Hala Taha: [00:00:00] 

Hala Taha: Hello, young and Profits. Most businesses fight for attention, but the most successful ones command it. The secret is conviction. In this app, classic interview, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Kelly Roach, a powerhouse marketing coach that I look up to who knows exactly what it takes to make a brand truly stand out in today's crowded marketplace.

Hala Taha: Kelly has helped countless businesses break free from generic cookie cutter strategies by embracing bold, authentic messaging that commands attention. She believes that the secret to powerful marketing isn't just tactics, it's conviction. In this episode, Kelly shared some actionable strategies for infusing emotion into your brand.

Hala Taha: Creating marketing that deeply resonates and building an audience that's not just engaged, [00:01:00] but fully invested in your mission. Believe me, you don't wanna miss this conversation. Here's my interview with the amazingly talented Kelly Roach. 

Hala Taha: I wanna take a step back and really talk about your childhood and your upbringing. So my team did some research and they told me that you were raised in a family of five.

Hala Taha: Your family was basically on the poverty line. You were always working to make ends meet. You were cleaning toilets to pay for dance lessons after high school. You attended a local college and continued to work while you studied and danced. So let's talk about this because obviously hard work was instilled.

Hala Taha: In you at a young age. So talk to us about the value of hard work and who you are today and how putting in the reps really helped you as an adult. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, the number one thing that I learned, you know, in my life is that if there's something that you don't like, change it. And that hard work makes absolutely any [00:02:00] dream achievable.

Kelly Roach: And you know, growing up I had lovely parents. My parents are wonderful people, but my dad worked for a nonprofit. My mom was a stay at home mom. 'cause there was five kids. It would've been more expensive to put us in daycare than it would've been, obviously, to have her home with us. And my dad really had a false belief system that in order to make a difference serving for this nonprofit, you know, that we basically had to struggle.

Kelly Roach: He couldn't give back and make great money too. And I believe that that was a false belief system. And I decided to set out on a course in my life to both do good and create wealth. And that's what I've done for myself is what I teach other entrepreneurs to do. But you know, not having a fallback position, not having, you know, uh, wealth in my family, getting a lot of nos growing up actually was the greatest service I ever could have had because it really taught me the importance of not giving up and being willing to work towards goals over a period of years.

Kelly Roach: You know, I think one of the, [00:03:00] the biggest misconceptions that really holds people back from accomplishing their dreams is this perception that success happens quickly or happens overnight, right? And I always say, you know, every overnight success is 15 years in the making. It doesn't matter whether you've been working towards that particular success for 15 years.

Kelly Roach: There were so many things that you were working to become as a person that led you to that success. And that's why we have to make sure that we don't get caught up in people's highlight reels. We need to like run our own race. You know, own the lane that we're in kind of thing, you 

Hala Taha: know? Yeah, 100%. I love what you said around your mindset, around money and how you kind of broke that generational curse that your, you know, your parents had.

Hala Taha: They met well, but they just didn't have the right mindset about money. And a lot of people think money is bad, but money is good. You know? The more money you have, the more you can give and, and help the world. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, and I mean, that's not, that's just not a nice saying that you and I are tossing back and forth because we run [00:04:00] successful companies.

Kelly Roach: I've actually researched it. I actually own my own philanthropic foundation that I used to give back that I'm able to now, uh, on, you know, when I was growing up, we were on the receiving end of charity all the time. We didn't have any money, so we couldn't do anything to help anyone else. Now I get to be on the other side of it because I've created wealth for myself.

Kelly Roach: And if you research, it's the wealthiest people in the world that do the most good. Why? Why is that? Because they're the people that have disposable income that they can use to give back and do things for other, if you're using every dollar that you make just to get by, then obviously it makes it pretty much impossible to do for others.

Kelly Roach: And so we have to really shift this paradigm around money and we have to really break this silo mentality of like, you can do good or you, you know, you can give back or you can have a lot of money. You can focus on being a good person, or you can focus on being wealthy. You know, I believe that our generation is the first generation that is really showing like.

Kelly Roach: These [00:05:00] entrepreneurs that are so dedicated to philanthropy, to giving back, to creating positive change in the world. But again, the reason why we're able to do that is that we've been able to create wealth for ourselves, which enables us to then serve and give back and, and be, you know, uh, on the, the giving side of philanthropy.

Hala Taha: 100%. I totally agree. So let's fast forward to you graduating college. You landed a job at a Fortune 500 company and then you quickly rose up the ranks and became one of the youngest VPs of the company, or the youngest VP to ever work at that company. So talk to us about your experience in corporate, how you rose up the ranks so quickly, and why you decided to eventually start your side business.

Hala Taha: Uh, Kelly Roach Coaching. Yeah, absolutely. Kelly Roach coaching. Sorry. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, I mean, graduating from college, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was like, I don't wanna sit in spreadsheets. I love people and I wanted to get into a big company because I wanted to create financial freedom for myself.

Kelly Roach: And I knew I had the work [00:06:00] ethic and the hustle. I knew I could learn. So I was like, I'm just gonna, you know, join this company. Started in that entry level position and I was literally the first one in and the last one out. Every single day I showed up for work, even in my most entry level job with no money in a suit, hair and makeup, like ready to take on the world every single day.

Kelly Roach: And you know, over a period of years I was promoted seven times in eight years, and I ended up building a team of a hundred people. So I started off with, you know, one branch with zero staff, zero database. Complete turnaround. Hired one person and then ultimately built a team of a hundred across 17 locations.

Kelly Roach: And you know, we, we broke every record for growth in the company's history. And I have never claimed and will never claim to be that it was talented. I'm certainly not the smartest. I was like a B student and I tried really hard. I know a lot of cool entrepreneurs are like, I never showed up for class and I was a horrible student and blah, blah, blah.

Kelly Roach: I actually tried, I just wasn't very smart. I was like in [00:07:00] math tutoring and like getting up at five in the morning to study. I just, some people have book smarts, some people have street smarts. I was always more of a common sense type person, but that has actually served me really well. So I, I rose through the corporate ranks, you know, did that whole thing.

Kelly Roach: My, my big dream was like, I wanna be this corporate executive. I wanna be in the boardroom and on the planes and, you know, running all the things and, you know, it was an awesome dream. It was a great ride. Um, I went through a lot. I had a lot of people that were like, who is this young kid that thinks she's gonna come in here?

Kelly Roach: So that was. That was very interesting. Uh, it was not an easy rise. Um, I went through a lot, including people that I personally like, mentored and promoted and, and really cared for, like turning on me and stabbing me in the back. And that's all par for the course, right? We all go through that stuff. But, um, you know, I got to the top and I had met Billy, who is now my husband.

Kelly Roach: We've been together for 16 years now. And, you know, we really started thinking about like, what do we want our [00:08:00] life to look like, you know, what do we want our priorities to be as a family? And, you know, I, I. Got really clear, you know, I, I wanted to have financial freedom. I wanted flexibility. I wanted to be able to travel and, you know, I wanted to be able to put my family first.

Kelly Roach: And I was like, that's not happening. You know, working in a job right. For someone else. So I decided to really look at what skills did I possess? What was I good at? You know, how did I feel like I could make a difference? And the number one thing that I had learned during my time in corporate was business growth strategy.

Kelly Roach: Like I really understood better than anyone I had ever seen how to look at a scenario and identify the fastest, most efficient way to take a losing situation and make it a winning one. And, and I was really passionate about helping people reach their potential. It was really just those two things. And I was like, I'm gonna go and bring this business education.

Kelly Roach: To small business owners, right? Because 85% of businesses still fail. Why do? Why do they [00:09:00] fail? Not because the business owner isn't working their tail off, not because the business owner doesn't have a great idea or doesn't have the energy, the passion, but because most small business owners have no business education, and I'm not talking about going to business class, okay?

Kelly Roach: I'm talking about real world business skills, the ability to understand the mechanics of how a well run company operates. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do this. So I went to my boss and I said, listen. A top performing executive in the company. And I said, Hey, listen, I'm not making enough money here and I'm gonna start my own company.

Kelly Roach: And I said, I'm gonna do it at night and I'm gonna do it on the weekend. And I said, and I'm going to continue to be the top performing executive in the company. And I said, you can fire me right now on the spot if you want to. 'cause I, I understand you have the right to do that. I'm not gonna hide anything.

Kelly Roach: But I said, this is what I'm doing. And he said, okay. So I stayed there. I built my business at night, [00:10:00] on the weekends, um, built the business to pretty much the million dollar mark while still working full-time as a corporate executive. And then, you know, eventually made the leap once the business was, you know, really successful, had a staff and all of that, you know, now a multi big figure company.

Kelly Roach: But so many lessons. I mean, I, I think the biggest thing is just, you know, for anyone listening, you know, if you are willing to work at something over a period of years, you can accomplish anything. Patience is the number one thing that kills people's dreams. They're not willing to work hard enough, long enough at the same thing we expect overnight sensation, overnight success.

Kelly Roach: I had someone say to me the other day, I've been working at this thing in my business for, for three months and I'm just not getting traction. And I actually started laughing. I was like, and talk to me in a year and a half. Like, like whatcha talking about? Right. And it was one of the things that really shocked me when I entered the business coaching space because I saw [00:11:00] that there were so many people promising to teach people how to start and grow businesses in like three weeks or less.

Kelly Roach: They're like six weeks, like laptop lifestyle, like, you know, whatever. And I'm. I don't think that's how it works, building a company. But, uh, yeah, so that's just a little bit about my story. 

Hala Taha: Oh my gosh. So inspiring and we have so many parallels to our story. I mean, my audience knows my story well, but I mean, I also, you know, when the corporate rose up the ranks started my podcast and my business didn't quit my corporate job until I had 35 employees and was making 80 grand in revenue a month.

Hala Taha: You know, same thing, like, just waited until there was absolutely no risk and worked morning nights, weekends. Lunchtime anytime I could. But the key is, and and you said it, is that you've gotta work both jobs just as well. You can't go start a side hustle if you're gonna, you know, slack on your day job.

Hala Taha: That's not how it works. You've gotta do both equally. And to your point, if you're not willing to sacrifice in the short term, it's not gonna work out. You're gonna have to sacrifice, [00:12:00] put in the time if you do wanna go this side hustle route, which is like the least form of risk when it, when it comes to starting your own business.

Hala Taha: So I'd love for you to talk about that time sacrifice and how you managed your time working in corporate and building this huge business that you put together. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, absolutely. And I just wanna circle back on your point there really quickly, because you know, there's this huge idea in the personal development world of like, burn the bridges, quit your job.

Kelly Roach: Like look what's happening right now. The great resignation, everyone's quitting and no one has a job, and no one has a plan. And everyone's gonna go spend their life savings and they're gonna be broke and they're gonna be even more depressed and they're gonna be starting their life over. 'cause they didn't put the thought into what's my plan?

Kelly Roach: The best thing I ever did was keep my corporate job while I built my business. It's why I have this beautiful, robust, amazing company that I have today, because I didn't have a sense of this desperation that you see in the online marketing world. I mean, people are so desperate, that's why they can't build a great [00:13:00] company.

Kelly Roach: It's like, this has to work, this has to, like, I I, I can't tell you how many people I come across that wanna come into my programs that are like, and this has to produce. And I'm like, no. No, like don't bring that energy up in here. Like you're responsible for setting up a situation in your life that you can sustain.

Kelly Roach: So I just wanna point that out because you mentioned that Hala, and I think that's really important. Like smart people have a plan, smart people have patience, right? You don't need to go burn the bridges and Oh, oh, and by the way, and I'll mention one more thing. I am going back and facilitating as a guest trainer for the Fortune 500 that I worked at for 10 years.

Kelly Roach: They now bring me back to literally do trainings for their entire leadership team on the, the east coast from, uh, you know, the most northern point down into the, the Carolinas. So isn't that full circle? So don't burn the bridge. Don't burn the boat, [00:14:00] have a plan, be patient. Right? So you asked about how I spent my time.

Kelly Roach: So basically I would do an hour to two hours in the morning before work. I would go out on my little Jeep Liberty on my lunch break, and I would literally make my sales calls, um, on my lunch break. And then I would do my client calls at seven and eight o'clock at night every night. And then I would work on the weekends.

Kelly Roach: And, um, it's the best thing I ever did because it actually taught me how to build a million dollar business while only working in my business about 20 hours a week. And it really taught me to be disciplined, to be focused, to understand. Where I should and shouldn't be spending my time. And it's really such a gift because now I have a family.

Kelly Roach: I have a 7-year-old now. I run a multiple eight figure company and I have so much time freedom with my family because I built a business where I have, and you've done our, our stories are like eerily similar. Very similar. You have a very large team. I do as well. That was also a very intentional part of the design of [00:15:00] my business and my brand, I'm sure with you as well.

Kelly Roach: But like I start my calls at 11 o'clock every day. Like I can take off when my daughter is off. I go to the beach a couple times a week with my family. Now I work my tail off. I'm not gonna pretend for a single second. And I don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying. I work my tail off. Okay. But what I'm saying is, is.

Kelly Roach: I have discipline around where I spend my time, which allows me to be intentional and allows me to put my family first. And I was able to design a business that worked that way because I was working full-time in my job. And because I sustained the position as the number one performer in my company while I was building my own business, which was a huge integrity thing for me to make sure that my results in my fulltime job didn't suffer.

Hala Taha: Oh my gosh. So many lessons that you're pouring out right now. The one thing that I really [00:16:00] hear is that you sacrificed in the short term for the long term, and you created freedom for yourself, and you still work really hard. But the, the difference is that you can decide, I'm gonna take a vacation, I'm gonna work here, I'm gonna start late.

Hala Taha: I'm gonna go to my, you know, daughter's dance recital. You don't have anybody kind of telling you what to do, and you're in control of your life. And you did that through sacrifice and calculated risk. You didn't just, you know, jump the gun and just go for it and have no plan. And also the fact that you built a team, you know, I'm sure even in that side hustle period, you were building your team and scaling and figuring all that parts out too.

Hala Taha: So I'd love to talk to you about how you built that team, even when it was just a small business. 

Kelly Roach: Oh, I started right away. Uh, very much like you. I, I think I, I had like over 30 team members while I was still working full-time. I don't even think they knew, but, you know, because I was so structured and so disciplined with how I was doing things like, and just so intentional about [00:17:00] it.

Kelly Roach: But, but to your point about sacrifice, so much sacrifice. And the thing that's so interesting is people see people like us. I came from a family with no money, nothing. Right? I came from nothing. Billy came from nothing, my husband. So we're like this like phenomenon in our family. And people look at us and they're like.

Kelly Roach: People change how they see you, friends, family, colleagues, um, even your clients as you rise through the ranks and they make these assumptions about what your life is like or what your life must be like. And you know, it's funny because I'll hear Billy talking to people all the time and I'll be like, no, you don't understand.

Kelly Roach: Like she was working at five o'clock in the morning every day for 15 years. Like this didn't just like happen. Yes, exactly. Exactly. This is 18 hour days. Mm-hmm. There was no spontaneous combustion. Like this was sacrifice. Over years and years and years because I had my eye on the prize and I knew what kind of life [00:18:00] that I wanted to create and build.

Kelly Roach: And Billy sacrificed too. I mean, he's been home with Madison since she was born. So we've been a one income family, um, you know, since Madison was born because our priority was we wanted her to be home. We didn't want her in daycare. And it's amazing because even that sacrifice of like him, like really he was, he's a musician.

Kelly Roach: He completely put his career on hold, has been totally focused on Madison since she was born. And the payoff from that sacrifice has been massive because I see her and she is like confident. She is like, she's a leader, she speaks articulately. Like you can just see in everything about her being like, yeah, that sacrifice is gonna pay off for the rest of her life.

Kelly Roach: So, you know, I just wanna encourage everyone that's listening like. You know, it can be terrifying. And it can also feel, it can feel discouraging to make these sacrifices, knowing that there's no promise of reward in the near term. And the biggest thing I wanna say to people is [00:19:00] like, these sacrifices that you make in the short term, the payoff is so much bigger and so much better than you can ever imagine.

Kelly Roach: Like, looking back on my life now at the sacrifices that I made to get to where we are today, I would do it a hundred times over. I would not change a single thing. Every sacrifice is worth it. The, the times in which it's not worth it is where you start down the path and then you quit because you just threw it all away.

Kelly Roach: And, and that, that's what happens with a lot of people. It's like they'll sustain for the, the short term but not the long term. And then that little bit of progress that they had made. Goes away. And it's like you start over from nothing, right? So these, these are the distinctions. Like you have to think about your life in the long term of what you want your life to be like in five, 10, and 15 years.

Kelly Roach: And you have to be making decisions today for 15 years from now. You know? And I know no one wants to hear that, but I'm a truth teller and I'm gonna be the one say, no, you really, [00:20:00] you really do. Because there's nothing you're gonna do 15 years from now that's gonna dramatically change what your life experience is in that moment.

Kelly Roach: Those decisions are happening now. And that, that's what we all have to recognize. 

Hala Taha: Oh my gosh. Amen. I totally agree with that. Um, so let's get into your new book, conviction Marketing, because I loved your book. I, you know, just ran through it. I'm a marketer myself and so I, when I like marketing book, I feel like it means a lot because I consider myself to be a great marketer.

Hala Taha: So great job on the book. It comes out February 22nd. And what was the genesis of the book? Why did you decide to write it? Yeah, 

Kelly Roach: I decided to write the book actually. And it's so interesting. I started writing this book before the pandemic and things got so crazy the last couple years actually, that we had to push back the launch like twice.

Kelly Roach: We actually, our company grew quite a bit over these last two years, and so I needed to really focus on the team and. [00:21:00] I saw that there was just a crisis going on online with online marketers, like an identity crisis. And I started to see a lot of business owners just kind of flailing, like just flailing, not knowing how to anchor in to building their own brand.

Kelly Roach: And that's a really dangerous thing because you'll take yourself out of business, right? There's a million people that can put up a bio in 30 seconds and say, they do exactly what I do. They can do the same with you and with every person listening. And so I saw business owners really falling into these like dangerous traps to try and stand out, whether it was like copying other people's brands or just following the latest trends and fads that they're seeing on TikTok or Instagram or whatever the case.

Kelly Roach: And I really wanna emphasize like there's no right or wrong. Like in however you wanna do the marketing for your brand. I'm not here to tell anyone, do this, don't do that. What I am here to say is. You [00:22:00] have a unique calling, you have a unique, why. Don't go position yourself as the second best version of someone else.

Kelly Roach: That's the only thing you can do wrong is not honoring the DNA of your own business, not honoring the DNA of your own brand. And so I wanted to help business owners to understand how they could identify their core belief system, their convictions, how they could really get clear on. Well, how am I different and, and what makes me different?

Kelly Roach: And how do I share that in an authentic and meaningful way that builds my legacy body of work versus doing stupid crap that you're gonna regret later? Right. I mean, just to be completely transparent and you know, obviously there's a huge what's in it for me because I teach business owners how to scale their brands online.

Kelly Roach: So I want my clients and my audience to be more successful at understanding how to build a category of one brand. I saw that pretty much everything that people were [00:23:00] doing was great for short-term clicks and short-term conversions, but not great for actually building a business of substance and significance that will stand the test of time.

Kelly Roach: And so the goal of the book is to give a framework that people can follow to not build a brand that looks like mine, not build a brand that looks like yours to literally walk away from the book like. Holy shit. Like I have a unique calling, a unique set of DNA, a unique set of beliefs and convictions, and I can do this my own way without compromise.

Hala Taha: Hmm. I, I have to say, I was reading your book and I was like, yes, yes, yes. Everything that I was reading, I was like, you are so right. I never thought of it, you know, in the way that you outlined it in your framework, but I agree with everything that you say, and I can't wait to dive really deep on some of the steps, uh, you know, to get to be that category of one.

Hala Taha: So let's talk about the five essential steps that you outline in your book. Can you walk us through them at a high level? 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, definitely. So, [00:24:00] I mean, let's start at, at the very beginning, a very good place to start, right? The, the first thing is, you know, I, I think you have to. Step away from the copy paste trap.

Kelly Roach: And you have to put yourself in a position to really say, I am going to be the best version of me and only me, versus the second best version of someone else. So I, I would say like, first things first, let's just like set a baseline of like, we're gonna go to market in a unique way that represents who we are and what we're called to do.

Kelly Roach: And as a part of that foundation, it's really about identifying what your core convictions are. You have to know what you believe in order to make every decision in your business about how you're going to stand out and what you're going to do in order to achieve your financial and impact goals. And I know everyone listening has money that they wanna make and a difference that they wanna create.

Kelly Roach: And if you don't know what your anchors are, those, those things that you're gonna burn at the stake for are, you know, it's [00:25:00] gonna be really hard to do that. So the foundation is identifying and deciding. You're going to build your own brand, not someone else's. Right. And then marrying that with identifying your beliefs, your convictions, and you know, I think then people always have the question right about there's things that people do and don't feel comfortable talking about online.

Kelly Roach: And so I just wanna address that really quickly. I, I'm a hugely private person. I don't share my opinions about a lot of my personal belief systems online. Um, I don't share a lot of my personal life online. I have a 7-year-old daughter. Um, you know, my family life is like my everything. And I'm not the kind of person that like documents my lunch and like does all that stuff.

Kelly Roach: Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I'm sharing that because I think that when people hear conviction and when people hear beliefs, they're like, but I can't, you know? And it's like, no. You can have very deep convictions that are specifically related to the way that you do podcast [00:26:00] production.

Kelly Roach: You can have very deep convictions specifically about the way that you teach people to position their podcast. You can have very deep beliefs about any area of your business, right? That does not put you in a space of being controversial or being afraid you're gonna get your account shut down, or talking about things that you're uncomfortable talking about.

Kelly Roach: So I do wanna put that out there, 'cause I know that's always the question that people have. And you don't have to be controversial in order to stand out. You don't have to be controversial in order to be convicted, but you do need to have a belief system because otherwise, why would someone choose to work with you versus choosing to work with someone else?

Kelly Roach: And that's the problem. Everyone wants to say. Me too. Every marketer wants to say, oh yeah. Like everyone in my space is doing this. Yeah, we do that too. And we do it better. No one wants to hear that. Like everyone's heard that a million times. Like, don't tell me that you do that too. Tell me what you do differently.

Kelly Roach: Tell [00:27:00] me what you do. That is completely unique. Tell me what your thought process is that's actually different than the rest of your industry. That makes me say, oh, hey. Like, yeah, I, I wanna have a conversation and check out what you're doing. Right. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Let's pause there, because I know I just kind of covered a lot.

Hala Taha: No, I, I think that totally makes sense. I feel like a lot of people don't understand that you need to differentiate if you wanna succeed, and you need to be the solution for what people are looking for. And if you're out there saying, me too, then you're just copying everyone else and not really differentiating yourself.

Hala Taha: So totally agree there. Yeah. 

Kelly Roach: And then you have to really identify the gap. Right? This is something that I have been teaching for years, and I'll tell you that the business owners that really understand how to identify the gap in their industry, they become multimillion dollar successes very, very quickly.

Kelly Roach: In every industry, there is a wide open gap. Right. The best example that I can give that everyone can identify is the taxi industry, right? The taxi industry was like off the rails with so many issues [00:28:00] for decades. No one did anything about it, right? It was inconvenient. You could never get a taxi when you needed it, right?

Kelly Roach: We could go on and on and on. So in came Uber, they filled the gap and it was just like spontaneous combustion, right? And now look at that industry and people are even starting their own private. Car fleets where they have their own two, three cars that they're running out almost similar to like the Airbnb VRBO industry where they're literally like running out their own cars, right?

Kelly Roach: Because there's, there's a gap. And now, especially in like the luxury space, like people wanna, you know, they're going on vacation, right? You go to the normal car dealership, you're like, eh, I don't really want a Jeep Liberty on my vacation. I want like a Ferrari, right? So obvious. But the thing that's so interesting is that there is a gap in every industry.

Kelly Roach: There are big issues that no one has taken the time, no one has taken the concern, no one has taken the money to [00:29:00] innovate and create a solution to. I saw it in the coaching industry. I looked at every single one of my peers, and what did I say? They were all running these like massive programs where they were dumping people into a Facebook group.

Kelly Roach: They didn't have any team to support them. People couldn't get their questions answered. Someone would post a question in the Facebook group and there would be a hundred comments that just said, FI didn't know what that meant. And, and then I found out that meant following. So it's the blind leading the blind.

Kelly Roach: No one has any answers. Everybody's looking around. There's no coach to be found, and then we wonder why people are spending a hundred thousand dollars on coaching for their business, and they're right back where they started. So what did I do? I said, huh, I'm gonna build a full-time team of 30 support members.

Kelly Roach: I'm gonna have every single person that goes through my program have one-to-one support in addition to the group program that they're going through. They're gonna have accountability, they're gonna have accessibility. I took the whole model, flipped it on its head, my business exploded. There's a gap in every industry.

Kelly Roach: It's not hard. It's just instead of you [00:30:00] saying, how do I replicate what my industry is doing? You say, what are the issues in my industry and how do I step up to fill them or to fix them? 

Hala Taha: I love that. So let's move into your pyramid, if you wouldn't mind, because I feel like it's a good place to talk about it.

Hala Taha: So your pyramid is made up of three levels. The first level is how to marketing and then it's hope marketing and conviction marketing. So from my understanding, the how to marketing is really the foundational piece that you gotta start with to command credibility and authority. Talk to us about this, how-to marketing and how to do it effectively.

Kelly Roach: Yeah, absolutely. So how-to, marketing is the most basic element of marketing and it's typically the way that people enter your ecosystem. It's simple, it's easy to do. Anyone can do it costs you nothing. Record a quick video on your iPhone. Pop it on your stories. Pop it on your page, share it across different profiles.

Kelly Roach: Boom, you're doing how to marketing. This is literally a transfer of knowledge. It's where I'm showing you, Hey, Hala, I know how to do [00:31:00] something that I know you're interested in, in doing. I'm going to be your teacher. So all of a sudden, Hala watches my video. She spent two minutes with me. She's like, damn, I like this girl.

Kelly Roach: She just taught me how to do something I didn't know how to do. All of a sudden she's like, cool, okay. This is someone that I like. This is someone I trust, you know, whatever the case. So how to Marketing serves a really important purpose because when people are scanning the airwaves and when they're looking for new accounts to follow, and they're looking for new people to learn from, they want quick, digestible incentives.

Kelly Roach: Easy, okay? The problem is that's where most people stop. Now the problem with this is just like people are scanning the airwaves, looking for a quick, easy, actionable tip. They're doing that all day every day. It's called escapism, right? That's why people go online and scroll, and scroll and scroll. It's escapism.

Kelly Roach: So it's kind of like you got the girl, she said yes to the date, and now you're like, cool, I already had a date with that girl. Let me see. Oh, she's really cute over there. Right? And then someone, right? So the, the problem with how to marketing is it's a great way to get [00:32:00] people in your ecosystem. It's not a great way to keep them in your ecosystem.

Kelly Roach: And we have to remember what's the purpose of marketing? The purpose of marketing is to attract. So that you can nurture and finally convert people into paying customers. Well, if you miss this middle section of nurture, they never make it over here to conversion. And that's what's happening to a lot of marketers.

Kelly Roach: They, they pump out this how to marketing and this is, you know, a lot of people are doing their pointing and they're dancing and you know, they're lip syncing and all of those things. And that's fine. Do you have a way to then bring them through that process and finally get them to convert? Okay, so how to get some in, it doesn't keep them there.

Kelly Roach: We want you to not just do how to, but we wanna elevate from, okay, I see you as a credible teacher. I see you as an authority. Wonderful. Now let's elevate. Let's figure out how are we gonna get people to keep coming back? Well, if you notice in the [00:33:00] conversation that we're having here today, holla, we talked a lot about stories, right?

Kelly Roach: We talked a lot about experiences that I had. Experiences that you had, ways that we resonate with each other. We talked about failure, we talked about setbacks. We talked about patience and sacrifice. What did we just do? 

Hala Taha: Free out emotions. 

Kelly Roach: Exactly. So the people that are experiencing this show are going to say, you know what?

Kelly Roach: I've only been working at that goal for a year. I think I can keep going. Kelly kept going, Halla kept going. They both run these wildly successful companies. Now, maybe there's nothing wrong with me that I wasn't an overnight success in six months. Maybe if I stick with it, I am gonna achieve my goals after all.

Kelly Roach: Okay, now we're on to something. Right. And this is why, of course, podcasting is so powerful. It's such an amazing medium for Hope Marketing. So Hope Marketing is the biggest chunk of your pyramid, and this is where you really connect with your audience in an emotional and a [00:34:00] sensitive way where people are like, you are not just a teacher.

Kelly Roach: You're not just an authority figure. You are my friend. You are my confidant. You are my cheerleader. You are the person that has been in my shoes. You understand everything that I've gone through. You understand everything I'm going through now. And you cross the bridge to the other side. So Hope marketing is really about reaching down, grabbing your audience, and like wrapping your arms around 'em and saying like, no, you're not quitting.

Kelly Roach: You're coming with me on this journey. I'm gonna support you every step of the way I've been there. You can get there too. And hope marketing is really what's gonna keep people coming back. I call it like the stickiness factor of your brand. It's the thing that really makes people feel deeply connected to you as a person.

Kelly Roach: Not just as a marketer that can give instruction, but as a human being that has feelings been. Right. 

Hala Taha: Does that make sense? Oh my gosh. Totally makes sense. And I can attest to this. I mean, when I go on a podcast for example, and share my [00:35:00] story, that's when I get all these people like, you know, hitting me up, asking to do business with me and things like that because they feel so emotionally connected.

Hala Taha: They could see any sort of PowerPoint slides about my results or whatever, but that wouldn't seal the deal. It's about liking the person and feeling connected with the person that you wanna work with, which is so key. So what are some other actionable ways that we can bring this emotion to our branding?

Hala Taha: Aside from the obvious ones, which is like social media posts and you know, having a podcast where you tell your personal story, 

Kelly Roach: it's literally you can do it with anything. I mean, you, you can tell stories. I, I mean, for me, a lot of times, even when I do like Instagram stories or Facebook stories, like I'm literally just giving like encouragement.

Kelly Roach: It's encouragement, it's, it's, you know, it's sharing mistakes, it's sharing setbacks that you've worked through. Um, I think one of the things that's most endearing when you're a teacher that you know, wants people to want to work with you is not when you just show your highlight reel of all of your greatness and [00:36:00] all of your wonderful accomplishments, but instead when you say, listen.

Kelly Roach: I failed at this and I failed at this, and I failed at this, and this is what I learned from it. And this is who I became and this is why I'm successful today. And these are all the things that you can skip over that you don't have to go through. 'cause I did, and I'm gonna tell you what to do instead. So I think it, it can be in podcasts, it can be in in live streams, it can be in videos, it can be in emails, it can be in posts on social media stories, right?

Kelly Roach: It can be from the stage, it can be from behind the microphone, anywhere that you connect with your audience. It can be in a, in a book, right? And, and you know, and a book any way you want. But the bottom line is it's going from transaction, which is not emotional and it doesn't have staying power too relational, which now is what once creates that desire, that stickiness factor in the brand for people to wanna stay with you.

Hala Taha: Yeah. And then I think there's another mistake that people make in all this is. Just focusing on hope marketing alone and not doing any of [00:37:00] the informational how to stuff. So talk to us about that. 

Kelly Roach: Amen. And hallelujah. Yes, all the time. And well, and that's why I wanted to actually give the illustration and the exercises in the book about the pyramid because it's not about swinging the pendulum from one side to the other.

Kelly Roach: It's about understanding how these things work together, right? There's so many people that it's like their entire brand is just fluff. And it's like, what do you even do? Like why are we even like, get outta my feet. Like what? Why are you even here? Like, what is this? I don't understand what the context of this soft, like just fluff is all the time.

Kelly Roach: So I completely agree with you. Like there has to be an intelligence to. What is it that you teach? What is it that you do? There's a lot of people that go so deep in the, in the wrong direction that literally you don't even know what their business is. Right? If I go to your social media and I, and I don't even understand what your offer [00:38:00] is, what your business is, what it is that you do, like, that's a problem, right?

Kelly Roach: So again, the pyramid is about, you know, think about it like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Like, you work your way through the pyramid. You don't say, oh, I'm gonna pull out this one piece of the pyramid and, and that's gonna make me happy and fulfilled. No, right? Each of the pieces of the pyramid go together.

Kelly Roach: So I'm really happy you brought that up, Hal. 

Hala Taha: Totally. Uh, one more thing about how to marketing that I think is important. If you're gonna do how to marketing, isn't it true that you should really focus on a couple things and not just do, like how toss about everything in your industry, because then nobody's gonna know what you're really about.

Kelly Roach: Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. I mean, this goes back to what we were talking about, you know, at the beginning of the show where this lack of patience is the number one saboteur for small business owners. I mean, I see so many businesses that one day they're marketing this, and then the next day you see them marketing something that has nothing to do with [00:39:00] that other thing, and you're like, so now you're expert of nothing.

Kelly Roach: You're literally expert of nothing. The more that you keep changing your messaging over and over and over again, we'll talk about this also with the conviction, the top of the pyramid, but you keep changing what you're talking about all the time, and you're doing how to marketing on things that have nothing to do with the core anchors of your brand.

Kelly Roach: Of course, that's gonna create a confused mind. And a confused mind always says no. Right, so that's a great point. 

Hala Taha: I totally agree. She is dropping bombs right now. I would advise everybody to go rewind that part back and now we're gonna move to the top level of the pyramid, which is like the elite level.

Hala Taha: You can't get to it until you finish steps one and two, how to and hope, and then you can be, you know, top of your field if you can get conviction marketing, right? So talk to us about what that definition is and what that is. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, it's absolutely true. So the way that you wanna think about it is at the bottom of the pyramid, you're a teacher, right?

Kelly Roach: You're, you're giving [00:40:00] tips, you're giving strategies, you're giving how-tos you are demonstrating that you have knowledge and expertise that your audience does. And therefore, you're in a position of authority in the second category. Now you're their confidant, you're their friend, you're someone that they wanna hang out with, they wanna have a glass of wine, a cup of coffee, you know, they wanna have a beer with you.

Kelly Roach: They're someone that you like, so they know you now and they like you, right? And, and you are kind of like that cheerleader, that friend that they kind of wanna stay connected to. But let's talk about how we get from the friend category, right? To the mentor, the trusted advisor category, because you aren't just gonna give your friends money, right?

Kelly Roach: You are gonna give your money to the mentor that you believe is gonna change your life. And when you asked earlier about the people that are just focused on hope marketing, that's a big problem. That's why a lot of people struggle to convert because they literally put themselves square in that friend category.

Kelly Roach: You're not gonna go buy from the person that you like the most. You're gonna go buy from the person that you think is gonna change your life, that's gonna [00:41:00] solve your biggest problem. That's going to make the biggest difference that you're gonna get the biggest transformation from. So conviction marketing is about stepping into that role of trusted mentor.

Kelly Roach: It's about stepping into that role of your greatest advisor, right? When you think about the category that you're in, you wanna own that word in the mind of your audience. You want to own that category in the in the mind of your audience. And conviction is the only thing that's gonna do that for you.

Kelly Roach: Conviction is what's gonna lead to conversions. I would write that down. Conviction equals conversions. What does it mean to be convicted? It means to be so strong and so powerful in a set of beliefs, right? It's about beliefs. And when you think about conviction, why is conviction important, and why do so many marketers struggle to convert?

Kelly Roach: Because they're not convicted? Because they're so worried about what everyone else is doing, and the things that they're saying aren't really their authentic message. They're someone else's message that they're trying to make their own. [00:42:00] It's very difficult to have conviction when you're saying things that aren't grounded from like your heart and your soul that aren't a part of who you are, that aren't so deep in your belief system that every area of your business from.

Kelly Roach: Your messaging, your marketing, the way that your offer is delivered, the way that you service your clients, the focus of your programming, the result that you provide. Conviction marketing is about taking a set of core beliefs and infusing them in every single element of your brand so that when anyone interacts with you, they understand that you believe above all else, that these elements must be present and that they expect a certain experience, they expect a certain result.

Kelly Roach: They feel confident that they are going to achieve a certain outcome when they. Open up their wallet and give you their credit card because you are so convicted, you have such a high level of belief about the result that you're going to provide and the [00:43:00] why of how you provide that result. And this is why in the book we start off with identifying your belief system and then talking about how that materializes in your brand, identifying the gap in your market, and then really getting clear on how you're going to fill the gap in the market.

Kelly Roach: Like these are actual exercises that you do in the book, because you might have to do a little self work to do this. This is about slowing down and killing the on back a little bit. And I think that, you know, and I know I felt this way when I first started in the online space. I felt a little scared to lead with conviction because I was no one, and I had no clients, and I didn't really know how the heck am I gonna get someone to wanna buy from me when I'm a nobody, when everyone else in my space is over here talking about this and doing this.

Kelly Roach: But it actually doesn't work that way. It, it actually works when, when people interact with you, the number one thing that they're saying is, do I believe this [00:44:00] person? Like, do I believe this person? Like, do I trust you? Do I trust that linking arms with you is going to make my life better? Do I believe that by giving you my money, this result is going to happen?

Kelly Roach: It's all about believability. So if it's all about believability, you better know what your convictions are and you better be able to say those convictions with a level of confidence and certainty. That is going to go from this warm and fluffy brand that people think, oh, I learned a lot from this person.

Kelly Roach: Oh, I really like this person. They've been through a lot. They really inspire me to know this person is pretty certain that they're the best in the world at what they do, and I leave 'em. So I'm gonna pull out my credit card and, and spend my money to work 

Hala Taha: What keeps floating in my head every time while you're talking is that if you are gonna move to the conviction marketing, [00:45:00] you really actually have to be an expert of your industry. 'cause it doesn't allow you to not be an expert. I see too many people, for example, trying to like make it in the podcast industry and they don't even know how the podcast industry works.

Hala Taha: And I'm like, how are you even trying to succeed in this industry if you don't even take the time to understand it? And to your point, understand the gaps and how you would fill them. So it forces you to really know your industry and really know your stuff. Whereas the other things you could get away with like learning one little thing and like seeming like you know your stuff.

Hala Taha: You actually need to know your entire industry and the ins and outs of it to be good at conviction marketing. And then I think a lot of people, if they are experts, they might go about it in the wrong way where they just keep shouting from the rooftops what's wrong, instead of shouting what they should be doing to make it right.

Hala Taha: So talk to us about that. 

Kelly Roach: I wanna peel that back a lot because those are really great points. So number one, this is what I love about conviction marketing. You can't do conviction marketing if you're not an expert. So [00:46:00] you better either become an expert or you better get yourself into a business where you are actually an expert.

Kelly Roach: I mean, just like you said, you see that with podcasting. I see that with business strategists. There's like teenagers that teach business coaching now, and I'm like, help me.

Kelly Roach: When you are talking about using this pyramid to create marketing that leverages all three of these capacities, you simply can't execute on what I'm talking about. If you don't have the skillset to do it, it will show through. It will be so obvious, right? So it's beautiful because it forces you either to get better.

Kelly Roach: Or to understand why you are better, right? One or the other. One or the other. You gotta do one or the other. So I, I definitely agree with that. And then, yeah, I did address that in the book, and I, I do have a concern about that. You know, I see a lot of people kind of get bitter, um, about, you know, the competition in their space or about what they see going on with other [00:47:00] people or about trends that they see in their industry.

Kelly Roach: And they kind of have a lot to say about like, what's wrong. And, you know, I talk about this in the book, there's chapter about this. This isn't about like complaining and like shouting from the rooftops about what's wrong. This is about like get off your butt and do something about it. Like this is about calling you out and saying, okay, you believe it can be better.

Kelly Roach: You believe it can be different. How are you making it better? How are you making it different? What are you doing that's addressing those things? When I saw the coaching space and I was like, this isn't fair, and this isn't right, that these people think they're going into these coaching programs and their life is gonna change, and then they get in there and they're totally lost.

Kelly Roach: There's no one accessible, there's no one available. There's no one to help them. I didn't start creating all this content talking about like the coaching industry sucks and there's no support for people, and I didn't say a word. I literally was like, here's what I'm doing about it, and I did it. And then I sold what I was doing [00:48:00] and our business exploded.

Kelly Roach: So this isn't about pointing out or calling out what other people are doing wrong. This is about identifying well, what do you think could be done better or different? Go and do it. And don't run your mouth about it, you know, share what you're actually doing. And so it is about critical thinking and it is about going the extra mile.

Kelly Roach: And I say this all the time, at the extra mile is so not crowded. It's crazy. Like it's not crowded. So it's really, really busy down here, but like as you clang the ranks, it becomes easier and easier to stand out because people are like, there's nothing that compares because most people aren't willing to go the extra mile, 

Hala Taha: right?

Hala Taha: Mm. Mm-hmm. I totally agree. So, okay, let's talk about how to actually come up with our convictions and talk about some actionable strategies to do that, because from my understanding, it's really about identifying the gaps, then figuring out what's wrong, and then reframing that to how you're gonna make [00:49:00] it better.

Hala Taha: So can you kind of just walk us through some steps we should take? 

Kelly Roach: Yeah. The first thing to do is to really take yourself all the way back to the beginning of when you decided to get into business. And the most important thing is hopefully you are a consumer in your own space or have been at some point, right?

Kelly Roach: So go all the way back to the beginning of your experience doing what you do and really ask yourself what was the thing that compelled you more than anything to kind of throw your hat in the ring and say, I'm gonna start a business doing. X, right? Typically, when we decide to go into a certain space, there's something that we believe to be true.

Kelly Roach: There's something deep that's driving us that makes us feel that we can do something better or different, or at least that can compete with all of the millions of other people that are doing the same business we're doing in in their own way, right? And so it's really going back to the very beginning and saying, well, what compelled you [00:50:00] to even start this business?

Kelly Roach: What made you to decide that you are gonna dedicate your life to doing this thing that you're doing? And that's a great place to start because there's usually a pretty deep why there for people. But what happens is we get into our business and we're like starry-eyed, and we're so excited and we're so optimistic, and we have all these big ideas, and we have this grand plan for what we're gonna do.

Kelly Roach: And then life like hits us like a map truck, right? Because we realize, oh my gosh, this is hard. And when, when we realize this is hard, that's when key people start to push aside their, their deep passion, their deep conviction, their big why, and they start scrambling to kind of like keep up with and do what's being done already, because they wanna be competitive.

Kelly Roach: So you need to kind of like, almost like clean your palate. I'll say let go of those things and return to the very beginning of what compelled you to get started in the first place. What was your big why? What made you say, I'm gonna [00:51:00] dedicate my life to doing this thing that I'm doing? That's your foundation.

Hala Taha: Beautiful. So I wanna move on to the third step of your framework, which we haven't talked about at all, and that's building your tribe. Uh, so I know we only have about 10 minutes left or or less. So tell us about building your tribe and, and what are the components of that? 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, absolutely. So when you think about stickiness, which stickiness is the only way that you're gonna get from the attraction all the way over to the conversion again.

Kelly Roach: So what's the point of all of this? The point is we want to help you to be more effective at attract, attracting people into your ecosystem, and ultimately converting them into paying clients. We wanna help you make your dreams come true. That means that you need to be really good at creating a stickiness factor because it can take people sometimes three months, six months, nine months.

Kelly Roach: A year, a year and a half, uh, to work their way through your ecosystem. Some people are gonna buy in a day, some people are gonna buy after studying you for years at a time, right? So there has to be a stickiness factor. The stickiness factor [00:52:00] a lot of times is the tribe that you create. It's the community.

Kelly Roach: It's the brand. And this is about having common beliefs, common language, common ways that you think about the world. Common values, right? Which again, of course go back to conviction. So you wanna think about how are you creating community? What is the belief system of your community? What's kind of the code of ethics?

Kelly Roach: How do you interact with each other? What's the language that you use? What do you believe in your community? And what are the pillars of this community? Right? And when you think about that, usually in any really tight-knit community, there's something that people are raging against and there's something that people are fighting for.

Kelly Roach: And so what you wanna think about is what's the common language that you're going to create that you're gonna get everyone to kind of use and operate with? So it's like we have this thing between us that is common and sacred. What is it that you're going to be rallying [00:53:00] against? And what is it that you're going to be fighting for?

Kelly Roach: And again, we're not rallying against people, we're not disparaging other brands, right? We're, we're playing nice in a sandbox, you know, but, but you have to understand what it is that you're trying to create a distinction around. You have to be really, really clear. When I launched the live launch, uh, method and I started teaching that what I really was rallying people against was the complexity of technology.

Kelly Roach: I said, look, I'm gonna teach you how to launch from your phone with no tech tools, no slides, no outside tech team, no pre-recording, none of that stuff. You're gonna throw it all out the window and you're just gonna show up live for nine days and you're gonna convert a million dollars. And, and that's what we were rallying people against is this, this complexity that was standing in the way of people being able to actually focus on connecting with their audience, which is why they couldn't convert.

Kelly Roach: 'cause they're managing slides and pre-recorded and doing all these other things. So again, this [00:54:00] is, we're clean. We're gonna keep it clean. You always wanna think about building a legacy body of work that you'll be proud of 5, 10, 15 years from now. But you have to understand the operating reality of your people.

Kelly Roach: What are you fighting against and what are you fighting for? Right? And make that a, a common language. And it common energy and, you know, get everyone in a space where they don't wanna disconnect from you and they don't wanna disconnect from your community because they feel a sense of belonging. They feel a sense of shared values, they have common language, and again, they feel like their life is going to be enhanced as a result of staying connected to this community.

Hala Taha: Could you just give us a few examples of this language aspect that you're talking about? Because I just wanna make sure that's clear. 

Kelly Roach: Yeah, it can be anything. It can literally be anything. So like for me, I picked the word unstoppable and I literally defined the word unstoppable. And like people will refer to me and they'll say she's [00:55:00] the unstoppable girl, right?

Kelly Roach: 'cause because I started so many years ago talking about this word unstoppable, and I defined it as you know, you are unstoppable if you're a person that despite setbacks and challenges and chaos and turbulence and every reason that you can make an excuse to fail. That you decide to keep fighting for your dreams anyway, and you don't stop taking action until you accomplish them.

Kelly Roach: And I literally talked about this hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. I wrote a book named Unstoppable. I built the names of my groups around it. I built the name of my program around it. So it literally created this tribe mentality of people that suffered setbacks, went through the challenges, went through all these things, but believed so deeply in their goals and dreams that they're making them come true.

Kelly Roach: Anyway, you can pick any word, you can pick any language, you can pick anything you want, but again, this is about taking a step back and not trying to be or do [00:56:00] or compare or compete with anyone. It is literally what are the words that you wanna build your ecosystem around? What is the mentality that you wanna have as a shared mentality amongst you and ultimately your clients?

Kelly Roach: What do you want that relationship to be? 

Hala Taha: Yeah, and I think it also kind of makes it like exclusive because it's like, only if you know, you know, like for example, all my listeners are called Young and profits. And so it's like you only know that if you listen to the show and, and all the other young and profiteers know that they're young and profiteers, you know?

Hala Taha: So I feel like it's also that common language that kind of bonds everyone in the community so that it really feels like a tribe. So whether that's like some framework that you came up with that has a specific name or phrase, uh, so I totally agree there. Even your word conviction marketing is, is like one of your tribe words, I think.

Hala Taha: So we don't have time to get into steps four and five of your framework, so everybody out there make sure you go grab conviction marketing February 22nd. Is there anything you [00:57:00] wanna round out before we move on to the last question of the day? 

Kelly Roach: No, I would just say yeah, absolutely. If, if. Standing out and becoming a category of one brand is important to, you know, that there's a framework to do it.

Kelly Roach: It's gonna take a little courage, right? But it's accessible to everyone. 

Hala Taha: Love it. Okay, so the last couple of questions that I ask all my guests is, first, what is one actionable thing we can do today to become more profiting tomorrow? 

Kelly Roach: Connect with a human being about your business. I too many times I ask business owners that tell me that they wanna grow.

Kelly Roach: And I'll say, well, how many prospects did you actually get on video or send a a message to or connect with this week? And it's like, zero. So just go talk to another human being. 

Hala Taha: Love it. Great advice. And what is your secret to profiting in life? 

Kelly Roach: Alignment. It's doing what I say I'm going to do and acting in alignment with what I wanna experience.

Kelly Roach: Very 

Hala Taha: clear crystal answer. Thank you so much, Kelly. I loved this [00:58:00] conversation. I admire you. Thank you so much for your time. 

Kelly Roach: It was an awesome conversation, and you guys can get on the wait list for the book at conviction marketing com. Thank you so much for having me. 

Hala Taha: Thank you so much, Kelly. 

Hala Taha: