[00:00:00] So when it comes to money, mindset is everything. Let's talk about perspective because I know that you believe that having like a balanced, accurate view of the world is important so that you can make good financial decisions. Um, we tend to be the past as the golden age.

Hala: We're always wishing that it could go back to the way that it was. And we tend to look at the future, very pessimistically. Um, but you say life is actually better than it has ever been. Uh, so tell us the good news. Why is life so much better now than it was yesterday? And how can that help us, uh, get into the mindset in making good financial decisions?

Peter: Yeah, there's just something about the human condition that we find a way to be pessimistic. When everything tells us all the facts. Point to constant progress and optimism. I mean, it's kind of amazing. I think it's funny that when people use like this phone, we call it a phone, but it's a super computer that can basically do things that you used to need a hundred things or a thousand things to do back in [00:01:00] all the way back in 2007, you know, you needed to have an Atlas and an alarm clock and a calculator.

Peter: And I mean, there's all we can do everything on this phone has more technology than, than what was used to land on the moon. Um, and we'll use that phone to go complain about how bad things are today online. Right? It's just, it's so crazy. And sometimes we'll do it while we're having lunch, where we might have a salad that 15 different farms were involved in getting that salad on our table and we're paying less for it adjusted for inflation than people did.

Peter: 50 years ago, we find a way to complain despite things being not. But beyond the wildest dreams of everyone on earth 50 years ago. So there is no good old days. I mean, we've been around for tens of thousands of years. Only a lately insane person would say I would rather be alive in the 18 hundreds or the 15 hundreds or thousands or whatever.

Peter: Back when there wasn't plumbing and heating and cooling and [00:02:00] all the wonderful food we get to eat. I mean, just, we can go see each other much more easily. Everything about the world today is. But we were attracted to bad news. We're attracted to negativity. It's much more easy to sound smart if you're pessimistic than optimistic and the media knows this and they feed into all of those natural biases that we have.

Peter: But if you look at everything it's stunning, the speed. Let's just take music as an example. I mean, it used to have to be live. And then we got to the eight track and records and we got to cassette tapes. Then we got to CDs and then we got to MP3. Now, you know, we can get any song. Pretty much ever published in one second.

Peter: Right? Instantly in our, in our hand, this was impossible to imagine 15 years ago, and we could do the same thing with movies and we can save all quality of life from the average size of a home, to the amount of money we have to spend on food versus things we enjoy to the amount of money we all make adjusted for inflation by every measure, [00:03:00] the world is better today than it used to be and where it ties into investing in.

Peter: Investing is really a bet on the future, right? So if you bet the future is going to be bad, you're not going to invest in things like stocks and you're going to do very poorly. But if you accept not optimism, but reality that the future probably is going to be better than today. Just like every 50 year period tends to be.

Peter: If we look 10 years down the road, 20 years 30, or is it going to be better? Most certainly, probably we'll be right. And if you believe that, then it becomes easier to be a good investor and not get shaken up by all the noise that. 

so it's so clear that things are drastically improving and I want to touch on one point, um, that you made just a little earlier in terms of the. Let's talk about the media and the news for a second, in terms of shaping our perspectives. Um, in the book, you mentioned that like really media is a for-profit industry, right?

Hala: Um, they're there to make money, not necessarily to inform. So tell us more about that and why that's a problem in terms of, you know, how it shapes our [00:04:00] mind and, and behaviors for 

Peter: investing. Well, we think about how the media makes money. So the media wakes up every day and they have a fiduciary obligation.

Peter: To make money for their shareholders. So if you're a publicly traded company, you have a legal obligation to your shareholders. So those are the people that own the stock in the company. Well, what do we look at? NBC ABC, CBS MSNBC, Fox CNN, all of these places are part of publicly traded companies, which means they wake up every day going, how do we maximize our return to shareholders?

Peter: Well, how do these places make them. They sell advertising. They don't make money from news. They sell advertising. How do you get more money from advertising? Well, you have to have more viewers. A show with 10,000 viewers is going to be able to charge an advertiser more than a show with 1000 viewers Coca-Cola will play more money to hit more people more frequently.

Peter: Right? So now how are they going to get more viewers? Well, they have to have content that brings people back. Well, we know people are attracted to negative news. More than [00:05:00] positive news. It's just a fact in there and negative news is more effective. It's why for every positive ad campaign, you'll see by either party in politics, seven will be negative.

Peter: People respond to the negativity more. Unfortunately it works. They don't spend the money on negative ads just to be mean they're doing it because it works. So the same thing with the news. So the weather channels ratings are higher when the weather is terrible. And if it's a question. The weather channel is not going to put people at ease, right?

Peter: The weather channel is going to keep this narrative going as long as possible, because it means more eyeballs on the screen, which makes the ratings better, which gets more advertisers, which makes more money for the shareholders and they've fulfilled their fiduciary obligation. So if you can. Focus on that when it comes to investing, you know, that when you're watching financial media or reading financial media, there's a tremendous incentive for them to make everything into a narrative, into a story, into a news cycle, into a crisis that keeps you coming back for more, just kind of like a soap opera.

Peter: And there is a [00:06:00] tremendous, tremendous disincentive that can't be over. To calm anybody down. And so I think if you, if investors understand that they're less likely to make investment mistakes. Anyway, the side benefit is if all of us understand that we're less likely to make, just get all worked up about everything all of the time, you know?

Hala: Yeah. So then tell us, you say. Now it's better than ever to be an investor, at least a globally diversified investor. So tell us about that. Like, why is now, I know you just kind of set the stage, but really drill at home. Like why is now the best time to start investing? Well, 

Peter: if you think about what drives the market, the market likes to see technology and innovation.

Peter: So they want to see are things getting better. That make things easier. We know that there as there are advancements, there's this myth that. Kilz jobs and it doesn't kill jobs at all. In the 18 hundreds. One in two of us were farmers, you know, today it's less than one in 20, but we have more farm output and the job unemployment stayed the same.

Peter: We then if you go back to 1950, [00:07:00] One in four of us was in manufacturing today. It's less than one in 20. Yet we produce more goods through manufacturing because of technology and unemployment has stayed the same. So the quality of life of everybody gets better with these advancements, but those things also drive markets.

Peter: We need innovation to drive markets. So one, you have to ask yourself, am I living at a time in history? Where there are advancements with technology and innovation, any rational person has to say yes to that. The second thing we need is we need people to buy this stuff. So we need the demographics to come into play.

Peter: Well, we know over the next 10 years, we have 1.2 billion people emerging from poverty, all over the. Well, what do those people do when they emerge from poverty? I hope they might buy Nike shoes. They might go to McDonald's. They might go to Walmart. These are all publicly traded companies. It gets reflected in the markets.

Peter: So if we look objectively at demographics and innovation and technology, we have to say, not only is it a good time moving forward, but literally the, maybe the best time ever to be alive with those factors [00:08:00] mattering to that. 

Hala: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. One thing that I want to talk about next is the SMP 500.

Hala: So, um, last time we talked, we talked about how the S and P 500 was a great thing to invest your money in. And that typically, um, you know, year over year, it's an average. Eight to 10% return on your money. When you invest in the S and P 500 in this book, you guys mentioned, uh, something about the loss decade.

Hala: Um, so that's between 2000 and 2009, a full 10 years, the S and P 500 produced 0% returns. This is much different than what I had thought. I thought the S and P 500 was like safe, no matter what, you put your money in there. And you're good. Right. And I think a lot of people think that, and we've been kind of.

Hala: Taught that. And it's been like drilled down our throats the past couple of years in terms of, you know, young people investing their money. You've got to do this and be 500 blah, blah, blah. So tell us why, you know, this isn't exactly true. And like why we need to [00:09:00] diversify in order to mitigate any risks with, uh, putting our money in the S and P 

Peter: 500.

Peter: Well, nothing goes straight up in the S and P 500. Definitely does not go straight up. So if you, if you invest in the, in the market S and P 500 today, the odds you'll have a positive return a year from now, or three out of four 75%. That's pretty good. No one wants to bet their life savings on 75%. But if you leave it in the market for three years, five years, your odds moved to 93%, 95%, 10 years, 98% plus.

Peter: So it's really, you've got to invest it and spend the time in there. And you've got to know that corrections are going to happen about every year. There's a correction. A correction is a drop of about 14% or more some years like 20, 20, there's a bear market, which is a drop of 20% or more. The average bear markets, 34%.

Peter: Believe it or not. With the coronavirus crisis, the market dropped exactly 34%. It felt much worse because it was the fastest drop in history to that level. Uh, and there was a lot of uncertainty and it involved health, which is obviously the only thing to many people scarier than, than losing their money.

Peter: But in terms of depth, the [00:10:00] average bear market, but like you just pointed out, there are very long periods of time where the market does not perform. So from 2000 to 2010, that same has to be. Earned zero. Something that normally would average six to 11% a year average, zero per year, over 10 years. But over the same time period, international stocks were way up small stocks in the U S are way up small stocks, overseas, Royal emerging markets, real estate and bonds were way up.

Peter: So that's the importance of having your eggs spread out in several different baskets instead of all in just one. 

Hala: Yeah. Um, in that book, you have a story of, I think it's Tony's story about his friend, Jason, do you know that story? And can you share that with us so that our listeners can really understand the point of diversification and its importance?

Peter: Well, I think Jason had had I'm familiar with this person. He had had a very big. Uh, with real estate and he really just thought he couldn't lose because history told him he can't lose and it kept going and going and going. And he just was one of [00:11:00] those people that really wanted to have an entourage around him all the time and have a lot of things, had a lot of.

Peter: Um, a very public way of displaying his wealth. Ultimately he never diversified. And the story ended very tragically for him when the housing market and condo market blew up in the 2008, 2009 crisis. And had he just taken a little piece and diversified it, things would be a lot different. I mean, the more modern day story of that is someone has a bunch of money in the tech stock.

Peter: The tech stock takes off. If they hold it, will it keep going maybe for a while, but eventually every company. Does it sell fit, and you never know when that's going to be. And so always, we always encourage people, just take something and diversify it. So you're never at the mercy of having all your eggs in one.

Hala: Yeah, I think that makes sense. So the SMP 500 is really like us companies. So to mitigate that we would choose international companies to invest in or real estate, like you just mentioned, or other avenues bonds, whatever it is, um, something that diversifies your [00:12:00] portfolio so that if something does tank or doesn't improve in terms of your return, um, you have other options too, to make money.

Hala: So that makes sense. 

Hala: let's talk about compound interest and why that's so powerful. You have a great story in the book about Kodak that illustrates the power of compounding. Uh, would you share that story with us and how, you know, they almost created the first digital camera and.

Hala: Went wrong 

there. 

Peter: So the idea of compounding is that things are going to double and when things double, they happen very quickly. So you think about Kodak doubling the quality of an image, or most of us can identify with an iPhone, right? Like the speed with which the camera doubles or our internet speed would double or what we could hold on a laptop doubles and doubles and doubles and doubles.

Peter: And it gets to a point where it's absolutely stunning what it can do. And the same thing applies to me. You know, if you have $10,000 in year 20 and you just earned 7% or when you're a 30, it will double the 20,000. But when you're 40 it's 40,000. And when you're 50, it's [00:13:00] 80,000. And when you're 60, it's 160,000.

Peter: So that 10,000 has become 160,000. It's amazing what that power of compounding does because you're adding to a bigger number. Every time the concept drives a lot of technology innovate. It drives the speed with which we get technology, but also. Uh, it has a lot to do with money. And so your listeners, I know your audience is very young in general and they should really be thinking about setting aside something, no matter how small, as soon as they can to get the advantage of compounding on their side.

Hala: Yeah. Do you have any examples in terms of your clients who have done this really well and have used compounding to their advantage? 

Peter: You know, the, the reality is a lot of people that come to creative planning, they start out older, you start thinking about retirement, you know, when they're in their forties or later, and then they come to us and.

Peter: When we're fortunate enough to get those 20% of clients or so that are starting in their twenties or thirties. It's incredible. I mean, like all of their projections always work out because if you're saving for education or retirement and [00:14:00] things like that at such a young age, you have the biggest advantage that that exists when it comes to money, which is time.

Peter: The biggest advantage is time. If you don't have time, you've got to find a way. To come up with more money or change your objectives or push off your retirement or something else to make it work. And so if you've got somebody in their twenties or thirties, that's willing to start, they should just open an account and start saving as quickly as they can.

Hala: Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about outcomes. You mentioned this earlier, the importance of knowing exactly what you want. So tell us why is it so important to know exactly what we want before we actually start investing and start putting our money in stocks and things like that? 

Peter: A lot of us just think about when, when we, we wanna make a lot of money, that's what a lot of us think we want.

Peter: And so we then go to somebody or we do it on our own and say, I'm going to buy things that make a lot of money, but really we want to make a lot of money. You know, to do what is it to have 120,000 a year when you're 63, is it to [00:15:00] have the money to pay for someone's college? Whether it's a public school or private school for four years, are we going to cover room and board or not?

Peter: Is it because we want to give 10% of our money every year to charity or something different if we have those pieces in place, which should come first, if we know what the goal is, first, it becomes very easy to reverse engineer our way to, well, how do we. How do we put the pieces in place to make those things happen?

Peter: And sometimes those are aggressive investments. Sometimes they're not sometimes to increase the chance of hitting a goal. You get more conservative. So let's say you have somebody that's super lucky and they've got a million dollar. And they need 50,000 a year for the rest of their life. And they're retiring today.

Peter: Well, if they're super aggressive, they could actually screw up something that would work out just fine if they were moderately invested. So we really have to know what the objective is because the objective is not always a great, the biggest pile of money next year possible. It's usually to produce something you personally want, and then you back into the investments that make sense to get.[00:16:00] 

Hala: Yeah, let's clear up some definitions because I think people get these confused. What's the difference between financial independence and retirement? Like why are they actually different? 

Peter: Well, I think they're very different. So retirement is you're done working right. Uh, financial independence is you get up in the morning and whatever you're doing, it's because you want to do.

Peter: So if you go to work it's because you've feel fulfilled going to work. If you are doing two jobs, it's because you have to, if you're writing a book, it's because you have to, financial independence means you can walk out the door of your job, whatever you want and go, just do what are, you know, golf for swim or vacation or whatever it is you want to do every day.

Peter: So financial independence is a liberating feeling because it's hard to be anxious about anything when you know, you're choosing to do it. No one's making you do it. 

Hala: I think, I think that's helpful. It's helpful when you think of your outcomes, cause it's like, are you really planning for your financial independence or are you planning for your retirement?

Hala: They're two different things. [00:17:00] Okay. Cool. So in your, in your book, you talk about the need to have a number of plans in place. Before we ever start investing you talk about things like a net worth statement, retirement projections, education, projections, insurance, projections, risk management, estate planning.

Hala: So, so many different things that you cover. I don't think we're going to have time to cover all of them on the show, but what are some of the plans that we should really focus on before we ever start investing on. 

Peter: Well, I think you should at least have two or three things clarified. So I mean one you, what do you have today?

Peter: What are your assets and what are your liabilities? That's all when that worst statement is, oh, I own a condo. I have an IRA. I have a 401k, I have an investment account. I have a car, maybe that's the net worth statement. And, and then the liability side of the net worth statement might be, I have some student loans and I have a mortgage and I also money on my car.

Peter: And so the assets minus the liability, it gives us your. Some of those assets bring money to you and some take money away from you. So we have to distinguish between those two. So a house might be an asset on the [00:18:00] piece of paper, but really we pay to have the house every month, even if it's paid off, we've got taxes, maintenance, insurance, we're paying to have that asset.

Peter: Versus if we have an investment account or a rental property, that's paying us usually, you know, every month something. So we need to start with that. And then we just have to have some simple. When do you want to be financially independent? Do you want to pay for your kids' college? Are you trying to get a debt-free let's get two or three goals in place, and then let's say, okay, all these assets and liabilities in our net worth statement, how should we make those assets work for us to make those goals happen?

Peter: And how do we get the liabilities contained? So they don't get in the way of. 

Hala: Hm, you break it down so simply, but it seems so complicated at the same time. Um, so in terms of somebody helping us make these decisions, I know the importance of an independent financial advisor is very important. Could you tell us the difference between what a broker and an independent financial advisor is?

Peter: So a broker you about [00:19:00] 90% of advisors or brokers and brokers basically. Don't have a fiduciary obligation to act in their client's best interests all the time. So that would allow them to use their own products when their own product might be a little more expensive or sell an investment with a commission when there's a way to buy that investment commission free.

Peter: So about 90% of advisors fall in that bucket. And then about 10% are independent, independent advisors. Cannot make a commission on a mutual fund. For example, they wouldn't be able to sell a variable annuity for example. And I'm not saying those things are always bad. I'm just saying, well, I guess a conditional mutual fund is always bad, but most of the time they are.

Peter: And so I think that if you have that independent advisor, you at least have somebody who's legally obligated to pick the best investments they can for you. And that should, it's sad that that has to be the starting point, but that should be at least a starting point for choosing someone to. 

Hala: Yeah. And so for people around my age or younger, like when should we actually start thinking about having an [00:20:00] independent financial advisor?

Hala: Because from my perspective, it seems safer to do it by myself for now. Right. Um, so is that the right way to think, or is there like a certain benchmark we should hit before we actually go seek out an independent financial advisor? 

Peter: Think if you can get a great. You're almost always going to be better off with that adviser.

Peter: I think there's a reason that the higher net worth people go, the more likely they are to work with an advisor because the higher net worth tend to be, to know the difference that advisor can make. But the problem is most advisors will put you in a worse spot. So like, if you're just starting. It really is pretty simple.

Peter: Open an account, max out your retirement plans at work. If you can, whether it's with a 401k or open a Roth IRA and put as much money as you can enter into those things. And if you have debts that are high interest rate, like if you're paying more than 6%, whether it's credit cards or. Somehow you have a mortgage, your student loans or car loans at those rates pay those down before you invest, because you got a guaranteed six to 10 to 20% on those things.

Peter: If those rates are high, it doesn't make sense to go invest. If you've got credit card debt at [00:21:00] 15%, because you're never going to probably not get an investor in 15% year in and year out, you may as well take the guarantee of paying down the car. So getting the liabilities under control and maxing out of 401k and Rafael and investing in indexes is probably what most people that are just starting out need to do.

Peter: If they get over 50,000, a hundred thousand dollars, they really. Consider at least looking for an independent advisor. 

Hala: I think that makes sense. So you just mentioned a Roth IRA and it reminded me of something in your book. what tips do you have for somebody who actually works at a big corporation in terms of how they should invest their money and what advantages they should take? 

Peter: Well, some corporations, not all, but if any of your listeners are fortunate enough to work for a corporation that has a. They should definitely take advantage of the match.

Peter: So what I mean by that is if you have a 401k plan at work, it means you're allowed to put money away without paying taxes on that upfront. So let's say you're you have a listener they're making 80,000 a year. They pay taxes on 80,000, but let's say they take 10,000 and put it in the 401k. They won't pay [00:22:00] taxes on 80,000 because that 10,000 goes into the 401k before that.

Peter: So only pay taxes on 70,000. So that's a big advantage. Number one, I'm putting money in 401k. Yes. It's not going to be taxed today. It's not taxed until you withdraw it decades later. The second advantage is the money grows tax free. Um, and the third advantage is we get compounding on our side by doing it earlier, but some corporations make it even better than that.

Peter: And say, look, if you put some money in the 401k, we'll match it. So you might, they might say, look, the first 8,000 you put in there, we'll give you $8,000. Well, that's a hundred percent return on your money. So all of your listeners should basically go to their employer and say, is there a. If there is a match, they should add a minimum, put that much in their 401k plan immediately.

Peter: Uh, no matter what's going on with the rest of their net worth statement, they should be doing that. 

Hala: So even if like, um, because 401k, from my understanding, they're actually like investing it in other stocks and things like that. Right? So like, no matter what they choose to invest that money in, you're saying no matter.[00:23:00] 

Hala: And get, get the match. 

Peter: That's right. If there's a match, doesn't just definitely do it. And then from there, within the 401k, you get to pick as if the S and P 500 profess of the plan, or is it international stocks or bonds or real estate? The plan, if it's a good one, we'll have a multitude of options. Um, but definitely don't miss out on that map.

Hala: Cool. So the next topic I want to talk about is insurance. I think that millennials, we don't really talk about insurance. People tend to think about insurance when they're older, life insurance, things like that. What do we need to keep in mind when it comes to insurance in your perspective? 

Peter: So insurance is, if you don't have insurance, the plan can really, really blow up.

Peter: I mean, you can be on track for everything. If you die and you have a young family, young kids relying on you, what's going to happen to them. Yeah. Maybe you're on track to be retired when you're 60, but if you get hit by a bus when you're 28 and you've got two little kids, how are they going to go to school?

Peter: How's that house going to get paid off? How is your spouse going to continue to, to live or they have to pay for childcare at home, quit the job [00:24:00] what's going to happen. So you want to protect against that. With a term insurance policy, the term insurance just means you're buying insurance for a period of time or a term of times it's not permanent.

Peter: It doesn't stay with you your whole life, but if you're 30 and we know that your kids will be out of the house and your house will be paid for by the time your. And you'll have savings to take care of your spouse when you're 50. Well, we're not worried about 50 and later everything would be okay if you're around.

Peter: Then we just need insurance to get us from age 30 to 50. So we would buy a 20 year term insurance policy costs, very, very little, usually hundreds of dollars and solves a big, big problem. And you want to look at that through all parts of your life, whether it's about insuring against a disability or your home burning down or a car accident or whatever, we don't want the family to lose everything, all of their wealth, because.

Peter: Get some low-cost coverage to protect you again. Uh, really adverse situation. 

Hala: I think that makes sense. So this really drives the point home in terms of having to look at your financial plan, [00:25:00] like very holistically instead of in silos. Tell us more about that. Like what, what, what else do we need to consider when financial planning and why is it so important to look at the full picture and not.

Hala: Little 

Peter: silos. Well, if you think about it, what people really want is they want to be secure and accomplish their goals. But to do that, it's not just one thing. It's not just saving money. It's not just a 401k. It's not just insurance. It's all aspects of growing wealth. You know, what am I trying to do? How do I get there?

Peter: It's all the aspects of protecting your wealth. How do I not lose my wealth? Because of a problem that happened along the way, someone slipped and fell on the ice on my sidewalk, you know, how do I not lose all my wealth over that incident? And then it's how to transfer the wealth. Like if something happens to you early, whether it's an incapacity or death, how does that move in a low cost private way to other people?

Peter: And so all of those things are part of the same plan and we have to be thinking about all of them. It's not as complicated as it sounds. I break it down step by step in the path. But you really have to look at all of them because if one thing [00:26:00] goes wrong, it's enough to derail. 

Hala: Totally cool. So I think this was a great discussion in terms of the book.

Hala: Is there anything else that you want to drive home to my listeners or anything that you think we should touch on? 

Peter: You know, I've written in other books, the five mistakes, every investor makes, I wrote another book with Tony, a unshakeable. This one is really the first time I've written about step-by-step, you know, how to do all of these things.

Peter: And so I try to make it very, very clear. You know, here are the components of building wealth. Here are the components of protecting wealth. Here are the components of transferring wealth, and here are the things you need and why you need them to get them done. So hopefully I've laid that out really clearly.

Peter: I did my best to do that. And your listeners can pick up the path on Amazon or any bookstore. Um, and they can reach out to creative planning by going to our website, creative planning.com, or they can follow. LinkedIn Twitter or Facebook as well. 

Hala: Awesome. Yeah. I highly recommend it. I, you know, read it end to end.

Hala: I think it gives great strategies. A lot of [00:27:00] this stuff, we also covered back in episode number 72 in terms of like how the markets work. What's the difference between a bear market, a bull market. So I would definitely recommend to go back and check that episode out. The last question I ask all my guests is what is your secret to profiting in life?

Peter: I, so I view profiting in life as more just trying to enjoy life. And I think the secret is priorities. Just knowing, knowing what really matters. I, I feel like I know what matters to me and I focus. My time and energy and the things that I'm thinking about in my mind on those things, as much as I possibly can.

Peter: And it has resulted in me, you know, enjoying life a lot more than before. I really thought about it with that kind of clarity and just kinda got up and went about my day. And so I think at least for me, just really knowing what my priorities are, what I'm focused on has made a big deal. 

Hala: I think that's that's sound advice.

Hala: And it goes back to what you were saying before, really knowing your outcome so that you can have the right [00:28:00] plan so that you can, uh, effectively achieve those goals. I think that's great. Thank you so much, Peter. It's always such a pleasure to have you on young and profiting podcasts. We're so grateful to have had this conversation with you and, uh, we'll put the link for your book in our show notes.

Peter: Fantastic.