a sudden you have a disproportionate advantage throughout the day.

That's so good. And, and I... What I did was, I was, I would wake up and write, and I would think about, what am I facing today? And any of the themes that everyone could relate to. Procrastination, maybe a lack of focus today, uh, imposter syndrome- Mm-hmm ... uh, frustration, overload, too much opportunity. Whatever it happens to be, and I write on that, and I research the science behind it.

I give them one tactic they could do. So in five minutes first thing in the morning, it sets you up to win and be more limitless that day. So it's, [00:46:00] uh, limitlessdaily.com is where people find out more information.

Hala Taha: So cool. I can't wait for that book.

Jim Kwik: Oh, I can't... I, this is, like,

Hala Taha: my best work. Oh, that's gonna be so good.

That's great. Um, attention is really the new IQ. Attention is really what's gonna- Yeah ... differentiate people with all this technology and all this AI. Um, it's really about focus and, and honing your focus. Um, I was reflecting about that even with, like, let's just take the example of me studying for a podcast and how that's evolved over the years, right?

When I first started my podcast, I had more time. I didn't have two companies. And I would study 20, 20 hours per guest. I would listen to all their books. I would listen to all their interviews. Wow. I would take a whole week and study them. There was no video, so it was audio only, so I could have, like, lots of notes, and, like, I'd prepare like crazy.

Then, like, as I had a company, like, that had to change. Um, and it's, and I had a team that would help me. Now I use AI. Mm-hmm. And I upload transcripts. I [00:47:00] upload PDF books. I, I have, like, a, an app that helps me. Um, and I was going so crazy with the AI that, like, there was a period of time where, like, I'd come to the interview and I'd be like, "I just spent three hours using AI to prepare for this interview, but I don't feel prepared."

And it was just, like, really interesting, and then I had to say, "Okay, what am I doing wrong?" And now I've, I've created a new process where I, I do the stuff with AI, but then I put it in an app that I can listen to it, and I make sure that I do it before the interview so that in the morning of the interview for, like, while I'm getting ready and stuff, I'm just listening to everything to actually absorb what I did.

Jim Kwik: Nice.

Hala Taha: Yeah. You know? So that sort of helps, but I still feel like how do I, like... I'd love to hear your opinion on collaborating with AI- Yeah ... and how to make sure we're not outsourcing too much with AI.

Jim Kwik: I'm a, I'm a big fan of all, you know, of technology. You know, I [00:48:00] think AI is, uh... Th- this is, this is my take on it, and, you know, we, you know, our entire team uses it, obviously, also as well for v- you know, various responsibilities that we have.

And I, I would say AI's interesting, right? AI scales and it amplifies, but it only scales and amplifies what we bring to it, right? Yeah. And so I feel like AI, there's a whole fear and concern around that AI will replace us. What-- That's a different conversation, but if it's... I feel it will replace people who aren't using AI and also learning their own, you know, building their own human intelligence, right?

Mm-hmm. But I feel like it, the conversation's not so much will it replace us, but I-- definitely will reveal us.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Because if it's amplifying and scaling, what is it amplifying and scaling? If an entrepreneur brings chaos and confusion to AI, it's gonna magnify and amplify chaos and confusion. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Right? As opposed to an AI, uh, an entrepreneur who's bringing, uh, clarity and discernment. It'll give them, it'll scale that also. Like, AI [00:49:00] is no longer a competitive advantage 'cause everybody has access to it. We all have access to it, right? Yeah. Somebody could use AI to write a great social media post.

Wonderful. Somebody else could use AI to build the next billion-dollar venture, you know? And so it's, it's the human intelligence that you're bringing to it that determines the performance and the ultimate result. It's like, um, I get to work with a lot of athletes, the, the NFL, the NHL, the MLB, uh, F1 drivers, right, with reaction time, thinking speed.

Like, let's think about a, like, a, a race car, a multimillion-dollar piece of technology. It's a performance tool. That's AI. But it's the driver that determines its performance. Mm.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Right? 'Cause everybody could have access. You know- That's true. Yeah ... all of them have great cars. But it's the driver. It's their...

So I feel like my work is, whether I teach focus, memory, flow, habit, brain optimization, sleep, whatever, accelerated learning, speed reading, memory, all the stuff that we have on our online academy, it's meant to enhance human intelligence. I, I really do believe human [00:50:00] intelligence is more important than artificial intelligence because, again, it's...

AI could do amazing computation, pattern recognition, right? But ultimately, human beings, they decide what things mean out of the data. Mm-hmm. They, they decide what to focus on, on that data. They decide what, what to do with that data in terms of next steps. So it's the humans that are gonna... Like, it's like Iron Man's suit.

It's, it's like AI, but Tony Stark is just bringing a lot to it that he'll get, you know, bigger results. And so my focus, I feel like in a world of, you know, rapid change, accelerated- Mm-hmm ... technology and AI, I, I just don't want The dependence, right? Everyone's heard about the MIT study where students who are writing essays at college, they, you know, uh, they broke them down to A, B, C groups.

A, ChatGPT they used. Uh, B, uh, was Google. Mm. They used Google. And C, no technology. And when they tested them, and I'm summarizing this, you [00:51:00] know, group A didn't remember anything. Mm-hmm. Just similar to their experience with podcasts. Yeah. They didn't remember anything 'cause they didn't have to work for it, right?

Um, and also when they scanned brains, like the ones that actually did the work, produced it, they remembered and also not only that, but, but more of their, uh, cogn- uh, cognitive networks were just activated, right? And so I wrote about this in 2020 when the book came out, Limitless. I called it digital deduction.

So digital dementia is the higher reliance on technology to remember things. Yeah. Your to-dos, your calendar, your phone numbers. Like nobody wants to remember 500 phone numbers. But it should be very concerning to r- that we've lost the ability to remember one phone number or a pin number or passcode or something.

Yeah. Have you ever read a page in a book, got to the end, just forgot what you just read, right? That, that's, that's the kind of things we want entrepreneurs to be better at. Um, but digital deduction is the higher reliance on technology to think for us.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: I mean, even think previous be- be- before like, uh, think about GPS.

Like there was a time when we need to use our visual spatial intelligence instead of using a piece of technology to [00:52:00] tell us where and when to turn.

Hala Taha: Yeah. Now we can't go anywhere without it.

Jim Kwik: Right.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: And so that's the dependence on it. So this is the thing. Your brain, like even my shirt says use it, right?

Use it or lose it. So the idea here is your brain's like a muscle. It's an organ, but it acts like a muscle. You use it or lose it. But if you put your arm in a cast for a, a year, it wouldn't grow stronger. Mm-hmm. It wouldn't even stay the same.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: It would weaken and atrophy. Yeah. That's digital dementia and digital deduction.

So the idea here is I'm all for using technology, you know, but if it's doing all the thinking, so, you know, let it think, but let you, but we should think too.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? Let it help you to remember something, but you should still remember things also, you know? And so, you know, the problem is when we grab technology out of habit and, and without intention or without very...

Like we give our s- our minds prompts all the time. Like I'm, I'm very efficient with AI because I've, I've been giving my HI a lot of prompts like- Yeah ... you know, with the training. You know, the questions that we ask. Mm-hmm. You know, like questions like h- you know, I use this all the time in AI is like, you [00:53:00] know, "Explain this to me like I'm, I'm 10 years old."

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Right? That would be a way of summarizing difficult conversations with a podcast guest, or summarize this book certainly, right? Or also, you know, propose questions like, you know, "Give me five questions that, that this person's never been asked for public," you know, about publicly that my specific audience, you know, we've trained, you know, would, would, would really resonate with.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Um, but it also could be something like we could take all the principles in Limitless- You know, memory palaces, like, a- and, um, you know, space review. You know, it could quiz you, right? It could, every, you could schedule it. It could go be linked to your calendar and just said, "Let's do space repetition.

I wanna really understand this- Mm-hmm ... master this subject."

Hala Taha: So using AI to actually make sure that you know the material too. And- I do that too.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. It's like, literally there's a chapter in Limitless that says, you know, how to use AI to enhance your HI, taking those principles and translating it to be able to, to be able to quiz you, to be able to, to get you to rapid review to see what you know, to be able to...

You could say like, "Hey, mind map this subject for me, dot, dot, dot. Take notes and be able to show this," [00:54:00] the, you know. And then there's so many other things that you could do with it, and it's literally limitless. My thing is just you don't want, in a world of artificial intelligence, you don't want human intelligence to become artificial and, and not valuable, right?

And so I feel like there's human, certain human qualities that now more than ever, you know, like you even see, like, online, uh, with all the commencement speeches for graduation.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: And they mention AI, and then, like, the, there's all the-

Hala Taha: The people are really upset at, like,

Jim Kwik: there's a- And they're booing, and there's like all of that.

Hala Taha: Yeah. There's a really big movement out there- Yeah ... where people are really anti-AI, AI.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. It, it could be scary 'cause it's also people are losing their identity, right? If, if, if an AI could replace... I was just literally in a car where the, the, the, the, the, here in Austin, where the, where the U- where the Uber driver was just complaining the entire time about these Waymos that are going around- Mm

taking the jobs and da, da, da- Mm ... and all this other stuff. But that's, this is just the beginning of that.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? It's

Hala Taha: gonna

Jim Kwik: happen. And so I, I feel like AI is, is a tool that can magnify [00:55:00] or multiply, but it only magnifies, multiplies, and amplifies what we bring to it.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: And so I feel like even more than ever is it important to, to work on our own intelligence and see what we bring to it.

Hala Taha: I totally agree. I mean, like, I feel like we've all been kind of like, like AI has just been sort of thrown at us, and we, we've all had to experiment with it. I think it's good to kind of fail on your own with it like I did. Yeah. 'Cause you just, like, learn the hard way. Um, and then you're able to kind of guide also, like, your employees of how to use it better.

Something that I'm kind of going through right now, I've, I've implemented AI. I have 60 people on my team And so we did this whole AI training, and everybody has, uh, th-this program that basically uses Claude and ingests their email and their Slack, and everyone's, like, using AI really well. But at the same time, now everything I'm getting feels so AI generated, and I'm like, "You guys need to still use your brains."

Yes. Like, you know, this is not gonna cut it. Like my, my, uh... Somebody on my team sent me a sales deck [00:56:00] that I completely had to redo this weekend because it just was so obvious. Yeah. And like, she's so smart, and I'm like, "This is not the advice that you would be giving."

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: And like, "This is way too AI." And she's like, "Well, it really wasn't."

And I was like, "It was," like 'cause I can tell, right? So I guess, like what kind of human intelligence, like what are the characteristics that we should really focus on? And, and we talked about at-attention and memory- Yeah ... which I think just being charismatic is gonna help people- Yeah ... in the future.

Jim Kwik: Yeah.

Hala Taha: What else in terms of human intelligence, HI, should we be concentrating on?

Jim Kwik: I'd be thinking about curiosity, our ability to ask questions, and really good questions, especially in a world of AI, of AI and also of ourself is, is very important to be able to maintain that sense of wonder and that sense of awe.

You know, so curiosity, it would be on there. I think, uh, be very important to be able to do, uh, things like, uh, how would I, how would I say this? Uh, hold on.[00:57:00]

Let me pause for one second.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Sorry. Um-

All right. Uh, I could go, I could go in like three different directions with this

Hold on, give me one second.

Hala Taha: You're good, you're good. No, there's no rush for me.

Jim Kwik: How are you on time? What, where were we gonna go to?

Hala Taha: I'm good. Um, I was thinking to end at, like, 2:45, unless you need to end sooner.

Jim Kwik: No, no, no. No, we're, we're, we're, we're good. Okay, cool. Um, I w- I want this 'cause, 'cause this, we're, we're in the, kind of the home stretch.

I just want this to land.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Let me, um-

Hala Taha: The last question I'll ask you is, like, what do you imagine, like, 230- 2035, 6 being like? Or 2035, or 2036, let's say.

Jim Kwik: What, what about it? What's that

Hala Taha: look like? Like, what separates the people who become in, in this... Maybe I can a- maybe actually this is the same question, though

Jim Kwik: No reason[00:58:00]

Hala Taha: Yeah

Nobody knows what's gonna happen

Oh, the other thing I wanna ask you about before we end is like Um, you can tell me if you like this also. Like, I, I feel like s- doomscrolling is really a problem for people, and I just wonder if we can give people-

Jim Kwik: Yeah ...

Hala Taha: advice on-

Jim Kwik: We could do that.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: So let me, let me, like- Yeah ... maybe the editors could back up and just, uh, you could ask what makes us...

Okay, so you asked us what makes us uniquely human in a world of AI- Yeah ... and I can answer that. So they could edit that way.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Okay. Um, so what makes us human in a world of AI? I think this is the conversation. I think we're living in the conversation of our time right now, is how do we become, uh, how do we become deeply human in a world of, in an age of AI, right?[00:59:00]

Um, where everything feels artificial- Yeah ... or there's that AI slop that you're referencing, like, this feels like AI, and people get detected, right? Yeah. I think where we can lean into, a number of things. Um, curiosity, right? Curiosity sparks wonder. It asks better questions, not only of AI, but of ourselves also as well.

Uh, I would say leadership is huge. You know, our ability to influence and impact people around us- Yeah ... to inspire them. Uh, I think that's critical. That's a human quality. Um, I would say, let's say, uh, emotional intelligence-

Hala Taha: Mm ...

Jim Kwik: so very important, uh, because I think EQ is so important for interpersonal. Like EQ, uh, leadership is maybe external.

Emotional intelligence, self-reflection-

Hala Taha: Mm ...

Jim Kwik: right? Um, to be able to look within, to be able to reflect instead of react, and to have some kind of emotional regulation, you know, to be able to, to have, you know, that with others. Um, adaptability, [01:00:00] very... It's, I, I think it's human beings, that's our superpower, ability to adapt.

I think in a rapidly changing world, uh, our ability to learn, unlearn, relearn, to be able to adapt, learn new skills, that everything is figure-out-able is- Mm-hmm ... so very important. Um, you know, also, also as well. I mean, so it's like these are things that are, that I would love for people to, to lean into, into, into more.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: And, uh, and, you know, it's not always taught. You know, I mean, you could think about, you know... You can make, even make an acronym. You make a word like human, you know, H is heart for the emotional in- intelligence, you know, part, and you can kind of make, like, a whole thing. But it's just whether you use acronyms or mnemonics or, like, these stories, they're things that I feel that, um, again, that with what we bring to the AI that would make...

And just like it's, and, and techno- it's always been like that with technology.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? But my, my thing is not to be dependent on it, meaning that an elevator is a form of technology. If you, if your office is on the fourth floor, your [01:01:00] apartment's on the fourth floor, yeah, an elevator is very convenient, but then you don't get your steps in.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, you, if you take a, a Lyft to go to the bank eight blocks away, very convenient. It's a form of technology, but then we don't get our steps in, right? Mm-hmm. And so I feel like every day we can make it. Every moment we c- we have a chance 'cause we can make a new choice. Yeah. And so I like the balance of using it, um, but don't let it use you.

And not let our own gifts kind of atrophy.

Hala Taha: I wanna bring it back to something that you just mentioned where you saw these commencement speeches, and when people bring up AI- Mm-hmm ... they start to boo. I was actually pretty shocked, because for the last, like, two years I've been talking about AI on the podcast, and- Yeah

I'm kind of in this, like, entrepreneurship bubble where we embrace AI. We're, we're excited- Mm-hmm ... about AI. We see the opportunity, and of course there's some bad things with the environment for sure that they need to figure out. But I saw so much social content where people were just, like, badmouthing Mel Robbins, who I love, and Reese Witherspoon, and- Mm-hmm

all [01:02:00] these folks for telling women to start using AI and, and, and kind of, uh, making people know that women are less likely to use AI and why women really need to lean into it so we don't get left behind. And there was so much pushback from- Yeah ... women, um, who don't wanna use AI and refuse to use it. A- and it just made me feel really sad, 'cause I just feel like all these people are gonna be left behind because they think they're doing the righteous thing by not using AI, uh, when in reality I think that's gonna really hurt them in the future.

P- I personally feel that way. How do you feel about that?

Jim Kwik: I mean, the environment, n- the environmental concerns are- Huge ... you know, the, uh- Yeah ... that, that is... I mean, that could be f- a whole podcast on, on itself. So, you know, if we, if we s- to have the conversation if we separated that, you know- Yes ... or talk about it.

Um, technology has always been a tool, like the internet, right? Like a s- like a smartphone, like a printing press, you know, it's always there to be able to... It, it's, it, it's... We can't put it back into the box, right? Yeah. [01:03:00] The genie is out of the bottle, so it's, it's gonna be here. It's... It, it's a challenge. Just like with anything that we use, uh- You know, obv- obviously it'd be better if it w- if it was, you know, net, you know, net zero, you know, in terms of the impact that, that it, uh, the, the imprint it has on the environment.

So that, that, that a- that aside, you know, I, I feel like, yeah, some people are, are... I mean, think about the unknown, right? The unknown in the mind, the, the nervous system wants to protect itself, right? And it doesn't wanna waste a lot of energy. Anything that's new, like starting a business or talking to that person, you know, that fear that we have, that amygdala kind of fight or flight response is to kind of protect us, right?

It's to kind of keep things efficient, stable, 'cause change... But, but people don't talk about in the entrepreneurial space is that change is scary, right? And it could be AI, right? It could be the environment, it could be politics, political change, it could be market change in demand, supply, all these [01:04:00] different things, you know, threats, competitor threats or whatever.

Change can be scary. Growth can be hard. You know, it's hard to build two businesses to do what you've done, you know, with the podcast for the last eight years. People don't see what goes on behind the scenes. But nothing is as scary and hard as being stuck somewhere you don't, you don't belong. And so I don't know who needs to, to hear this, but I think life is hard for one of two reasons.

Either we're, we, we leave our comfort zone, you know, we take our business next level, we ask for the investment, whatever it happens to be, right? Um, or life's difficult 'cause we stay in our comfort zone, then life gets very, very difficult.

Hala Taha: Hmm.

Jim Kwik: You know, and AI is very disruptive. You know, it, you know, it changes people's...

It's not even just a different of, of workflow. It, it's also challenging and threatening People's identity.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: Like who they are. Mm-hmm. Right? Like if somebody, uh, as I'm using a random example, like if somebody's a, an artist, right? Mm-hmm. An AI's doing all this stuff, or someone's an attorney and you could have access to all the legal advice you [01:05:00] need- Yeah

or a therapist or you name it, like it could be pretty threatening when we've spent our whole life preparing for- Yeah ... you know, to be this person. This is who we are. And if a machine could do that, you know, what does that make me? Mm-hmm. You know, much less our self-confidence and self-esteem, our self-worth in a world of being relevant.

So that, that, that, that could be a friction for people adopting this. You know, also I also feel like, um, you know, I'm leaning into human intelligence, you know, regardless of what-- I've always done that, regardless of the technology, whether it's AI or something else, you know, a- as it evolves, just because it's, it's our agency.

Yep. You know? Like I, I really do believe... Even the book, when people see it, it's, it's purple. And by the way, I have 5,000 books and, like, I-- there's no purple books. So from a mindset standpoint, like, you know, I want it to stand on shelves, but also I want people-- it would stand on people's minds. Mm-hmm. Um, also purple psychology, uh, the words that always came up in color psychology, sovereignty- Mm-hmm

agency, [01:06:00] like an entrepreneur.

Hala Taha: Yep.

Jim Kwik: Um, you know, taking responsibility for their, you know, the direction of their life and their, um, and, uh, wisdom. So that, so I, I really color-coded this around, you know, people's-- putting people in the right state. Um- So I think part of it is the unknown that people are threatened to.

I think also not this unknown of what's happening outside, but, you know, their identity and self-perception i- is, is also threatening. And, um, and certainly there are other concerns, like, you know, I go back to the environment for sure. Um, so I, I, um, I think it's great that people can voice their concerns and we have dialogue about this- Yeah

right? Discourse about it. This is what... And, and it's challenging. Like, like I, I also was surprised when I, when people started sending me those commencement speeches 'cause the other thing is with this algorithm, I, I rarely see people that I follow on social media. I'm not on social media a whole lot.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: But I rarely see the people I follow. I just see whatever I engage with. So we all are training that algorithm-

Hala Taha: To show us

Jim Kwik: what we want ... with

Hala Taha: AI. Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, so there, there is an echo chamber there. So [01:07:00] like in entrepreneurship, everyone's a pro AI, so everyone, everyone's an AI expert and- Mm-hmm ... so on. And then, but you know, a lot of people, that's not where most people are living- Yeah

you know, certainly. And but I'm sure people felt the same way about cars.

Hala Taha: They did.

Jim Kwik: You know? And assembly lines, you know? And, and they will about s- you know, self-driving cars and, and everything else.

Hala Taha: And we just gotta adapt.

Jim Kwik: And that's the key is, is- That's really the key, we

Hala Taha: just have to adapt ...

Jim Kwik: and that's what human beings when they lean into it.

That, that's why I think all learning is all adaption. Your ability to adapt, you know, in new environments, to be able to learn, unlearn, relearn new skills, new ideas, new systems is, is makes us valuable, you know- Mm-hmm ... today. And not everyone will do it, but that's the opportunity for people that, that do. So, you know, I, I look at AI like a lot of tools.

Um, you know, it's using it, I see it some more than artificial intelligence, augmented intelligence. It's a partner for us to use, and you could use it in, I mean, there are limitless [01:08:00] ways to be able to use it, you know, for, as... And, and level, and it also levels the playing field, you know. I mean, I, I wish when I got started three, four years ago, there wasn't even the internet.

Yeah. You know, in ads. It's the easiest time-

Hala Taha: There was no email- ... to be an entrepreneur right now ... there was no nothing. My goodness, like- You can build your whole team with Claude. I,

Jim Kwik: I remember building our first course program in 2006, 2007. Like, it was like, you know how much camera equipment and everything else I had to do?

And how, how costly- Oh my- ...

Hala Taha: developers- ...

Jim Kwik: goodness ... and all these things ...

Hala Taha: a website- Yeah ...

Jim Kwik: was tens of thousands of dollars back then- Mm-hmm ... you know? And so the fact that you could build a brand Yeah, it's, it's exciting times. So I'm, I, I'm, I'm more of an optimist, you know- Same ... for, for things. But I'm also a realist, you know.

So we do the best we can with what we have, you know, and hopefully, you know, leave the, the world a better, br- brighter place.

Hala Taha: So I wanna ask you one last question, and- Do I remember the- ... this is really about, uh-

Jim Kwik: Do I remember the 10 things?

Hala Taha: No. You probably still do.

Jim Kwik: I do.

Hala Taha: Um, this is around brain rot. So brain rot was the word of the year, year by Oxford in 2024.

Oh. [01:09:00] And, um, I was reading some stats, and m- uh, millennials and Gen Z spend about five hours a day on their phone on average- Yes ... just for entertainment purposes. Like, so not just screen time for school and work. For- Mm-hmm ... for Gen Z, I think that's, like, eight hours if it's just screen time, but five hours a day for entertainment.

And that worries me because- ... um, that's a lot of time. Like, you can't focus or build something if you're spending five hours a day doom scrolling, and I just think it's a major problem. I also think task switching is a major problem. I find myself even, like, using two computers and, like, running an AI prompt- Mm-hmm

and then doing something else. Mm-hmm. Checking my AI prompt and, and then I realize, like, this is probably not effective, right? Right. Uh, so just help us understand as we close out this interview- Sure ... how can we retain our focus in, with, in this era of just so much distraction?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. [01:10:00] I'm gonna s- I'm gonna...

What I'm gonna say is gonna be really simple, and I'm not even suggesting it's easy. But, and take this with a grain of salt whoever's listening to this. Like, an entrepreneur or any individual, you can't be upset by the results you didn't get from the working into. And if you're spending eight hours doom scrolling and rotting your brain, and then have the audacity to complain that, "Oh, I went through this course," or, "I listened to this," or, "I have this mentor and a coach," and you're not doing it.

Like, the only thing we get, like, I think people need to work until their results speak for themselves. And I, I'm talk- I'm not talking... I've, I've gone through this path. We, we have a number of businesses, you know, and I advise some of the biggest ones. And I'm, and I'm just saying every day we have a chance 'cause we have a choice.

It is still a choice. But if, but if we repeatedly doom scroll, and we know we're doing it, then it is a choice, right? And so I'm not saying... We've all watched Social Dilemma and all, and we know that there are billions of dollars being [01:11:00] put into these platforms with the top neuroscientists, behavioral, behavioral, uh, scientists that make this addictive.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? And we all have heard stories about the, a lot of these founders, that they wouldn't let their kids on these platforms. Yeah. You know, and we know that if there's not a product there, then we are the product that they're selling to advertisers. We all know this. And I, we advertise, so I probably stalk a lot of you-

with our content and our s- and our, our courses. Um, so it's a tool that could be used for, in our opinion, to be able to, to, to impact. Um, you can only change your life in... So brain rot's a real deal, right? If you're feeding, we just talked about your brain and how it's being wired by our devices. Um, and you could scroll to infinity.

Um, and that's But, and that's fine. Who am I to jud- judge if somebody wants to do that? And do that, that's your prerogative. But if there's a gap between where you are and where you wanna be, you know, in your business or your bank account or the impact, your income or your influence, and we're spending a third of our day like on, on those [01:12:00] devices without any kind of results, then I would question how much you really want this.

And I feel, I still go back to agency and responsibility. You know, years ago I got to introduce two of my superheroes together. It was, um, Richard Branson and Stan Lee, uh, Stan Lee, like the late Stan Lee who created all the Marvel characters. Mm. And they wanted, they both mentioned each other, they wanna meet each other.

So we, you know, we go to dinner and I, I'm in the car and I asked Stan, I was like, "You created all these epic heroes. Who's your favorite?" And he says, "Jim, Iron Man." And, and then he says, "Jim, who's your favorite?" And he had, I posted this on social media, he had an Ir- in the backseat he had a, a Spider-Man tie, so I said, "Spider-Man."

And with, in his iconic voice with a pause, he goes, "With great power comes great responsibility, right?" Mm-hmm. And maybe 'cause I hit my head too much, I tend to sometimes reverse what I read or see, um, or hear. And I, and I said, "You're right. With great power comes great responsibility, Stan. And the opposite is also true.

With great responsibility comes great power." When we take responsibility for something, we have great power.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: So I don't think we have [01:13:00] to be super hard on ourselves. I think, uh, when we're compassionate, studies done in self-compassion say when you don't beat yourself up, when you're kind to yourself, you're more likely to make a positive change and follow through.

So it's like you miss your workout, you don't beat yourself up. You just say, "Hey, I'm human. I had a lot, kind of a really hard day." And you're more likely to follow through as opposed to like, you know, uh, be a critic for yourself. Same thing with doom scrolling, you know? And I would say like the first place to change is, is has to start with awareness.

You know, you look, you look at your screen time on certain devices and you can't deny that, you know? And then you say, "Is this getting me the results that I want?"

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: And if it's not, then you make a choice and it's your, it's their choice, their responsibility. They could either continue doing that and that's, that's fine, that's their choice.

But if they're looking to create something that requires time, energy, talent, you know, I would think like, "Oh, how do I repurpose this into getting what I want?" And it's hard. I'm not saying it's, change is h- is easy. But if it was easy, ev- like [01:14:00] everyone would just have like these great businesses- Yeah ... and everything.

Hala Taha: And part of it is changing your identity around it, correct? Because you are responsible to kind

Jim Kwik: of- It, it i- it is. Yeah. I, I, I would... The, the key, it's a habit, right? And we don't rise to the level of our goals. We fall to the level of our systems. I'll tell you, like we ri- we, we, we don't rise to the level of our goals.

We fall to the level of our standards that we have. Like if people said like, "I must make this amount a mo- like must"-

Hala Taha: Mm ...

Jim Kwik: like, or a loved one's like, you know, in jeopardy if they don't, like we will hit that standard. We fall to the level of our standards, our systems, and our self-image. Like, that, that, that's it.

And we control all three of them, you know? And so I feel like I'd be working if it... First you create your habits, then your habits create you. If you're spending eight hour, five to eight hours a day habitually picking up your phone mindlessly, then you need to interrupt that. Yeah. And the best way to do habit design, and we've had James Clear and BJ Fogg and, you know, Charles Duhigg, all the best, being on our podcast.

Same. You know, like it's, it's environmental [01:15:00] design. You can control your environment. Like, and I'm not saying this is easy, but like, don't have your phone by your nightstand. Put it in your, in your bathroom. The, the, the, the, the premise, the first principle of environmental design is you wanna make what's good for you easier, and you wanna make things that are not good for you harder.

Like, you're not gonna snack, if you don't have the junk food in your home, you're not gonna, it's, that you're changing your environment. Yeah. It's not gonna make it easy, right? If you take the app and you have to log in every single time into your, into your apps or reinstall it, it's not gonna be easy.

It's not gonna be worth it. And that's how you change that. And then your identity changes once your behavior changes. Mm. Because you create evidence that you are the person that you say you are. And I, I think that's so very important, you know, that you are, you don't see yourself as this, a procrastinator or whatever it is.

You see yourself as somebody who gets things done. And you create evidence, like real world evidence that, you know, validates that. But I would, I would say we make a choice. Like, there are only four choices you can make, right? Again, life is the letter C between B and D. B is [01:16:00] birth, D is death, life's C, choice.

We always have that choice. That's the sum total of everything. And your only four choices you can make to make, make your business better, your brain better, your body better, your life better. Stop something, start something, do less of something, do more of something. That's it. 'Cause the fifth thing is do nothing.

That's insanity, expecting different results. So you stop Stop checking your phone first thing in the morning. Start, uh, a meditative process which trains your focus so you're not gonna be as addicted. Uh, you know, you can pull your focus back when you need to. Do less of something. Do less, um, binge-watching stuff or, or doom scrolling, and do more movement, right?

Like, it's just, it's, it's so simple. I'm not saying easy.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: But it is so simple. Like, we know what to do. We're not doing what we know. Like, common sense is not common practice. That's why these conversations are so important because who's, who's talking about these kind of things, right? That gives people, like, some insight and some inspiration to say, like, "Oh, I'm gonna make a new choice today."

Yeah. And just, if you're going this way, you take ... Like, every morning, for example, when ... The reason why this book is so [01:17:00] important, I think, and that special time- Yeah ... was disproportionate

Hala Taha: time. That was one of my favorite things that we learned today.

Jim Kwik: Yeah, like, uh, 'cause when you wake up, you're getting into an airplane, metaphorically, and you're, you're going through the day to a destination.

Now, like, the first thing the pi- like, when you get in a plane, they set the course to go to the city. If you're off course just 1%, over time, over the length of that flight or that 24 hours in that day, you could end up in a different city or country. Mm-hmm. Just a 1% shift. And sometimes when you get on that plane, you maybe are the passenger and there's turbulence.

What's the turbulence? It's distraction. It's your phone. It's y- energy vampires. It's other people's expectations, right? Shakes it up. Or some people are, are allowing the plane to be hijacked, and they're just taking ... That person who's leading is just directing your course to wherever they want it to go.

You know, my work with this book is like, "Hey, let's walk to the cockpit together. You're sitting down. You are the pilot of your mind today." Mm-hmm. "And we're gonna set the course, uh, of where we're gonna [01:18:00] go." Like, like, for example, like, that, that window again that you get disproportionate amount of, like, results for the rest of the day with the mental input.

Same thing with physical input. If s- if you woke up and the first thing you did was eat a bunch of junk food and donuts and everything else- Mm. Sugar ... first thing you do.

Hala Taha: Glucose rollercoaster.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And then that would have disproportionately affect the rest of your day. Yeah. Your focus, your mood, how you feel about situations because you're in that crummy mood.

I mean, think about, like, the mental diet that you have first thing in the morning.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: You know, people wouldn't doubt it. So, like, like, why would you start your day with confusion and, and doom scrolling and violence and leads it leads and, like, everything that, comparison and all the other stuff.

Hala Taha: Yeah.

Jim Kwik: Right? And but we choose to do that because we're letting the technology use us, and then we become the tool. And, uh, I don't, I don't know. And maybe I'm a little bit, you know, passionate about this because I, I see the effects on mental health- Yeah ... you know, especially for younger generations. You know, they're scoring less in aptitude tests academically also, but mental health, you [01:19:00] know, is surpassed like can't...

offered the biggest challenge that people are facing. Yeah.

Hala Taha: I think it's tough though because I think we are consuming so much content that feels really important right now. I- you said you don't go on social media.

Jim Kwik: I, I, I, I do.

Hala Taha: You do. Just not,

Jim Kwik: not as-

Hala Taha: Well, like I think a lot of people i- in like Gen Z, Millennials, we're like consumed with things like- The wars going on, the Epstein files, the aliens now, the, like, we're getting, like, bombarded with all this craziness that seems so important to know about that it's so hard to, to turn it off.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. And again, I'm not who, who ... You know, I'm, I'm not any more important than people to say that this is important or not. Yeah. So people can decide what's important. You know, like, for, for me, I think it's all that could be important, and, and it is, but there's gotta be some kinda stopgap in terms of- Yeah

where you can't possibly- 'Cause you

Hala Taha: only have so much mental bandwidth, right, throughout the day

Jim Kwik: And then

Hala Taha: the,

Jim Kwik: the result, the result is [01:20:00] this burnout, you know, there's digital depression, there's d- like, all the, the brain rot- Yeah ... everything else like that. So it's interesting. There's this dichotomy, the polarity where, you know, sometimes you put limits to become more limitless.

Just like y- as an entrepreneur, like, or even writing this book, I ha- I had a deadline that I had to hit. So when there's a constraint of time or money or whatever, then you, what does it do? It forces human intelligence. It forces curiosity. It forces concentration. It forces commitment-

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm ...

Jim Kwik: to be able to do that.

So a limit makes you more limitless.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Go beyond what you normally do 'cause it's just gonna fill the space. If I had two years to do it, I would take two years, right? But I would say putting borders and boundaries around your mental health, your time, the things that you value, I think is, is, that would be my focus because I can't affect w- if people choose to put their, their attention to things, I would just say as long as you're doing something about it.

'Cause otherwise, what are we doing? Then we're indulging and getting- Mm ... in the storyline, but if we're not doing something about it, then the net effect is nothing just because we could [01:21:00] spend an inordinate amount of time spiraling, you know, in our own mental health and challenges. Yeah. I'm not saying turn a blind eye.

But if you're gonna do that, then you might as well get- But- ... do something- Yeah ... with that energy and that knowledge, you know. And it's, it's challenging. For entrepreneurs, other people who take approach like, "I can't change the personal economy, but I can focus on my personal economy." Mm. "I'm not gonna change the healthcare system, but I can focus on my family's health, you know, and- Mm

and wellness also." Mm-hmm. And so people take that approach. But I think we make the choices, and that's the, you know, it, it's a system of control because this technology could, it will eventually, you know, whether it's controls us, but putting borders and boundaries and stopgaps, I think, is important, especially around the things you value, your time, your energy, your emotions.

You know, maybe there's some people in our lives that might not be nurturing to, you know, us and who we are- Yeah ... at this point in time. But, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of important things that are going on. I'm not saying don't focus on them. I'm just saying for what result, you know. But if you're gonna do something with it, yeah, please.

Yeah. We need more people who are gonna do great [01:22:00] things, you know, and, and help us in the situations that we're in. Yeah. You know? And, but, but I know my energy, my time, for example, is finite, so I'm gonna focus on what I could control- Mm-hmm ... and where I can impact the most, you know, for things. Um, but it als- doesn't mean, you know, I, I like to pay attention.

Yeah. I like to know what's going on, but also there's come a point where I can't pay attention to everything.

Hala Taha: Yeah, you don't need to pay attention for five hours a day. Right. Right?

Jim Kwik: Yeah, I, I could I kill you.

Hala Taha: Yeah. Um, okay, so Jim, this was an awesome conversation. Yeah, I feel- I feel like I could talk to you forever, but I'm gonna end the show with two questions I ask all my guests.

Jim Kwik: Okay.

Hala Taha: The first one is, uh, doing something actionable today. So what is one actionable thing- Yeah ... our young and profiters can do to be more profitable- Yeah ... tomorrow? We did talk about first 15 minutes in the morning and, like, capitalizing on that.

Jim Kwik: Sure.

Hala Taha: Is there anything else from this new Limitless Daily book?

Jim Kwik: Yeah. I would, I would focus on... Okay, so let's go back to that. Even if you don't read Limitless Daily in that window first thing in the morning, which would be, which I- would be great, a gratitude [01:23:00] practice would put you in that state, right? People could list three things that they're most grateful for, come from that place, 'cause that'll set the tone for the rest of the day.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: They'll, they'll tend to see things that they're more grati- you know, more grateful for, right? And which leads to more opportunities. Um, I think if anyone wants to feel wealthy, just count all the things you have in your life that, that money can't buy, right? Yeah. There's so many, like, things. Like, we wouldn't trade, you know, maybe some of your senses or some of your lim- whatever for amount of money, and that's, that's a good place to come from, that we were- we are already blessed.

If you're listening to this, able to watch this, you're probably more abundant than 99% of the population. Um, the other thing you could do is, like, I do this thought experiment where I'll sit in bed, and I'll imagine in those first few minutes, fast-forward, I'll do this mental experiment where I'll travel through time, and I'll imagine myself getting into bed that night.

And maybe somebody asks me or my wife asks me, like, "How was your day?" And I was like, "Today was amazing. Oh my God," like, da, da, da. And then I ask myself, what had to happen in order for me to feel that way? And I think of three things personally, three things [01:24:00] professionally, and they don't have to be huge things.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Three things personally, three things professionally, and those six things become my focus for the day. That becomes this, like, I'm getting on the plane, these are the things I wanna be able to hit. Because I'm not gonna get through that 200 to-do list, right? Yeah. And none of them are relevant. So I think about things that, that, uh, that are le- lead dominoes that if I did that, it makes everything else easier.

You know, I think a lot of the treasure entrepreneurs seek is hidden in the work that they're avoiding. I don't know who needs to hear this- ... but that conversation you need to have, or the, that step that you need to take, that commitment. Um, um, but I would, I would plan with the end in mind. So, you know, instead of being reactive and then touching your phone, do something with that for a few minutes.

And, uh, 'cause I mention in the book, but do, do grad school process or think about your three most important things to achieve that day. And I wouldn't just be thinking about the end result. I'd be thinking about, like I don't even, when I do goal-setting, I do something called future episodic remembering, where my goal is so vivid it's as if I'm [01:25:00] remembering it happened.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? Like I could d- I could, I could imagine it as real as what I had for breakfast this morning, right? So there's, and that's one of the entries in the book, right? And so there's 366 of those in five minutes to just 5X your day. But I would also, when you're thinking about that thing, like when you're thinking about goal-setting, I would think about not so much, I think people make the mistake of just obsessing about that goal and visualizing that goal, that, and getting that award or hit, having, seeing that money in their bank account, whatever it is.

I'd be obsessing rehearsing what it took to get you there.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: What are the habits where it's naturally gonna happen?

Hala Taha: It's the daily, it's the daily differences that you make, not just the

Jim Kwik: one thing. Because your mind, it's so crazy. Like, like so many people are rehearsing and reviewing through anxiety of the future or, you know, or worry of future of something that happened in the past.

They're, they're rehearsing failure in their mind, like with their fu- what they're repeating over and over again what they don't want to happen. And regardless of the, you know, laws of attraction and quantum physics, forget about that, we are literally wiring our [01:26:00] minds to be able, whatever we do repetitively, we get better at.

And so what I'd be thinking about, yes, you could acknowledge that that's, this is the goal. I would be reviewing like the night before, that morning of if I'm writing, me going to my computer, opening it up, and start typing. I would be repeating that. Mm. So there's zero friction for me to do it- To do the hard things, yeah

because I've just done it 100 times in my head.

Hala Taha: Mm.

Jim Kwik: Right? Like I don't, like I go on stages. I've been on 2,200 stages, quarter million people every single year as an introvert, you know, but I practice in my mind like 200,000 times, right? And so we, I think we wanna get really... The other t- technique, uh, thing I would mention for people watching, besides using that high leverage time window first thing in the morning to do something th- than touching your phone or whatever, I would be doing mental rehearsal around the th- the habits that will get you where it's gonna happen naturally and effortlessly.

It's like undeniable that this will happen if you did this. Mm. I'd be rehearsing that.

Hala Taha: Mm. [01:27:00] Okay, my last question to you is what is your secret to profiting in life? And because I've asked you this a few times, let's put it profiting in life this year.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. So when we talk about the treasures of our life, that some of them could be financial- Yeah

you know, certainly. Um, not everyone measures it based on, on things, and people sometimes get in depression of comparison online and, you know, it's... I just wanna remind people it's, the grass is greener where you water it. And online there's a lot of, there's a lot of artificial turf. You know, there's a lot of filters being used, so it's not always what we see that we're comparing our lives, you know To something, uh, so or somebody else.

Um, in terms of profiting, you know, we, we measure... The, it's, it's right now, in terms of my professional life, it's all about this book, you know? This book has, uh, the potential to reach a lot of people, you know, um, [01:28:00] even millions more. This book, uh, uh, everyone was asking after Limitless, which is, like, dense, like how to learn.

It's an owner's manual for your brain, all the things that you'll learn how to remember things, like names and everything else like that, speed read everything in that book. But people are like, "How do you break this down into something that's really simple?" So that's why this Limitless Daily, right? Um, I think books changed my life.

When I, when I was growing up, I couldn't read. Uh, I never finished a book cover to cover. My teachers would've been surprised if I read a book, much less wrote books.

Hala Taha: Mm-hmm.

Jim Kwik: Um, but it's just a reminder that I don't know one strong person that had an easy life. That adversity can be an advantage for anyone struggling right now with business or something else.

Um, I would say that what lights me up, I could think of a lot of other ways of making money. I know enough people, um, but you know, I, I choose this path because how I measure profit, you know, this whole idea is like a millionaire is help- someone who's helped a million people. You know, a billionaire is someone who'll be able to support a billion people.

Yeah. You know, and, uh, my goal for [01:29:00] decades has been one billion brains. You know, no brain left behind. Mm-hmm. And I'm hoping this book is a big, uh, leverage point for us to be able to, to go on, I mean, you know, quality media like this and, and share it with more people who are struggling right now. You know, whether it's in AI or their identity or imposter syndrome.

I literally took the biggest issues that people face when we polled our community also, which is sizable, and did an entry on each of these things: frustration, overload, procrastination. You, you know, why, why can't I get myself to do what I need to do? Um, focus, overload, everything, just did an entry. And, uh, it, it, it's fun.

I, I, I think it's a wild ride.

Hala Taha: Yeah. Well, this was such a great way to end the interview, and I'm so excited for Limitless Daily. Like, I'm gonna do it every day once

Jim Kwik: I get a copy. Yeah, we're gonna do a whole, we're gonna do a whole 366 challenge, so it's great 'cause everyone has a date, and it has all this, so everyone's gonna be on the same page.

So we'll do lives around it. Ex-

Hala Taha: when does it come out?

Jim Kwik: And it's coming out in September.

Hala Taha: Amazing,

Jim Kwik: so. So we're, we're so, we're so pumped, so I, [01:30:00] I appreciate the conversation. This was fun.

Hala Taha: It was.

Jim Kwik: Yeah. I think- Thanks

Hala Taha: for coming on.

Jim Kwik: Oh, thank you everybody for watching. I challenge everybody to do one thing. Take a screenshot wherever you're consuming this right now, and tag us both so we get to see it.

Yeah. And share one thing that you're gonna do based on this conversation. Just one thing. Maybe you're gonna stop something, start something, do less of something or do more of something. Because one of the best ways of learning anything, you can be public about it certainly, it's for accountability, but it's to teach it to somebody else.

That way you put it out there, and then your fans, your followers, your family, your friends get to, uh, get the benefit also. So thanks for having me.

Hala Taha: Thank you, Jim. Thank you for joining us on Young and Profiting podcast.

Cool. Great job.

Jim Kwik: Thank you.